India and USA to protect Vietnam from China

[kickok1975]

When Britain and Germany went to war during WW2, they were the biggest trading partners of each other. Country is not all about money, country is made by people, its more complicated than simple trade and commerce. I hope good sense will prevail on both sides and it doesn't go to the extent of "no turning back".

You're right. Country is made by people. Then what's matter to people most in today's world, war or peace?

 

[kickok1975]

Why? because it soothes your petty ego? Always remember this: emotional armies loose war.

You seem pretty emotional in last few posts. Please discuss about topic, don't be side tracked.

 

[amitkriit]

You're right. Country is made by people. Then what's matter to people most in today's world, war or peace?

Peace always, but not at the cost of freedom and dignity. China must not expect that people in other nations have the same aspirations like those in China. Being an Indian, having lived in a free society, I will prefer to die over being trapped in a golden cage.

 

[amitkriit]

You seem pretty emotional in last few posts. Please discuss about topic, don't be side tracked.

I am not emotional at all, in fact my understanding of the world is that those enjoying the absolute power seek more power, their ego is more important to them than the best interest of their people and the whole humanity. Look at Hitler for an example, he grabbed power with public support, but created a hell just for the sake of his own personal goals.

I believe Communist Party of China is treading the same path, because its not accountable to anybody.

 

[kickok1975]

Peace always, but not at the cost of freedom and dignity. China must not expect that people in other nations have the same aspirations like those in China. Being an Indian, having lived in a free society, I will prefer to die over being trapped in a golden cage.

Stop talking about those empty words. Chinese people are not living in vacum and they have a lot way to learn about outside world. We are unfortunately not living in a perfect system but it doesn't mean we are aggressive and don't love peace.

 

[utubekhiladi]

it doesn't mean we are aggressive

tell that to African tribes. they will believe you

 

[Iamanidiot]

The CCP and the Chinese people are two different things .They are not necessarily the one and the same

 

[Tshering22]

India should protect her border from terrorist invasion, worry about her people and economy before actively participate in so called "leadership" by Hillary Clinton. Indian doesn't understand East Asian countries relationship quite well. The right approach is to stay away from fire before wasting money and man power.

Oh dang! You make the entire concept of geo-politics and strategic interests as complicated as rocket science. Is this habit of hyping everything usual or is it just a Communist habit world over wherever they have managed to survive? I mean really. East Asian countries? . Please go and talk about these unity-sort of things to someone else like Pakistanis and North Koreans who are willing to believe every word of what you say. East Asian countries are more on a collision course with you than we ever were.

Southeast Asia was entirely Indian territory under various emperors and south Indian kings for centuries connecting upto Indonesia of today. Do you think we don't know Southeast Asia? Surely you're not telling me that. Please cut this elitist nonsense about how superior and ahead China is. Most of communist philosophy has bitten dust everytime it has tried this silly old gimmick. In Hindi we have a saying which would translate as "in a closed fist, I can claim I have a superweapon, even if it is empty".

I predict the South China sea crisis will resolved in peace and the relationship between China and SEA country will remain stronger then ever before. In one year Vietnam prime minister may visit Beijing, or vice versa. Economy speaks louder than conspiracy. Don't waste your money, that's my suggestion.

I don't know about this, but somehow CCP's definition of words like "Peace", "Liberation", "Freedom" etc somehow does not match with the meanings coined out by rest of the world's dictionaries. Either it is a language issue or simply a reality that there are ulterior motives behind using such words and doing just its opposite.

Economics is not always the contributory factor to relations between two countries. You have the finest of economic relations with Japan and South Korea and yet you remain loggerheads with them. By stealing others' territories and claiming that trade can solve any sort of dispute, you're only deluding yourself. There will be retaliation from any country whose land is being stolen under the guise of trade and commerce and those fancy words like I mentioned in double quotes above.

In terms of trade, Chinese companies simply tend to gain the upper hand through mass production and an extremely well-maintained economies of scale, therefore reducing the local companies of that country to nothing and hence getting hold of that particular market. Cambodia and Vietnam are two fine examples (I cannot say about Burma since it is a very closed country).
You often tend to quantify trade as an attribute as a means to solve territorial disputes. Do you know that just before the world war 2 broke out, what were the trade relations between Allied and Axis countries? I would recommend you to research this a bit yourself.

I don't think so. Drilling doesn't mean alliance. Again, Vietnam is not stupid to fight for US, or even India. China remained a neighbour to Vietam for 3 thousand years. It is most likely so for another 1,000 years. By then, where is US, United states of Mexico?

