India counters China, says no need to sign NPT for NSG membership

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Srinivas_K, May 20, 2016.

  1. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,674
    Likes Received:
    3,347
    India counters China, says no need to sign NPT for NSG membership

    NEW DELHI: India on Friday rejected China's contention that it must sign the NPT to get membership of the Nuclear Suppliers Group , saying France was included in the elite group without signing the Non-Proliferation Treaty .

    "I think there is some confusion here. Even the NPT allows civil nuclear cooperation with non-NPT countries. If there is a connection, it is between the NSG and IAEA safeguards and with export controls," external affairs ministry spokesperson Vikas Swarup said.

    He was asked about a Chinese official linking China's support to India's bid for NSG to the country signing the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).

    "NSG members have to respect safeguards and export controls, nuclear supplies have to be in accordance with the NSG Guidelines. The NSG is an ad hoc export control regime and France, which was not an NPT member for some time, was a member of the NSG since it respected NSG's objectives," said Swarup.

    China has opposed India's bid to get NSG membership on the ground that it was yet to sign the NPT. Its Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang had said all the multilateral non-proliferation export control regime including the NSG have regarded NPT as an important standard for the expansion of the NSG.


    "Apart from India, lot of other countries expressed their willingness to join. Then it raised the question to the international community - shall the non-NPT members also become part of the NSG?" he said, adding "China's position is not directed against any specific country but applies to all the non-NPT members".

    Liu Zhenmin, China's vice-minister of foreign affairs, later denied that his country was blocking India's bid for a membership in elite NSG and said it will "work" with the members of the 48-nation grouping as well as India to find a solution.


    "Members of the Nuclear Suppliers Group should be party to NPT. So, I think China will also work with others including Indian colleagues together to find a solution," he had said.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...T-for-NSG-membership/articleshow/52359604.cms



     
  2.  
  3. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,674
    Likes Received:
    3,347
    Earlier Chinese diplomat in Delhi said to the press

    India must sign NPT for NSG membership, China asserts

    NEW DELHI: Formalizing a new position that seeks to block India's quest for membership of the Nuclear Suppliers Group, China has said NSG is linked to the NPT, indicating India could be eligible for NSG membership only if it signed the NPT. Speaking to journalists in Delhi, a senior Chinese diplomat denied it was a "bilateral issue".

    "As a member of UN security council, we are the watchdog of the world, we must ensure the rules. And we must also think about others, not just India who want an exception to the rules," he said.



    The US, he said, is asking for an exception for India. "China would never block India's entry into any world body but what about the efficiency of the regime?"



    "China," he said, "joined the NPT in 1992. The treaty has some problems and Indians believe there are double standards. But it only recognizes nuclear weapons states as those that tested weapons before 1967. China did not make this rule, western powers did. We just have to maintain the rules."

    This is China's newest objection to India's NSG bid, slightly different from its earlier stand asking for a criteria-based exception. As India has stepped up its diplomacy on the NSG membership China has also stepped up its opposition. Indian officials deny any link between NPT and NSG.

    With the US once again openly endorsing the Indian membership to the NSG last week, India has begun preparations for the plenary, scheduled to be held in Korea in June. India has been preparing for its accession for years now. Since its NSG waiver in 2008, India has engaged many members of the NSG to give them all a closer look into India's nuclear system, its non-proliferation practices etc.

    When President Pranab Mukherjee travels to China next week, he will engage the Chinese leadership on India's membership of the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG). In fact, sources said India would be stepping up its conversations with China on the issue as the NSG plenary, scheduled for June, draws near. Prime Minister Narendra Modi will make a big push at the highest levels to get the US to make good on its commitment to get India into the NSG.

    Chinese officials here also admitted that "outside influence" in their restive province of Xinjiang was making religious schools "more and more extreme. "There is a political agenda to split China to form East Turkestan, which gets sympathy from western countries. These kind of jihadists are very brutal, they are not human beings. Many Uighur leaders believe that. They misuse Quran for violence."

    But does that change their approach to Masood Azhar? "A terrorist is a terrorist. In China we have the same position. We should go against all forms of terrorism. In Urumqi, Delhi, or Istanbul, all should be condemned. When you had the Mumbai attack, Pathankot attack, Chinese was first to condemn, show support for the Indian government and Indian people. China, India and Pakistan are fighting the same fight against terrorism."

    China, he stressed makes "no difference between India and Pakistan. But you (India) need strong evidence. It is not a bilateral issue, it is at the UN. He is not Indian citizen. India doesn't talk to Pakistan, but calling it a sponsor of terrorism is too strong."

    On the evolving South China Sea problem, the Chinese diplomat hinted at beijing's uneasiness with reports of India and US conducting joint patrols. "When there is some trouble in the South China Sea, India is worried, when Indian ships participate in maritime exercises in the South China Sea, of course, China will show concern."

