India Chooses U.S.-Built Javelin Anti-Tank Missile

[youngindian]

India to approach US for anti-tank guided missile system


http://www.hindustantimes.com/India...nk-guided-missile-system/Article1-587605.aspx

 

[sandeepdg]

India to order large number of Javelin anti-tank missiles from US


NEW DELHI: Faced with a huge shortfall of anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM), coupled with the delayed induction of the indigenous `Nag' missile, India will order a "large'' number of the quite-expensive Javelin ATGM systems from the US.

The deal for the man-portable, fire-and-forget Javelin ATGM systems will once again be a direct government-to-government one under the American foreign military sales (FMS) programme, without any global multi-vendor competition.

Much to the dismay of Russians and Europeans, India is increasingly taking the FMS route to ink big arms deals with US. The biggest on the verge of finalisation, of course, is for 10 C-17 Globemaster-III giant strategic airlift for upwards of $3 billion.

As for the Javelin contract, defence minister A K Antony told Parliament on Monday the "letter of request'' to US government for procurement of the third-generation ATGM, along with "transfer of technology'', would be issued soon.

This means India will buy some of the 2.5-km range Javelin systems off-the-shelf, while a much larger number will be indigenously manufactured under licensed production. The US has already showcased the ATGM system during bilateral combat exercises like `Yudh-Abhyas' in Babina last October, as reported earlier.

While the exact number of Javelin systems India will induct is yet to be decided, it could well run into thousands. The Army, after all, has a shortfall of around 44,000 ATGMs of different types. "Though Army has an authorised holding of 81,206 ATGMs, not even half that number is present in its inventory,'' said a source.

This when Pakistan is inducting a wide array of missiles, including 2,769 TOW-2A heavy anti-armour guided missiles from US. Mechanised as well as regular infantry units armed with advanced ATGM systems are deemed critical to slow down, if not halt, enemy armoured thrusts into one's territory.

Indian infantry units are as of now equipped with variants of the second-generation 2-km-range Milan and 4-km-range Konkurs ATGMs, produced by defence PSU Bharat Dynamics Ltd under licence from French and Russian companies.

As for the third-generation Nag ATGM, with a 4-km strike range, Army has placed an initial order for 443 missiles and 13 Namicas (Nag missile tracked carriers). After 20 years of development, the Nag is only now getting ready to enter the production/induction phase.

The urgency about the fast-dwindling ATGM stock can be gauged from the fact that Army has ordered 4,100 "advanced'' Milan-2T missiles, with "tandem warheads'', as well as 15,000 Konkurs-M missiles over the last couple of years.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...tank-missiles-from-US/articleshow/6320750.cms

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

this is another ploy by the IA to induct less no. of nag missiles.the artcle above says that the delay in induction of nag missile.the IA is testing nag for about 2-3 years and it has acheived every performance objective in each of those tests and never failed once still the are delibaretely delaying its induction so as to purchasethe exceedingly costy javelin atgm out of the taxpayer's money.

 

[sandeepdg]

this is another ploy by the IA to induct less no. of nag missiles.the artcle above says that the delay in induction of nag missile.the IA is testing nag for about 2-3 years and it has acheived every performance objective in each of those tests and never failed once still the are delibaretely delaying its induction so as to purchasethe exceedingly costy javelin atgm out of the taxpayer's money.

Mate, please try to understand, there is a difference between the NAG and the Javelin !! Javelin is a lightweight shoulder fired ATGM with a fire and forget capability, whereas the NAG is a heavier ATGM based on an vehicular platform ! It is not a shoulder fire one, which is more critical for a mobile infantry unit ! Hence these are two different types of ATGM, hence the Army is buying both as both of them are equally important !!

 

[sayareakd]

As per the person who worked on Nag, IA never issued any GSQR for manportable nag, if they issue one we will make one in short time. (asked in Defexpo 2008).

 

[youngindian]

India to buy Javelin missiles to fill gap.


India to buy Javelin missiles to fill gap - UPI.com

 

[Solid Beast]

It is worth the procurement in huge numbers. There is no equivalent atgm. Strategic acquisition by India but I wouldn't doubt if it took years upon years to officially induct. Remember, Pakistan army has ~3,500 TOW-2A and a few early models of HJ-8 and Milan. Altogether with missiles and counting RPG-7 (Type 69) clones there must be about 50,000 atgm systems+ammunition, army uses the rounds very sparingly in training.