Of course Drilling doesn't mean alliance. We also drill a lot with USA and even Saudi Arabia for that matter. Does that mean we're allies? No. We're simply partners. Friendship between nations in true sense is very very rare and very difficult to find. It is only as long as mutual interests serve. And Vietnam knows how good USA is in this so they will play their cards very smartly.

Vietnam has been smart enough to thrash PLA out of their lands when they were already fighting USA simultaneously. They are perhaps the only country on earth to have punted a superpower and a regional power out of their lands at the same time despite being divided and technologically weak. And you are talking about their capabilities. Do you really think PLA holds a threat to them? Vietnam doesn't need protection in terms of foreign soldiers, mate. It simply needs more weapons to defend itself. Vietnamese are fierce warriors and to fight with them in dense Southeast Asian terrain is like fighting a crocodile in a lake.

What are you suggesting by neighborliness? Neighborliness is based on geographical location so it is not like they can make an island of their own and move out of the area. We've been your neighbor for the last 10,000+ known years with 2,000 years of solid known friendship. It still changed, didn't it?

Neighborliness suggests nothing when gestures are expansionist and threatening from the other side. Vietnamese know the Americans well and are not emotionally immature like your new sidekicks the Pakistanis. Leave it to them to decide how to take this relationship forward. We've been friends with Vietnam

Vietnam will never do it. They understand for a small country to survive and prosper, they have to remain neutral between major powers and gain benefit from both sides.

Oh but that is their decision to make. When they themselves are encouraging the relationship between us, then what's the harm?

India can act like a chess piece for US to contain China, no problem.

You really talk a lot from experience do you?

Stop talking about those nonsense ideology. Chinese people are not living in vacum and they have a lot way to learn about outside world. We are unfortunately not living in a perfect system but it doesn't mean we are aggressive and don't love peace.

What you love or hate matters little when it comes to what your government has been doing with almost all its neighborhood since 2010 which stretches from Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Brunei, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia to us. That's a whole lot of countries you've got problems with. So what do you have to say for this? Are all of these countries mad to needlessly trouble you at the same time? Or are they that jobless?

 

[kickok1975]

The CCP and the Chinese people are two different things .They are not necessarily the one and the same

That's off topic. In my eyes, Chinese government historically has a habit to compromise territory and Chinese people's interest to calm outside pressure when situation turns much adversely internally so they can focus on domestic issue to maintain their power and so called "stability". Every country has its own problem. In China's case, we have a government not elected by its own people and we don't know what's being negotiated under the table. We could lose more territory from current map before we gain any.

 

[Tshering22]

That's off topic. In my eyes, Chinese government historically has a habit to give away territory and Chinese people's interest to calm outside pressure when situation turns much adversely internally so they can focus on domestic issue to maintain their power and so called "stability". Every country has its own problem. In China's case, we have a government not elected by its own people and we don't know what's being negotiated under the table. We could lose more territory from current map before we gain any.

But how is that any of these Asian countries' fault? Blame the US and face them directly. Had your leaders not soured up ties and attempted stuff like in the years since our conflict, India could have simply remained a neutral negotiator between you and USA. By dragging the whole Eastern and southern Asia into saber-rattling, CCP has simply let common Chinese like you people down.

 

[nrj]

India should protect her border from terrorist invasion, worry about her people and economy before actively participate in so called "leadership" by Hillary Clinton. Indian doesn't understand East Asian countries relationship quite well. The right approach is to stay away from fire before wasting money and man power.

Dont worry. We've our strategists who are doing good so far. And certainly dont need China's arrogant lecture on relationships with east asian countries.

 

[kickok1975]

Oh dang! You make the entire concept of geo-politics and strategic interests as complicated as rocket science. Is this habit of hyping everything usual or is it just a Communist habit world over wherever they have managed to survive? I mean really. East Asian countries? . Please go and talk about these unity-sort of things to someone else like Pakistanis and North Koreans who are willing to believe every word of what you say. East Asian countries are more on a collision course with you than we ever were.

Southeast Asia was entirely Indian territory under various emperors and south Indian kings for centuries connecting upto Indonesia of today. Do you think we don't know Southeast Asia? Surely you're not telling me that. Please cut this elitist nonsense about how superior and ahead China is. Most of communist philosophy has bitten dust everytime it has tried this silly old gimmick. In Hindi we have a saying which would translate as "in a closed fist, I can claim I have a superweapon, even if it is empty".



I don't know about this, but somehow CCP's definition of words like "Peace", "Liberation", "Freedom" etc somehow does not match with the meanings coined out by rest of the world's dictionaries. Either it is a language issue or simply a reality that there are ulterior motives behind using such words and doing just its opposite.