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ership-China-asserts/articleshow/52350169.cms
     
  4. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2014
    Messages:
    4,717
    Likes Received:
    3,155
    Location:
    Mumbai
    China won't back down. Only option left is for americans to intervene and force China to accept Indian membership.
     
  5. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    3,245
    Likes Received:
    1,859
    @Srinivas_K Sorry Bro, title slightly misleading

    Should emphasize not necessary FOR INDIA to sign ....it is STILL necessary for ALL others , and that includes lover-girl Peskystan ...the special waiver FOR INDIA is because of 40 years of observed GREAT BEHAVIOUR of SELF-IMPOSED NON-PROLIFERATION

    and compare that to Pakistan's record of selling nuclear tech to every tom dick harry north korea iran libya saudi arabia and who knows else .....so china's idea of parity between india and pakistan is completely incorrect

    china cant compare the two , VAST difference and the international community should be reminded of that fact

    @PrashantAzazel
    @angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @Aravind Sanjeev @A chauhan @asingh10
    @aditya g @asianobserve @Bahamut @BATTLE FIELD @bose @Bornubus @brational @blueblood @Blackwater @Blood+ @bhai-117 @Bangalorean @bengalraider @Bengal_Tiger @biswas_k11
    @cobra commando @Chirag @Chris Jude @Chinmoy @Cadian @DingDong @dhananjay1 @ersakthivel @FRYCRY @Gessler @garg_bharat @guru-dutt @Hari Sud @hit&run @HeinzGud @indiandefencefan @I_PLAY_BAD @Indian Devil @Indibomber @Jangaruda @jackprince @Kshatriya87 @LETHALFORCE @laughingbuddha @mhk99
    @MetsaMan @Mark Antony @manutdfan
    @maomao @Navneet Kundu @Neil @Nicky G @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra @parijataka @PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @Rowdy @Razor @Rashna @rock127 @R.parida @shade @sasum @smestarz
    @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Srinivas_K @sunnyv @sgarg @sabari @Sameet2 @saik @sorcerer @Superdefender @sydsnyper @Sridevi @SREEKAR @Screambowl @Sylex21 @Tactical Frog @TejasMK3 @The enlightened @tejas warrior @tharun @thethinker @tsunami @VIP @VaghaDeva @Vishwarupa @Vishal Guts @Yusuf @Yumdoot @Zebra
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2016
  6. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,674
    Likes Received:
    3,347
    Yes it appears Chinese will try everything to block India.
     
  7. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    20,519
    Likes Received:
    6,520
  8. EXPERT

    EXPERT Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    470
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    From Heart to Brain
    creepy chinos, seriously they need a lesson. we should hit them in our way, though the reply of MEA was cool enough but still chinos will try harder not to let us in. Lets see how US responds..
     
    roma likes this.
  9. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,958
    Likes Received:
    7,494
    Location:
    21°N 78°E / 21°N 78°E
    "Non" proliferation of India and "known" proliferation of pakistan? :pound:
     
  10. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    20,519
    Likes Received:
    6,520
    Pakistan was very clever in dealing with their proliferation never let Americans question Aq khan


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Indx TechStyle likes this.
  11. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,958
    Likes Received:
    7,494
    Location:
    21°N 78°E / 21°N 78°E
    Whatever. :rolleyes:
    We have 21 reactors and building 6 more. No course of worry, will take care of them. :p
     
  12. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    A silly idiotic voting procedure exists in the NSG (As well as the security Council). Even one member can put a spoke in the wheel. It should be by majority consensus. How can one country be allowed to hijack the system consisting of 48 countries like the NSG?
     
  13. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    3,245
    Likes Received:
    1,859
    Law can sometimes look silly but still it is important
    that's why when our JN preferred china over india for UN P5 was he also finding it silly ?
    it was a system connived by the brits and USA and we should know that they held the power after WW2 ....such was and still is the REALITY....the brits realised they needed us strategically for the future even though in the past they robbed us , unfortunately our JN couldnt see that ...... so we suffered for decades and only now we are through BJP trying hard to realign

    we can play it like Nehru did and pretend to form some stupid non-aligned and get stabbed in the back and be a fool and poor for decades - the had to people suffer for his fairy tale "vision"

    today the3 USA holds the hard and the soft power and BJP is coming around to realising that IN PRACTICE so we are finally forming JV's with them ! ...thank God for that ! we may or rather would need to keep an arms' length , but still it is the right way to go .

