India declines to affirm 'One China' policy

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Parthy, Dec 17, 2010.

  1. Parthy

    Parthy Air Warrior Senior Member

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    The promise of $100-billion trade between India and China failed to obscure the reality: the two Asian giants remain far apart on fundamental issues, including Kashmir and terror strikes on India from Pakistan territory.

    Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao, on a charm offensive here, said the two countries would strive for a ''strategic consensus'' on issues, while PM Manmohan Singh responded with his own brand of optimism: ''A strong partnership between India and China will contribute to long-term peace, stability, prosperity and development in Asia and the world.''

    The verbal warmth was buttressed by signing six bilateral agreements — on culture, green technology, media exchanges, river data and banking, possibly indicating the breadth of issues on which India-China ties have grown.

    But behind the warm, fuzzy public atmospherics was a lot of candid, tough talking by India on its core concerns. Maintaining S M Krishna's line that Jammu & Kashmir was integral to India just as Tibet was to China, the China-India joint statement failed to mention India's affirmation of a 'one China' policy — which states that Taiwan and Tibet are part of China. This was a significant first in Indo-Sino ties.

    India has been asking China to affirm a one-India policy. Considering China was questioning Kashmir's accession to India, it appears India too has held its hand on a 'one China' policy.

    On stapled Chinese visas for Kashmiris — something that has become a clear provocation for India — foreign secretary Nirupama Rao said that Wen raised the issue of stapled visas even before the Indians could. But in typical Chinese style, Wen only agreed to official discussions on it, instead of addressing the irritant. Sources said proof that China might walk back from its current policy would be evident only over time.

    India pushed hard on several other issues of concern. Refusing to accept China's demand for a regional trade agreement, India pushed for greater market access for Indian products and services in China. The joint statement promises ''measures to promote greater Indian exports to China with a view to reduce India's trade deficit.''

    China remained non-committal on both terrorism from Pakistan and India's bid for a permanent seat at UNSC. Addressing the Indian Council for World Affairs, Wen said both countries had similar views on UNSC reform. In joint statement, China stuck to its old line, ''China attaches great importance to India's status in international affairs as a large developing country, understands and supports India's aspiration to play a greater role in United Nations, including in the Security Council.''

    Read more: India declines to affirm 'One China' policy - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-policy/articleshow/7114778.cms#ixzz18MifF7C3
     
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  3. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    China must be told that we will accept their One China policy if they accept Kashmir and Arunachal as part of India.
     
  4. Parthy

    Parthy Air Warrior Senior Member

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    Adding to the above 2 condition,

    1. Getting Aksai-Chin back (Will that ever happen?? :emot19:)
    2. declare Tibet as autonomous region and withdraw PLA forces out of it.
    3. Withdraw support for Maoist
    4. Withdraw PLA from gilgit region.

    If they're fine with all the above pacts, then go ahead accept what is theirs actually.... But that will never happen without using any force... :emot159:
     
  5. DMF

    DMF Regular Member

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    In the old times, China did not have a clear idea about the territory, Chinese only had the concept of” four oceans”, or “under the heaven”, not have a clear border line, both China and India were victims of Empire invasion, and the border problem between China and India were left by the British. Also this problem created some new problems by our old generations, so far the best way is to leave it the statue quo. Because the problems are unsolvable, and if both sides keep the problems in mind, the cooperation will get to suffer, this is not to the interests of both the people.
    Actually when an Indian is with a Chinese, the relationship can be very cordial, for example, I have a customer from Dubai, visited us in Ningbo China, this Dubai company always have a purchase manager, a young Indian boy, in China, this Indian friend told me that he has a Chinese girl friend, he and will get married to her and he like to live in China, but his Mama not like his idea, because China is a too free country, people are too free to do anything, his Mama afraid his dear son become bad guy in China if he do some wrong. When I were with this friend, I didn’t remember any of the problems between our two countries.

    The border dispute and Dalai lama Issus or territorial issues not actually influence our daily live, but a good cooperation will actually affect our lives. Also the most important thing is that China not has you Indians in mind as an enemy, With the memories of 1962, you can not put it down.
     
  6. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    i read both the extract above , by the originator of this thread and also the times of india article referred to in the link - neither gives any evidence of india taking a stand on declining to affirm its' hitherto "one china" policy .... just some demands on recognition of the status of kashmir as indian territory and india's refusal to be pushed into a trade agreement etc .... but to infer any backbone in GOI toward a more manly stand on a breakout of the hitherto browbeaten onechina policy is to extrapolate inventively ...that is to say it is not rational to infer so - based on the article refered to .
     
  7. rcscwc

    rcscwc Tihar Jail Banned

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    Policies come and go, national interests remain. If it helps India to doubt that Tibet is part of China, then fine. Only this thinking needs to be crystallised.
     
  8. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well, I would like to offer another perspective with regard to this issue.

