India demands visas for professionals in the UK

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by Rage, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    India demands visas for professionals in the UK

    Monday, June 22, 2009 (21: 27 :19)

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    London: India's new Trade and Commerce Minister Anand Sharma said today rich countries must grant Indian professionals more visas as he pressed for a resumption of stalled global trade talks.

    Sharma, who is in Britain for talks with his opposite number Peter Mandelson, told a gathering of prominent British and Indian businessmen the logjam in the so-called Doha Development Round of trade talks "must be broken". But he accused rich countries of erecting new trade barriers in response to the global recession.

    "I am talking about new subsidies being introduced which were given up by countries, trade distorting measures being taken, professionals being refused visas, measures being introduced which are incompatible with the WTO," Sharma told a meeting of the Confederation of Indian Industries (CII).

    "Protectionism is also when you do not have Indian doctors coming in freely, Indian nurses coming in freely, Indian IT professionals moving," he said, voicing a long-standing Indian demand for greater flexibility in allowing the temporary movement of skilled professionals.

    Sharma, who was in the US for talks last week, said India had suggested a resumption of the trade talks based on the two existing draft documents on agriculture and manufacturing.

    "I am happy to say...that has found positive endorsement," he said.
    He said trade diplomats in Geneva had already begun initial discussions for a possible resumption of talks and that he was keen to see a "roadmap" and "some positive results" by the time the US plays host to a Group of 20 (G20) summit in Pittsburgh in September.

    "There is much progress that has been made. The two draft reports should be used as the base documents for the resumption of negotiations. I also referred to countries negotiating to find a middle ground. It's not possible to get absolutely perfect solutions. What is definitely possible and achievable is a fair, honourable and equitable solution."

    "Until the formal sector-specific discussions resume, our Ambassadors have already been advised in Geneva and we are talking. Beyond that I would not like to get into crystal gazing. I remain an optimist - that's all," he added.
    Also present at the meeting were CII mentor Tarun Das, Lord Adair Turner, chairman of Britain's Financial Services Authority, CII president Venu Srinivasan and Indian High Commissioner Shiv Shankar Mukherjee and Richard Lambert, director general of the Confederation of British Industry.

    Also present were Triveni Engineering and Industries chairman Dhruv M. Sawhney, HSBC country head for India Naina Lal Kidwai, Fortis group chairman Malvinder Mohan Singh, and TCS executive director Phiroz Vandrevala. (IANS)


    http://www.headlinesindia.com/diaspora/diaspora/india-demands-visas-for-professionals-14964.html
     
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  3. Calanen

    Calanen Regular Member

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    Door swings both ways India. You must be an Indian citizen to practice law in India.
     
  4. MMuthu

    MMuthu Regular Member

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    What is the need for foriegners to practice law in India.
     
  5. Calanen

    Calanen Regular Member

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    Then what is the need for Indians to practice anything in the UK?
     
  6. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Because you don't have enough of their own capable of doing things. For example, the number of Indian trained doctors in NHS system of Britain. They don't have enough number of british trained doctors. Its simply an equation of supply and demand.
     
  7. Calanen

    Calanen Regular Member

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    There is a demand for foreign trained lawyers in India as well. Supply and demand? But the demand cannot be met, so you have to have Indian lawyers pretending to be able to do the job, while foreigners offshore do the work, and Indian lawyers sign off on their work. Because if it was sent from an Indian firm, it would be a confused mash of bad English and the advice would probably be wrong, especially on international mergers. So a US or UK lawyer, asks all the questions, drills the Indian lawyer - drafts a nice, well prepared quality advice and gets the Indian lawyer to put his or her name to it.

    So, if India is not prepared to grant foreigners from Magic Circle firms visas to practice law in India, then why should the UK grant more visas? Quid pro quo, or no go, I would say. But that's just me.
     
  8. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Don't just make up things to prove your point. Please provide links to back-up. And also provide links for your claims that India has not provided visas for lawyers from so called Magic Circle firms. If you cannot do, desist from making comments.
     
  9. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    You do not have to be a citizen to practice law in India; all you need is an evaluation and approval of your basic course work and professional expertise by the bar council of India along with an approval by the state bar council for the intended area of practice.

    India's BPO industry, a booming multi million dollar entity that seems to be growing at warp speed pretty much provides market based evidence that contradicts your misconceptions.
     
  10. Calanen

    Calanen Regular Member

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    Nothing was made up. There is no link to real life, although you can find it outside your front door.

    You cannot practice law as a non-citizen in India, that's part of your legislation. Citizens do not need visas. So there would be no point in getting a visa to practice, when you need citizenship to practice.

    http://www.helplinelaw.com/docs/THE...PTER III ADMISSION AND ENROLMENT OF ADVOCATES

    Although there are various possible exceptions in the legislation, what it has meant in practice that there is very strong protectionism by Indians from permitting foreigners from practising law in India. That's fine, you have a right to do that. But do not expect others to open doors for you if you close them in their faces.

    So the door swings both ways. Open up the rights of non-Indians to practice in the professions in India, if you want more visas in the west to practice. Only fair I'd think.

    I am well qualified to speak about such things in real life, but I am loathe these days to say too much about real life on the internet, as in the past, I've had the odd weird stalker threaten to come kill me etc. So I'm a bit less forthcoming with information, than I might have been, once upon a time when the internet was a nicer place...
     