    yes i like your recognition that we need to hit them with some Indian style ....... one great way to do it is to keep making agreements with USA ..... i have elsewhere suggested we convince usa to reduce the number of university places for people from prc and severely restrict , starting gradually, their access to technology at universities and institutes, .... then get usa to shift manufacturing to other low cost nations and buy less form prc

    these measure can add up substantially

    yes Bhai, you are right about that , but the nsg and other memberships are IMPORTANT because they will help break the stupid concept that peskystan is going around begging for PARITY with India when actually they should be treated as nuclear PARIAH and not parity and economically with PITY

    @PrashantAzazel
    @angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @Aravind Sanjeev @A chauhan @asingh10
    @aditya g @asianobserve @Bahamut @BATTLE FIELD @bose @Bornubus @brational @blueblood @Blackwater @Blood+ @bhai-117 @Bangalorean @bengalraider @Bengal_Tiger @biswas_k11
    @cobra commando @Chirag @Chris Jude @Chinmoy @Cadian @DingDong @dhananjay1 @ersakthivel @FRYCRY @Gessler @garg_bharat @guru-dutt @Hari Sud @hit&run @HeinzGud @indiandefencefan @I_PLAY_BAD @Indian Devil @Indibomber @Jangaruda @jackprince @Kshatriya87 @LETHALFORCE @laughingbuddha @mhk99
    @MetsaMan @Mark Antony @manutdfan
    @maomao @Navneet Kundu @Neil @Nicky G @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra @parijataka @PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @Rowdy @Razor @Rashna @rock127 @R.parida @shade @sasum @smestarz
    @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Srinivas_K @sunnyv @sgarg @sabari @Sameet2 @saik @sorcerer @Superdefender @sydsnyper @Sridevi @SREEKAR @Screambowl @Sylex21 @Tactical Frog @TejasMK3 @The enlightened @tejas warrior @tharun @thethinker @tsunami @VIP @VaghaDeva @Vishwarupa @Vishal Guts @Yusuf @Yumdoot @Zebra

    sometimes it seems that way , so i agree with you
    but also bear in mind, the usa has a unique way of, decades later taking such events out of their memory bag and using it against peskystan ......they wait for one fine day then it all adds up
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
    sorcerer, aliyah and Indx TechStyle like this.
  14. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,958
    Likes Received:
    7,494
    Location:
    21°N 78°E / 21°N 78°E
    Membership is important but not at cost if power. We still lag behind P5 in thermonuclear capabilities.
    As far as treating pakistanis in any way, is concerned, we are not even treating them. Government is just ignoring.:p
    They have expressed 4 concerns in 5 days over Indian Law and order and military buildup and India(and any other country) didn't even responded.
    :pound:
    I think I will create a thread about their concerns soon. Very soon.:biggrin2:
     
    aliyah likes this.
  15. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Messages:
    6,203
    Likes Received:
    5,109
    Location:
    India
    :D
    Look china a nation which is so concerned with nuclear disasters does to pakistan

    China to Sell Outdated Nuclear Reactors to Pakistan



    China is pressing ahead with nuclear energy cooperation with Pakistan, despite concerns that it is shipping decades-old technology to its South Asian neighbor. This comes as China suspended approvals for new nuclear power plants within China to review safety standards following the recent earthquake/tsunami disaster in Japan.


    Chinese authorities have already suspended approvals of new nuclear plants within the country because of safety concerns sparked by the disasters in Japan.

    But when Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu was asked Thursday about whether Beijing is similarly concerned about exporting outdated nuclear technology to Pakistan, she dismissed it as unrelated.:rofl:

    Jiang says there are no direct links to the two issues. She says the Chinese government wants to see "orderly and reasonable" nuclear development in China, and is especially concerned about safety.
    [:rofl::rofl::rofl:Reasonable for beggar pakistan..]

    As for Pakistan, though, she said only that China and Pakistan’s nuclear cooperation has been under the supervision of the International Atomic Energy Agency.

    China has provided two reactors to Pakistan’s Chasma nuclear power plant, with a deal that it provide two more. American officials have not expressed outright opposition, but have said if China goes ahead with Chasma 3 and 4, these actions would be "inconsistent" with commitments it made when it joined the Nuclear Suppliers Group in 2004.


    Meanwhile, reports on Chinese nuclear websites show work on Chasma is continuing, even after the nuclear crisis in Japan.

    Mark Hibbs, an atomic energy expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, has closely followed the Chinese-Pakistani nuclear cooperation. He says China has been developing its own nuclear technology, but that it is outdated.


    "So far most of the reactors that the Chinese themselves have built on the basis of their own know-how reflects a technology which was available in the West and in advanced nuclear countries outside of China about 30 years ago," he said. "The Chinese are exporting this equipment - this is the technology which China has been exporting to Pakistan. I don’t believe right now that there is a major world market outside of Pakistan which is very interested in this technology."


