India Cold Start Doctrine and Pakistan's Tactical Nukes

Discussion in 'Strategic Forces' started by Hari Sud, Oct 22, 2015.

  1. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Now the secret is open, Pakistanis chose Nawaz Sharrif trip to US as an opportunity to declare that they have developed low yield tactical nuclear weapons to crush the Indian Cold Start moves. The security services had known about all over the world of this development. But the Pakistanis chose New York as the venue to discuss it.

    US has been concerned for the last many years of the Pakistani rapid increase of the nuclear stockpile. They had put their own think tanks to examine this development in the subcontinent. These think tanks all concluded the same that the Pakistani stockpile growth is true and it is a danger.

    Where as Pakistanis are boasting about their low yield nuclear weapons, US is concerned about its growth and possible use which will start a nuclear war with ramifications far beyond South Asia.

    US has various options at the table I.e. Offer them a nuclear deal lesser in ramifications than offered to India but never the less a deal in return Pakistan would place the nuclear weapons and its whole nuclear program under international control. Failing a deal like that, sanctions will be imposed.

    A nuclear blackmail by Pakistan of India and the whole world, US activate its network inside Pakistan to gain control of these weapons etc.

    What is India's option at this juncture;

    1. Do India have similar weapons to threaten a retaliation about four times larger,

    2. Get rid of Cold Start doctrine and surrender to Pakistani whims,

    3. Go ahead and use the Cold Start Doctrine, even if Pakistan was to use low yield nuclear weapons but in return anhiliate its cities and infrastructure that is Pakistan goes back to Stone Age,

    4. Let US deal with this danger, they have successfully warded off the Iranian nuclear blackmail. For that solid friendship with US is essential.

    Let us talk in this forum of this emerging danger.
     
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  3. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    Keep Cold Start. If they use tactical nukes when we are waging war for a just cause (26/11-styled terrorist attack), then their tactical nukes invite a strategic nuclear second-strike. But we do have tactical missiles like Prahaar and Prithvi.

    The world won't care whether it's a small tactical nuke or a big strategic one, NORAD will pick up exactly who fired the first nuke, although I suspect Pakistan will detonate the first nuke on its own soil to make it appear as if we fired the first nuke. They're capable of that savagery.

    The thing about small missiles is that it's hard for satellites to track trajectories. The only thing they can detect for sure is a detonation.
     
  4. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    That require a revision of our Cold War strategy together with a clear statement that any attack on Indian troops even on Pakistani soil, will invite a strategic retaliation. The west will not be able to change India's mind after that savagery.

    If we do not state that clearly, morale of our troops will hit rock bottom. If we state that very clearly that strategic retaliation will render Pakistani cities a heap of burning cinder, it will probably lower the Pakistani troops morale.
     
  5. rohit.gr77

    rohit.gr77 Regular Member

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    I'm not sure that the threat of turning major Pakistani cities to dust will have any impact on the morale of Pakistani Army. The soldiers of the PA have been enshrined with a false sense of superiority and bravado all throughout their training. The only thing that will hit their morale hard will be anhilation of GHQ Rawalpindi, even carpet bombing would do the trick, if GHQ is hit their morale goes way down. Just my two cents.
     
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  6. angeldude13

    angeldude13 Lestat De Lioncourt Senior Member

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    If they use tactical nukes on our soldier then we will convert pakistan from Atmi quwwat to Radiation quwwat :lol:
     
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  7. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    I do not believe in bravado.
    Pakistan says it will use tactical nukes on India troops in case of aggression.
    What concrete answer do we have for that ?
    Looking at all your replies it seems we do not have any solid reply.
    Does that mean Indian armed forces can never strike Pakistan in case of a terrorist attack ?
    We will be in a perpetual state of blackmail from Pakistan, isn't it ?
     
  8. sabari

    sabari Regular Member

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    Build radio active waste storage facility in Jammu Kashmir near sindu rever
    After a Pakistan terrist attack on india
    Dump tons and tons of radio active waste in sindu water and give media report that this is an industrial diesaster
    If they are not care about any moral why should we
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
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  9. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    My stand is to not hurt innocent civilians by hitting hard on their basic needs.
    But looking at the way Pakistan is blackmailing India I think we don't have a better option than disrupting their water resources.
     
  10. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    As I suggested, our answer could be a 500+ kTy warhead riding an Agni III, bound for Karachi.


    Look again.

    No. Waging war on Pakistan is a neat 70-seat bonus for Modi in the 2019 polls. He will grab the opportunity to hit Pakistan with both hands.
     
  11. brational

    brational Regular Member

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    How could you so biased towards Lahore, Islamabad and Pindi? Pakjabis have every right to get at least three 250 KT. You take out Pakjab from Pakistan everything will fall in place. For Karachi a full scale Naval blockade and conventional warheads will serve the purpose.
     
