India Eyes China Tech For Railway Expansion

Discussion in 'Economy & Infrastructure' started by ankur26888, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. ankur26888

    ankur26888 Regular Member

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    After the telecom and power sector being benefited from Chinese supplies of instruments, India is contemplating leveraging Chinese experience through a “potential cooperation” in the railway sector. The two countries are slated to share their experience in expansion and management of railway network during the first two-day India- China Strategic Economic Dialogue, starting in Beijing on Monday. In fact, the chairman of the Railway Board will be accompanying the Indian delegation, led by Deputy Chairman of the Planning Commission Montek Singh Ahluwalia. The Chinese side will be led by Zhang Ping, the chairman of China’s National Development and Reform Commission. “Discussions during the 1st Strategic Economic Dialogue will focus on plan formulation and implementation in India and China, the global economic outlook, efficient use of water resources, energy efficiency and pricing and potential cooperation in the railway sector,” said a communique issued by the Ministry of External Affairs. Both sides had agreed to establish the dialogue platform during Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao’s visit to India late last year. Although both are among the top five largest railway networks in the world, India has been sluggish in expanding its network while China has made a determined progress and has set an ambitious expansion plan of high-speed rail network to connect the remotest parts of the country to its fastest growing regions by 2020. The Indian side is likely to use the dialogue forum to explore cooperation in this sector, particularly drawing lessons how to use cheap technologies to undertake massive expansion of the railway network.

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/India-eyes-cheap-China-tech-for-railway-expansion/851650/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2012
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  3. cir

    cir Senior Member Senior Member

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    Please don't.

    Chinese railway equipments are unsound and of low quality.

    Indian life is more important than saving billions of dollars and precious time.

    India should ask the Japanese or the Germans for the modernization fo its rail networks, especially high-speed railways.
     
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  4. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Probably not those that PRC uses inside the country, but definitely those locomotives given to Pakistan are unreliable and inefficient. They are not earning PRC a whole lot of reputation.

    Definitely, the Germans, French, Spanish and the Japanese make the best trains no doubt about that.
     
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  5. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    India must tread carefully.

    Made in China has not proved well for China itself, as far as railways go.

    Better to pay more elsewhere and better to be safe than sorry as cir has so wisely suggested!
     
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  6. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

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    I second that, Japanese would be better for HSR.
     
  7. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    From the above article
    This use of cheap technology is a big red flag. To me it seems that underhand deals have been struck already.
    The only reason why IR has not expanded has been that successive Railway Ministers have only announced new trains and money has never been spent on expansion of Track. Announcing new trains gives an immediate political boost while, building rail tracks is a long term process. For our politicians whose focus is from one election to another election, new tracks just do not come in their priority.
     
  8. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    That is why ministers lay foundation stones, so that by the time the project completes, even if he is not the minister, people will remember him.
     
  9. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Who can trust China for HSR technologies? Their railways are a disaster area that they try to bury the evidence... literally.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    We have far more deaths in Indian train accidents, and our trains are exactly HSR.

    Let's give credit to PRC where ti is due.
     
  11. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    The whole point is that when there is question of safety and the lives of the passengers concerned , IR should not be looking at cheap technology. They should focus on companies/countries which have the best combination of technology and a proven safety record.
     
  12. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    The point is China tries to bury the evidence. It isn't safe which is why they have cancelled over half of construction.
     
  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Is that typically China?

    They are after all picture perfect!
     
  14. ankur26888

    ankur26888 Regular Member

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    For expansion of indian we should also study and adopt technology of france railways which one of the most efficient railway system in all over the world
     