    India must have raised some demands in exchange with her reaffirmation of the "One China" policy, and the demands were rejected by China. In this sense, I think China is becoming pragmatic by turnning down India's unreasonable request. If India wants to reverse its stance over Tibet and Taiwan, that is her choice. But she can't blackmail China anymore by playing duplicity over these issues.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2010
  9. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Dunno if this has been posted before

    The mystery of missing thousand miles in J&K


    As questions of territorial sovereignty return to the centrestage in Sino-Indian relations, Beijing has added a new twist to the long-running boundary dispute between the two countries by knocking off nearly 1,600 km from its definition of China’s border with India.

    A Xinhua report from Beijing earlier this week on the eve of premier Wen Jiabao’s visit to India described the Sino-Indian border as nearly 2,000-km long. The Indian count of the operational border is a lot longer at nearly 3,500 km (not taking into account the line separating Pakistan Occupied Kashmir and China). The discrepancy is too large to be treated as an inadvertent error in Beijing.

    So, where did the hundreds of kilometers disappear? China apparently no longer treats the line of nearly 1,600 km separating Jammu and Kashmir on the one hand and Xinjiang and Tibet on the other as a border with India.

    Ads by Google

    China’s recasting of the length of the border with India appears to be part of the Kashmir puzzle that Beijing has unveiled in recent years. The other pieces include the recent policy of issuing stapled visas to Indian citizens from J&K, the reluctance to host a visit by the Northern Commander of the Indian Army Lt. Gen. B.S. Jaswal, the dramatic expansion of the Chinese activity in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir that includes the modernisation of the Karakoram Highway and the plans to construct a new rail line and oil pipeline between Kashgar in Xinjiang and the Gwadar port on Pakistan’s Makran coast.

    Xinhua’s reference to 2,000 km of Sino-Indian border was based on an official briefing by the Assistant Foreign Minister of China, Hu Zhengyue to the Beijing press corps on Monday.

    Minister Hu’s shortening of the border with India does not appear to be a one-off comment. The figure 2,000 km appears to have become the new normal in the official Chinese characterisation of the border with India.


    A day before Wen arrived in India, The Global Times—an English language newspaper published by the People’s Daily, the official organ of the Chinese Communist Party—contradicted the Indian figure of 3,500 km for the operational border between the two nations.

    In an interview with the Indian Ambassador to China, S. Jaishankar, the Global Times asked about the reported tensions on the border. In response, Jaishankar said, “The reality contradicts any alarmist depiction of the situation on the border, whether in India or in China. We have a long common border of 3,488 km.”

    In publishing the interview in its Tuesday’s editions, the editors of the Global Times chose to add in parenthesis the following: “There is no settled length of the common border. The Chinese government often refers to the border length as being ‘about 2,000 km.”

    Given Beijing’s new emphasis on a shorter border with India, Delhi can’t ignore the issue any longer. After all, the Chinese are quite careful and very definitive in articulating their boundary claims.

    Beijing’s official figure for the Indian border at about 2,000 km makes sense only if the boundary between J&K and China is disregarded. From the Indian count, the western sector that covers the frontier of Jammu & Kashmir is 1,597 km (nearly 1,000 miles).

    For decades now, Delhi and Beijing have discussed, as a mater of routine, the western sector of J&K as part of their boundary talks. The first signs of trouble on the western sector came nearly a decade ago during NDA tenure, when Delhi tried to exchange maps of the border with Beijing as part of an effort to clarify the Line of Actual Control on their vast frontiers.

    The maps for the central sector were quickly exchanged; but Beijing was reluctant to do the same in the western sector. Part of the problem was said to be Chinese concern about Pakistan’s sensitivity to the delineation of the Sino-Indian border in J&K.

    The new Chinese approach to the western sector reveals that India’s problem could be much larger than the question of stapled visas. It might be about a fundamental ambivalence in Beijing about India’s sovereignty over J&K.

    Just as the Chinese decision to call Arunachal Pradesh as ‘South Tibet’ has begun to gain international traction, the repeated references to the length of Sino-Indian border as 2,000 km is bound to have an impact on the global discourse about J&K.

    Beijing’s new position underlines China’s centrality in J&K. While the Indian debate on Kashmir is usually focussed on Pakistan, China’s presence in the state might be emerging as a decisive new factor.

    India claims that China is in occupation of nearly 38,000 sq km of Indian territory in the Ladakh region of J&K. China is also in control of nearly 5,000 sq km of Shaksgam valley in PoK ceded by Islamabad to Beijing in March 1963.

    Until now India has sought to negotiate its territorial disputes in Kashmir separately with Pakistan and China. India might now have to come to terms with the changing geopolitics of J&K, where India’s two fronts with Pakistan and China come together.


    This part is just ridiculous, they're not recognizing the whole of J&K

     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2010
  10. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Well this indicates that future won't be very pleasant with the Chinese; at least at national level if not individual. Siding with an enemy, refusing to recognize provinces of the neighbour and claiming half their country is not the way friendship is done. And I think CCP knows this obvious well enough for us not to mention to them.

    Guess military build-up is the only way along with strong diplomacy. Trade is too high and neither countries can reduce it. But we have to be prepared for anything in future. I won't be surprised if a 2 front war is in the offings.
     