Details of Pakistani TOW 2 :

2,769 Radio Frequency (RF) TOW 2A Missiles, 7 RF TOW 2A Fly-to-buy Missiles, 415 RF Bunker Buster Missiles, 7 RF Fly-to-buy Bunker Buster Missiles, upgrade of 121 TOW Basic/TOW-I launchers to fire TOW II configuration for wire-guided and wireless missiles. This augments the already huge yet quickly deterioating stock of BGM-71

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

first of all nag was never meant to be a shoulder launched infantry use atgm .it was designed to be a heavy & vehicle mounted atgm as per army gsqr.recently i read in the internet that in addition to HELINA drdo was looking to develope several different future versions of long range nag, including a man portable version and an all weather milli meter seeker.how do you guys think that US will give us tot of its frontline atgm. also it is exceedingly costly and has not faced any all weather IA trials like the nag or even spike(which was eventually rejected)and only god knows how many more treaties like lsa,beca,cismoa we have to sign with them.if the IA wanted an interim foreign atgm for infantary use till man portable nag is inducted then i think it should have imported the rpg 29 which is very cheap and the insugnent groups in iraq and hamas have used it to destroy merkava 4,and penetrated the main armor of m1a2 abrahms ,challenger 2 on numerous ocassion. without cismoa the quality of javelin supplied by US will be not better than the existing 2nd generation atgm like milan

 

[nitesh]

I think this purchase is only stop gap measure till our home grown system matures. We have already tested MMW seeker, check post 446 in this thread: http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/missiles-aerospace/55-30.htm


quoting the same:

http://mod.nic.in/reports/AR-eng-2010.pdf

page 86:
Millimeter Wave Seeker : Millimeter Wave Seeker with Seeker Servo systems have been developed for Anti-Tank applications and successfully field tested.

 

[lambu]

Aug 17 times of india
While the exact number of Javelin systems India will induct is yet to be decided, it could well run into thousands. The Army, after all, has a shortfall of around 44,000 ATGMs of different types. "Though Army has an authorised holding of 81,206 ATGMs, not even half that number is present in its inventory,'' . Pakistan is inducting a wide array of missiles, including 2,769 TOW-2A heavy anti-armour guided missiles from US.

 

[keshtopatel]

I think this purchase is only stop gap measure till our home grown system matures. We have already tested MMW seeker, check post 446 in this thread: http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/missiles-aerospace/55-30.htm


quoting the same:

MMW:

MM Wave Radar

 

[Parthy]

Indian Army Gets Another Go At The Javelin

DONNELLY TRAINING AREA, Alaska – A soldier from the Indian army fires the Javelin anti-tank missile on November 8 during Yudh Abhyas 2010, an annual bilateral training exercise. A final contract for the Javelin will be signed soon.

http://livefist.blogspot.com/

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I think the Yanks want to do joint-exercise merely to sell their weapons to us. Yanks never change.

 

[Parthy]

JAVELIN Anti-Tank Missiles for Saudi Arabia

The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress today of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Saudi Arabia of 150 JAVELIN Guided Missiles and associated equipment, parts and logistical support for a complete package worth $71 million.

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has requested a possible sale of 150 JAVELIN Guided Missiles, 12 Fly-to-Buy Missiles, 20 JAVELIN Command Launch Units (CLUs) with Integrated Day/Thermal Sight, containers, missile simulation rounds, Enhanced Producibility Basic Skills Trainer (EPBST), rechargeable and non-rechargeable batteries, battery dischargers, chargers, and coolant units, support equipment, spare and repair parts, publications and technical data, U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics personnel services, and other related elements of logistics support.

The estimated cost is $71 million.

This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country which has been and continues to be an important force for political stability and economic progress in the Middle East.

The proposed sale will improve Saudi Arabia's capability to meet current and future threats. Saudi Arabia will use the enhanced capability as a deterrent to regional threats and to strengthen its homeland defense. Saudi Arabia currently does not have JAVELIN Anti-tank missiles in its inventory, but will have no difficulty absorbing these additional missiles.

The proposed sale of these defense articles to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The prime contractors will be Javelin Joint Venture of Raytheon in Tucson, Arizona, and Lockheed Martin, in Orlando Florida. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.