    Hibbs says France, Japan, and the United States provide the world’s most advanced nuclear technology, so he sees China as having commercial reasons for wanting to catch up. He says China also has geopolitical concerns for wanting to help Pakistan.


    "What is important for China is that this deal cements and underpins China’s strategic partnership with Pakistan in the political and military area," said Hibbs. "But it also provides a workplace for China’s nuclear industry to gain experience in building nuclear power plants abroad, an endeavor that the Chinese in the future very much want to do."


    Earlier this month, in another sign that the Chasma project is moving forward, the International Atomic Energy Agency agreed to Pakistan’s request to safeguard the two new planned reactors there, to ensure that the nuclear material from the reactors is not diverted to make nuclear weapons.


    In 2008, the United States won a waiver from the Nuclear Suppliers Group before it could go ahead with a controversial nuclear power deal with India. The cartel is made up of countries that work to ensure that civilian nuclear exports are not used to make weapons.


    China-Pakistan nuclear cooperation is expected to come up at the group’s annual meeting later this year, although the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Thursday did not indicate whether China would be seeking a similar waiver

    .
    http://www.voanews.com/content/chin...ar-reactors-to-pakistan-118572049/136981.html


    China Confirms Pakistan Nuclear Projects
    Revelations about the growing Sino-Pakistan nuclear axis comes amid continuing concerns expressed by some that ongoing cooperation is occurring without the sanction of the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) which helps supervise the export of global civilian nuclear technology. China is a member of the NSG and existing regulations prohibit members from exporting such technology nations like Pakistan which do not adopt full-scale safeguards.



    China declared the first two reactors it already agreed to construct for Pakistan – the Chashma-1 and Chashma 2 – at the time it joined the Nuclear Suppliers Group in 2004, with the expectation that no new deals would follow. But in 2010, the China National Nuclear Cooperation announced it would export technology for two new reactors, Chashma-3 and Chashma-4 because it argued – rather controversially – that these projects were already grandfathered in under previous agreements rather than being fresh proposals.

    http://thediplomat.com/2015/02/china-confirms-pakistan-nuclear-projects/

    =========

    Well!! Thats china speaking with a forked tongue.:facepalm: . Indias statement on NPT and NSG is very logical and relevant with what china does in real world.
    china still on opium I guess!!
     
  16. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,674
    Likes Received:
    3,347
    China stands firm on NPT for NSG membership, rebuts India’s stand on France - See more at:

    http://indianexpress.com/article/in...stand-on-france-2815550/#sthash.abtSYNaC.dpuf

    1) It is not mandatory to sign NPT to get the membership in NSG, India fulfills all the requirements of NSG and had an excellent non proliferation record.

    2) The argument that France is one of the founding members of NSG so this country got exception shows the hollowness of the argument, on one hand China is saying that no country should be exempted and on the other hand the same china is saying France was an exception.

    3) International bodies needs to be transparent and democratic, they are not an autocratic bodies and there is no hierarchy system in this regard. Reforms in security council are a must and the world has changed a lot since the end of second world war.

    4) China can present its arguments at the NSG meet, but it is obvious that the end result depends on the voting process and majority opinion of the countries around the world.

    5) India is confident in this regard and we are not worried about chinese objections. We are a peace loving country and we do not wish any meaning less friction between India and China in this regard.

    6) We wish to see a transparent, democratic bodies at the international level and India will work on number of initiatives in this regard.
     
  17. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2014
    Messages:
    4,717
    Likes Received:
    3,155
    Location:
    Mumbai
    China is playing with 2 arguments at the same time. First being, NPT is needed for someone to become a member of NSG. Second being, if NPT is not needed then other countries are also eligible e.g. pakistan. Hence, China is aiming for 2 options here;

    1. India cannot join NSG. Because of NPT.

    2. If India joins, make sure Pakistan joins too.

    Of course the 2nd option will never work out because unlike India who has only one opponent in the votes i.e. China, Pakistan will have almost all the members of NSG voting against its membership.
     
    OneGrimPilgrim likes this.
  18. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,674
    Likes Received:
    3,347
    NPT is not mandatory to get NSG membership, Chinese argument makes no sense.

    They are saying France is exempted because France is one of the founding members of the NSG. France got the membership because it fulfilled the criteria not because it is one of the founding members.
     
    OneGrimPilgrim and Kshatriya87 like this.
  19. ganesh177

    ganesh177 Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    295
    Location:
    Pune, Incredible India
    Pranab mukherjee is in china, hope he does some magic there and sink the chinese opposition.
     
  20. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,674
    Likes Received:
    3,347
    There are no worries even if Chinese oppose !
     
    OneGrimPilgrim likes this.
  21. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,099
    Likes Received:
    801
    Location:
    Amsterdam

Share This Page