  15. ankur26888

    ankur26888 Regular Member

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    Railways in France Tourist and minor railways in France are covered in detail in a separate group of pages Mainland France The first public railway in France was officially
    opened on 1st October, 1828, a year after it had
    been brought into use and just three years after the
    opening of the pioneering Stockton & Darlington
    Railway in the United Kingdom. The French line ran
    from Saint-Étienne to Andrézieux, a distance of some 18km. It was built to the standard (1435mm)
    gauge that had by then become established in the
    United Kingdom. The first railway in the French capital ran from the
    Place de l’Europe (near the present Saint-Lazare
    station) to Le Pecq, a few km short of its eventual
    destination at Saint-Germain-en-Laye. In most countries, the “rule of the road” for trains is
    the same as for road traffic. For example, in
    England, where cars drive on the left of the road,
    trains run on the left hand of a pair of rail tracks,
    while in Germany, where cars drive on the right,
    trains use the right hand track of the pair. France is an exception to this rule. Cars drive on the right,
    but trains run on the left. This is because the early
    railways were mainly built using British expertise
    and standard equipment “out of the box”. No
    major operational problems are caused by this
    discrepancy, but it did give rise to an oddity: between the end of Franco-Prussian war of 1871
    and the end of the First World War, the provinces of
    Alsace and Lorraine formed part of the German
    Empire, and during this time their lines were
    converted to right-hand running. When the
    provinces were returned to France in 1919, right hand running was left in place. To cope with the
    change from left hand to right hand running at
    places where there was no necessity to stop for a
    border crossing, a number of flyovers or sauts de
    mouton (literally, “sheep jumps”) were installed
    whose sole purpose was to take one running line over the top of another in the opposite direction. The Paris Métro also runs on the right; this is
    believed to be because the first lines, opened at the
    beginning of the 20th century, were closely based
    on electric tram technology and operation. Paris
    trams of course had to run on the right when
    operating in the streets. Although the early railways were for the most part
    developed by private companies, there was close
    State regulation which meant that there was little of
    the unnecessary duplication of lines that arose in
    other countries, notably the United Kingdom. By the
    1870s, the bulk of the lines had been merged into just five companies: Est, Nord, PLM, PO and Ouest:
    organised around groups of lines radiated from the
    capital. A sixth group was owned and operated by
    the State. The Ouest company eventually got into
    serious financial difficulties and was taken over by
    the State in 1909. This situation continued until 1938, when all the remaining companies merged
    with the State system to form SNCF. Under EU regulations, train operation and
    infrastructure costs must be separately
    accountable. France, like many other European
    countries, has chosen to implement this by
    spinning off a separate infrastructure company
    (RFF). Local services of SNCF have also been decentralized, on a regional basis. However, all the
    companies involved are State owned, and there
    appears little movement towards the introduction
    of private operators to the passenger sector. A
    number of independent freight operators have
    appeared in reecent years but SNCF retains the majority of the freight traffic. Apart from the main line railways, there were also a
    many minor railways and tramways, built to
    standard or metre gauge. Some of these lines
    survive as tourist operations. Like England and unlike many other European
    countries, most French cities lost their urban
    tramways in the latter part of the 20th Century, the
    sole exception being a single line in Marseille.
    However, many cities now have new tram and even
    metro systems, and others are projected or in the course of being built.
     
  16. AprilLyrics

    AprilLyrics Regular Member

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    if india friends can drop ur prejudice,i think china's high speed train should be a choice.

    china and india have similarities.unlike Japan,German and France,we r developing countries.so there would be problems that those developing countries never meet wiith.for example,we need to transport much more people,with different purchasing ability.this requires expirence on security system and controling system.undoubtly,china is good at this.and the huge transport during the Spring Festival period is well-known by world.what's more,we have found the problem of HST system and corrected it.

    HST system is not only about the high speed train itself,it is about a complex system.
     
  17. guoyinag

    guoyinag Regular Member

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    long time no see, missing you so much.:wave:

    The real point is we are learning lessons from this accident and improving HSR system.

    [video]http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzI0MDg4ODM2.html[/video]

    This video is a long term plan of our HSR system made in Shanghai expo 2010.

    7.23 accident is a tragedy we do not want to see and we hope will never happen again. this single accident will not shut Chinese HSR development down, lot of new railways are completed in 2011 and will be completed in 2012 and next few years. thanks to the accident, we are operating this system more carefully.

    If India friends are interesting in these systems, maybe it will be a good start to cooperate. Since we can supply not only the locomotive and trains but also the whole system including train, railway, station and also signal equipment.
     
  18. guoyinag

    guoyinag Regular Member

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    it is typically in Armand2`s mind.

    some unnecessary lines are postponed or cancelled, but important ones are still under construction. At this end of year, Beijing and Guangzhou will be connected by CRH.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  19. cir

    cir Senior Member Senior Member

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    India should definitely be encouraged to go for the Japs or the German or the French system, for one more dollar spent on the rail is one less spent on other needs, which are many for today's India.

    The use of Chinese system, technology and construction prowess also tends to shorten the time required for such projects, which is positively not good for China in the long run.

    Earning a few Indian rupees in this case is NOT in China's national interests.
     
  20. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I agree PRC has made a lot of progress in technology. PRC has very good high speed trains. The worry is, when giving to other countries, especially India, what is the guarantee that PRC will not supply sub-standard equipment? Chinese locomotives used by Pakistan Railways is a glaring example.
     
  21. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well, that is completely relying on your own shoulder. It is always buyer's responsibility to look after his own money.

    We had a lot of painful experiences in early 1980s from our Japanese, European and American suppliers: sub-standard equipment, outdated technology and extra charges, etc. These people just used every trap in the contract to rob us until we learned how to play the game.

    So, guess now it is india's turn to go through all these. But i believe you perform far better since your already have lots of experienced international trading expertise.
     
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