  11. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    A foreign trained lawyer is not allowed to practice in India. His degrees will not be recognized. It's been in existence since 1961.
     
  12. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    It's true.

    India?s ?Not for Sale? Legal Market Draws U.S., U.K. Law Firms - Bloomberg.com
    Law.com - Still No Passage to India for Foreign Law Firms

    However, the comparison is wrong. India is a developing country with a nascent industry (compared to European or US economies), whether it be pharmaceutical, legal or other sectors like telecommunications etc. We don't want another East India Company style strangulation of of domestic industry by much larger, financially resourceful foreign companies until Indian companies in all sectors are strong enough to compete on their own.

    Besides, foreign firms are based in other countries, have their loyalties elsewhere and will cut and run at the first sign of trouble. Not so for Indian firms. So the legal market will also open, but in time, after Indian firms are strong enough to compete with foreign law firms on Indian as well as foreign turfs.
     
  13. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Fine, foreign-born people may not be allowed to practice law for whatever reasons. Out of so many professions this is one profession where the door may be one sided. What about other professions?. Is the door closed in those cases as well?.

    You haven't provided the links for the issue of demand for foreign-trained lawyers in India. If there is no demand, the question of practicing doesn't arise?. Probably, if there is enough demand, India might open up. You see, again it boils down to demand and supply. You haven't shown that there is demand for foreign-born or -trained lawyers in India.
     
  14. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    Calanen,
    read the article carefully. India's Trade and Commerce Minister has said that RICH countries shouldnt erect barriers. The same argument doestnt apply to developing or poor countries. And India is a developing country. So, your argument doesnt apply. India asks rich countries like Britain to grant visas to professionals.
     
  15. Calanen

    Calanen Regular Member

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    So? He could have said 'rich countries' or 'countries with a Queen' or countries that start with 'U'. Still, if you want more visas, then you need to grant more visas. The door swings both ways, that's all I am saying. There are no convincing arguments for saying a 'developing country' needs to keep out professionals from other countries, while at the same time demanding that other countries let its professionals in. In fact one would think that a self-described 'developing country' could use the help of professionals from 'rich countries.'
     
  16. Calanen

    Calanen Regular Member

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    I worked in the area, I know what there is a demand for. It's not a question of links. It's a very specialised area, so I doubt there are 'links'. As I said earlier though, I am 'sharing' less on the internet these days, too many loonies.

    And if there is no demand, as you say (with no experience and no knowledge of the area), surely it will not hurt to grant the visas because you lose nothing right?
     
  17. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Can you show an instance where India blanket-banned Professionals from other countries working in India. We have foreign-born CEOs for many companies in India (mind you these are Indian owned companies not MNCs. For eg. till recently Wolfgang Prock- Schauer was CEO of Jet Airways). For instance, take the number of cricket coaches in IPL tournament. All most all of them are foreign-born, did India stop them from working?. Your arguments lack depth and you are resorting to very shallow arguments and clinging to just the lawyer issue, where you have not shown that there is actually a demand for them in India. In that case, its better you rest your case and stop making "swinging-door" arguments :D.
     
  18. Calanen

    Calanen Regular Member

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    There is a demand for them, for every merger and IPO that happens which has an Indian presence. That would be, one or two wouldn't it? I worked in the industry, not much more I can tell you than that. Why is it shallow to say, if you wish to eat at my table, you must invite me to eat at yours?

    I know about lawyers, which is why I am speaking of them. Doctors would not want to go to India and earn less pay. Neither would accountants, I'm guessing. Lawyers are a bit different because international cross-border mergers may have an Indian component, and then you tear your hair out trying to get an Indian local lawyer to do the work. IPOs as well with an Indian component. Also, multinationals with local workforces that want to standardize policies across the globe and include certain countries. Cross-border law is a very important area, and I know this because, I practised in it.
     
  19. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    You may or may not worked in such professional law firms and I have no way to authenticate that and with out any neutral links to demand of lawyers of foreign-origin in India, I have every reason to not believe you. I think we should move on from this issue unless you get those links.
     
  20. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    Developed countries, developing countries and poor countries have different needs and world expects them to play different roles. Your argument sounds good but is not practical. You cant ask India to play the same role as US(per say) or UK(per say). Our Commerce Minister said that India expects Developed countries to lead the way and not go back into their cocoons.
    If and when India is a developed(rich) country, other nations would be justified in demanding that India open its market to foreign lawyers(or other professionals). Right now, India is still a developing nation with just 60 yrs of Independence. You cant compare India with a US or UK or some other similar nation.
     
  21. Calanen

    Calanen Regular Member

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    Can you post a link that you exist? No? Maybe you don't then.

    I don't care if you believe me or not. But just as a matter of common sense, a GLOBAL merger would need GLOBAL lawyers, including lawyers from India who would usually know nothing about how to merge the transaction into English or US law.

    But what would I know - this is my fantasy after all. Reasonably intricate one. Just puting my call through to one of the Magic Circle firms...ring ring..Quick fellas they are onto me! No need to pretend to have the Cross Border Transactions Department anymore, close it down! They've figured out its just some random dude's fantasy on the internet!

    Oh well, worth a try. Cant fool everyone I guess.
     

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