  11. Parthy

    Parthy Air Warrior Senior Member

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    Hope to have all defense procurements completed before on time.... :emot0:
     
  12. JAISWAL

    JAISWAL Senior Member Senior Member

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    its nice to see atlast INDIA taking ferm stand on its policies. hope they will follow.
     
  13. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    I would put it this way . China must have lured us with offer to affirm one china policy but we asked them to get lost for making unreasonable request. China can't blackmail India anymore by playing duplicity over these issues
     
  14. december

    december New Member

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    I think we should try to establish our presence in our friendly nation like philipines,taiwan & japan to encircle china and have strong influence in soth china sea.........Just copy paste of what china is doing to us.....................
     
  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    It is a good sign that the Govt is taking a very principled stand.
     
  16. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    Even if China sits to bargain on One China policy or something else, India shouldn't go blind for that bargain. Just recently they were ready to discuss staple visa issue amid India's participation in Nobel prise ceremony. China and Pakistan has taken India as an entity which can be lured or be obliged to, by temporary relieves or be brought to bargain by new factitious controversies composed out of the blue every time. Furthermore even any back channel negotiation will be a bad idea with China. Chinese flip flop on Sikkim is well known and they have a spin doctor like Pakistan setting precedence on how easily agreements like Shimla can be entitled as ineffectual or of no importance.
    India can/should make a deal with both after having practise/habit of consistent, many years of assertive geopolitics supported by overwhelming offencive military might (not parity or arm race but a real threat perception in enemie's war simulation that we can not only defend but invade or severly demage their nation in detail). Also a robust propaganda machinery and a very transparent dealing is mandatory to make them abide by, for long lasting peace.
     
  17. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Again it's very stupid for those Mandarins asking for lip service of "One China"

    It's like the US asking for "One USA" everytime at a visit for recognition of Alaska or Hawaii as part of the US.

    I'm sad that China and India have wasted so much time over such trivalities. Do they have anything more meaningful to do?
     
  18. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    By asking a repeated assertion of such claims that too on an international scale, your government wants to send a message that the disputed territory is not disputed but China's. Now your maps according to your government show entire east India cut off, northern territories in dotted lines and reduce us to almost 3/4ths of our size. Hence this sort of move feeds your government's insecurity as well.

    China could have gained so much by choosing us over Pakistan and North Korea. But unfortunately CCP made such a choice.
     
  19. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Please explain what you mean by 'unreasonable request'? Which specific request are you referring to? I will try and reason it out for you. You said 'India must have raised some demands'. Do you have any specific information about these demands or are you merely speculating?

    Or would I be too pessimistic to assume that almost every single Indian request is seen as 'unreasonable' in certain quarters?
     
  20. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    In fact I'm infected with pessimism here too about Indo-China prospects too. In some other posts (subj Nehru's Stubborness alike), some posters are actually thinking it was Nehru's fault to recognize Tibet as an auto. region of China so that India lost an edge in claiming McMahon Line as legitimate. It's like in a nego. both sides are supposed to meet in the middle way. but the sentiment is that both sides are heading farther and farther in 2 opposite directions
     
  21. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    ^^^ McMahon issue was there much before you invaded Tibet and you know this very well.. Or has the CCP hidden this from you as well like most of the facts to make it look conducive for them? Listen, they are doing some development and stuff in your country doesn't mean that they are right and the whole world is wrong. We didn't care about Tibet until you invaded it with force and "liberated" it causing thousands of Tibetans run into our country. How would it be if Russia rejected all the previous Qing and other regimes of your country and refused to accept those accessions and occupied Shenyang today? Would you not go crazy?

    Your refusal to recognize Arunachal and Sikkim and dispute Kashmir with us is akin to that. I would say that it is unfortunate of destiny that you put faith in a residue of medieval Muslim rule rather than a 2,000 year old friend. Blaming the British for our rivalry is simply a way to put one's own blame on the shoulder of someone else. British were a menace and did do a lot of damage but the damage had already been done before British even came, leaving it simply for them to use an existing trouble.

    The problem started ever since Mao came to power in China and started having expansionist designs with his crazed Red radical thinking. Before that our ties were damn fine already and we were quite agreeable to each other. Nehru was foolish in his way considering that he even considered not arming the Indian forces with latest weapons and thought that the silly Gandhian policy of non-violence and saintliness was sufficient to run a country.

    Hence Nehru's criticism by Indians is on a totally different dimension than what you Chinese are told about Nehru's "imperialist designs". On the other hand, before we (people of state of Sikkim) simply got a live feed of what your government was upto even if you are to believe that people of rest of India were "told wrong about Chinese by our leaders".

    Mao's claim using "mongoloid race" sometimes and sometime "ancient China" as an excuse to occupy more territory (when ironically he himself destroyed every single reminder of ancient Chinese way of life to enforce Communism--a Western concept on you lot) fell flat on its face from the day one and cannot be attributed to anything but aggressive designs.

    Instead of burning the ashes of the old ghosts of past, CCP is digging them back out of river bed to recreate them and this time use a new-found hedge in it (Pakistan). They are not sensible enough to understand what is wrong for them but at least you Chinese are smart enough; you know what should be and what shouldn't be. Then why do the same thing over and over?
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2010

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