Implementation of this sale will not require the assignment of any U.S. Government or contractor representatives to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale. This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.

http://www.defencetalk.com/javelin-anti-tank-missiles-for-saudi-arabia-30288/

 

[tprop988]

Had you ever experienced Javelin ATGM? If you had then you`ll never have any contradiction in its purchase. If I would have been there in MoD then I would have purchased it with my eyes closed.
Yes Nag program must be promoted but currently what to do? India doesnt have any Man portable ATGM so we are bound to look for a man portable ATGM in the international market. And if nag has to overcome Javelin then DRDO had to work a lot. Javelin weighs 11.8 Kg whereas DRDO is predicting the weight of upcoming man portable NAG ATGM to be around 14 kg.

I experienced Javelin in the training in the OFFICIAL(and I mean official) game of the U.S. ARMY i.e., "US Army:Special Forces" (its an online multiplayer game and we have have to sign in into the game with a user id).
Now dont say that," its just the game kiddo" because really its not just the game but a mirror of the US army. Its not like other games but it shows what happens in the US army. During training, initially I was trained on a simulater of Javelin ATGM. Then I was taken to the real field where I fired 10-20 missiles.

Javelin is an excellent ATGM with a great sight and targeting capability.Its the best. Just awsome. Not getting words to praise it. Its excellent and above all. DRDO really have to work hard in order to get their upcoming product to be sold profitably.

Play Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. You will get more of these Javelins. These are really amazing weapons and it attacks from the top where the armour is the thinnest. You just need to lock on to the Target before firing and the missile does its job with a 100% kill probability. Anything from the range of Tanks to Armoured Personal Carriers and even helicopters(COD:MW2). It is really a futuristic weapon. Amazing.

 

[KS]

Indian Army Gets Another Go At The Javelin

Offtopic:-

But see how the digi camo of the US soldier (Helton) blends in with he surroundings and how that of the Indian soldier stands out like a sore thumb.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Offtopic:-

But see how the digi camo of the US soldier (Helton) blends in with he surroundings and how that of the Indian soldier stands out like a sore thumb.

Its upto the enviorment..

Btw, We dont use those jackets in Operational Zone or even Peace areas..

 

[KS]

Its upto the enviorment..

Do IA has digi camos in accordance with the environment or atleast plans for producing those if not having currently ?

Btw, We dont use those jackets in Operational Zone or even Peace areas..

So they are used specially for training exercises like these ?

 

[tprop988]

Seriously speaking.. The FGM-148 Javelin system the most potent Man Portable ATGM in the world with the highest kill probability as it attacks its target from the top where the armour is the thinnest. But sure its damn costly. One single Javelin missile comes for 40,000 USD and plus the re-usable command unit for additional 125,000 USD. Its going to cost the govt treasury a hell of a lot more then if they would have gone for the Israelly system or the indegeniously developed Man Portable Nag ATGM. Its more of a political decision, denying pakistan the chance to procure it from the US by giving large scale orders to the US. Thats what we call Money Power. It has no doubt killed any chances of indegenious development of the Man Portable Nag ATGM. But obviously it wont kill the NAG ATGM project. Its a totally different system as it is Namica mounted or the Air launched version (helina). But to say the least, the Indian Army has the least interest in any indegeniously developed products. Their attitude is really frustruating. After all clearance given by the Indian Defence Ministry on mass production of the Nag ATGM, the IA made last minute changes to its requirement on the Namica Carrier demanding a panaromic view for both the driver as well as the weapons officer. Why dint they realise it before, when the Namica was undergoing User Trials? The result: the Nag ATGM induction got delayed by another year. By just looking at the IA history one will realize how inclined they are towards foriegn weapon systems. The Arjun MBT being the burning example. After years of development, what the IA does procure it in such low numbers (only 248 in numbers: 124 Mk1 and 124 Mk2). Then why develop indegenious weapons in the first place for the IA if they will more likely go in for foriegn sales.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Do IA has digi camos in accordance with the environment or atleast plans for producing those if not having currently ?

No, Also we lack other type of uniforms like desert, I like Digital camo but i like more Multicam..

So they are used specially for training exercises like these ?

I have no Idea, I presume its given By US authority like they gave us M4s..