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  12. sabari

    sabari Regular Member

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    Is there is any better idea you have to stop there terrist attack against Indian civilian population
     
  13. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    My point was that even a tiny tactical strike will be met by an overwhelming strategic response.
     
  14. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pakis will end up irradating their fertile plains and food producing belt of punjab just to destroy few Indian tanks.

    I don't think India need tactical nukes (no country except pak has tactical nukes),India has some alternatives to it like GBU 97 tank busters and sub munitions rockets for smerch and pinaka.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
  15. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    You highlight what Modi would gain. But I am concerned about what we would lose.
    If India attacks Pakistan they will use nukes. We will retaliate with a heavy nuke on Karachi which will draw dozens on Pakistani missiles on us and it will go on.
    If we have nukes they say they also have nukes. Their chest thumping is India has more to lose than Pakistan.
    All I am asking is what solid deterrence we possess to make Pakistan think twice or even thrice before they push the N-button ?
     
  16. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    Surgical strikes, covert operations.
    those might sound cinematic but those are the only credible options we currently have.
     
  17. sabari

    sabari Regular Member

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    If you use any military attack they will threaten to use nuke.and should India need to loss our solders life and why should we need to spend our resource for there madness and stupid like neo ,blue marlin will say India paper tiger.
    Dumping nuke waste is easy task then your option
     
  18. Immanuel

    Immanuel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Cold start is old news, its already outdated. Gen V.K Singh had pushed in a far deadlier doctrine after he came in already 4 years ago. During Cold Start Army still maintained Strike and Holding Corps, that's entirely changed now.

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/delhi/deadlier-war-doctrine/story-G2rseQPKHtVuxtutmGImEJ.html

    The new doctrine essentially converted holding Corps into Pivots, essentially enabling the entire army to run offensive ops. Pivots will crush through into enemy territory while strike formations go further and cause havoc. This new doctrine has the Pakis shitting in their salwars, forcing them to deploy majority of their reserves into battle since day 1. This also forces them to essentially bring out low yield tac nukes also from day 1 since they can't bare the brunt of what will eventually be up to 3-4 Pivot Corps and 1 Strike Corp running through paki countryside before our own politicians, the UN and International Community can say jack about it.

    Also with the NSA/NCA making it absolutely clear that any fielding of low level tac nukes will result in overwhelming strategic response, the Pakis don't stand a chance
     
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  19. Varahamihira

    Varahamihira Regular Member

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    I would say call their bluff.
    First they said they will use nukes.
    Now it's tactical nukes.
    Tomorrow what?Veena Malliks B***s

    For Pak elite Generals it's all about extracting as much money as they can from US.And US is more than willing to give it to hold on to Afghanistan and in turn transferring(i.e.getting stolen and US acting ignorance) military grade tech to china via Pak.See China doesn't have to sign CISMOA,etc.

    Everyone is playing everyone.

    For arguments sake if it's true then there should be no holds barred annihilation of Pak,
     
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  20. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Use of tactical nukes will give India the right rationale for bombing that savage country to stone age for forever.

    I would actually go further and say, in the event of next war India should tactically nuke its few soldiers to justify using nukes against all Pak cities. India is super big and can easily withstand nuclear bombing of few cities. India does not lack manpower or land area to actually worry about Paki nukes striking a few cities. Using nukes with break the backbone of Paki mulla generals once and forever. Also India should then use this opportunity to de-nuclearize Pak. Actually it will die itself due to financial constraints once all Paki cities become mounds of dust.

    Damage due to nukes is highly exaggerated in case of Indo-Pak war. I would understand the fallout in case of old USSR-USA who had enough stockpile to bomb each other's entire country out. But in case of Indo-Pak, India can take out the cities- Lahore, Rawalpindi, Peshawar, Islamabad. And that should be good enough to break their morale and then let IA do the remaining. In the end, some 300-400 sq km of area would be inhospitable for some 100 years. That is not a big cost for dismantling a rogue nation.
     
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  21. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    I believe this whole nuke thing is "irrespective of whether true or not" is a blackmail tactic as usual. Blackmail is being done by two parties Pakistan and US.

    Pakistan as usual wants more military aid, same tactics are used by noko.

    Americans are attempting to gain leverage over Indian strategic discussions, by playing the "we are trying to stop Pakistan from nuking you".

    If we have any brains, we should develop overwhelming counter strategy. this paki strategy is a counter to CSD. New strategy is required which can sit on top of CSD. Some doctrine which will scorch the the paki side of battlefield even before our first strike forces set foot on the battle field. Precision guided pinaka maybe ?
     
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