Economics is not always the contributory factor to relations between two countries. You have the finest of economic relations with Japan and South Korea and yet you remain loggerheads with them. By stealing others' territories and claiming that trade can solve any sort of dispute, you're only deluding yourself. There will be retaliation from any country whose land is being stolen under the guise of trade and commerce and those fancy words like I mentioned in double quotes above.

In terms of trade, Chinese companies simply tend to gain the upper hand through mass production and an extremely well-maintained economies of scale, therefore reducing the local companies of that country to nothing and hence getting hold of that particular market. Cambodia and Vietnam are two fine examples (I cannot say about Burma since it is a very closed country).
You often tend to quantify trade as an attribute as a means to solve territorial disputes. Do you know that just before the world war 2 broke out, what were the trade relations between Allied and Axis countries? I would recommend you to research this a bit yourself.



Of course Drilling doesn't mean alliance. We also drill a lot with USA and even Saudi Arabia for that matter. Does that mean we're allies? No. We're simply partners. Friendship between nations in true sense is very very rare and very difficult to find. It is only as long as mutual interests serve. And Vietnam knows how good USA is in this so they will play their cards very smartly.

Vietnam has been smart enough to thrash PLA out of their lands when they were already fighting USA simultaneously. They are perhaps the only country on earth to have punted a superpower and a regional power out of their lands at the same time despite being divided and technologically weak. And you are talking about their capabilities. Do you really think PLA holds a threat to them? Vietnam doesn't need protection in terms of foreign soldiers, mate. It simply needs more weapons to defend itself. Vietnamese are fierce warriors and to fight with them in dense Southeast Asian terrain is like fighting a crocodile in a lake.

What are you suggesting by neighborliness? Neighborliness is based on geographical location so it is not like they can make an island of their own and move out of the area. We've been your neighbor for the last 10,000+ known years with 2,000 years of solid known friendship. It still changed, didn't it?

Neighborliness suggests nothing when gestures are expansionist and threatening from the other side. Vietnamese know the Americans well and are not emotionally immature like your new sidekicks the Pakistanis. Leave it to them to decide how to take this relationship forward. We've been friends with Vietnam



Oh but that is their decision to make. When they themselves are encouraging the relationship between us, then what's the harm?



You really talk a lot from experience do you?



What you love or hate matters little when it comes to what your government has been doing with almost all its neighborhood since 2010 which stretches from Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Brunei, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia to us. That's a whole lot of countries you've got problems with. So what do you have to say for this? Are all of these countries mad to needlessly trouble you at the same time? Or are they that jobless?

I have nothing to say regarding your comments except let us wait to see. I can only speak for myself as a frequent Chinese visitor to this forum with good intention to enhance Sino-India relationship. But many posts and comments here are so hostile and sometimes insulting to China and Chinese poster which triggered unnecessary debate and fight that further distance Chinese and Indian away. Whatever you call China and India today, be it enemy or competitor, it could change 50 years from now. What can I do personally is to look forward to a long term relationship based on historical pattern and make as many Indian friends as I can, and remain a proud Chinese to defend her interest. So bear with me if some of my words sounds offensive to you guys.

 

[Oracle]

US is dragging it's feet on debt re-structuring. What makes you guys think, US gives two hoots about Vietnam?

And of all the news I have read from pravda.ru, made me think if it is into propaganda.

 

[nrj]

I have nothing to say regarding your comments except let us wait to see. I can only speak for myself as a frequent Chinese visitor to this forum with good intention to enhance Sino-India relationship. But many posts and comments here are so hostile and sometimes insulting to China and Chinese poster which triggered unnecessary debate and fight that further distance Chinese and Indian away. Whatever you call China and India today, be it enemy or competitor, it could change 50 years from now. What can I do personally is to look forward to a long term relationship and make as many Indian friends as I can, and remain a proud Chinese to defend her interest.

We appreciate your goodwill gestures on this forum. We are not speaking against any person. We are speaking against China as a state.

And let me tell you, even if we all Indian & Chinese poster on this forum hold hands in hands & sing songs of peace like a happy hippie commune, nothing is going to change. China's arrogance & proxy war against India is not going to stop. That is patronizing & will not allow Indians to change their thoughts.

We dont know if dust of our bones will be there after 50yrs from now. This is about today. And in this low-level cold-war, arming Vietnam & forming anti-china alliance along with US, east asian countries works well for us. So china is free to play its own game like always. And if it prefers proxy war, we'll serve you the same.

 

[pandarunner]

I think U.S. is cable of protecting Vietnam, what Vietnam and U.S. fear or worry most is the rapid growth of China's military power. India surely can sell weapons to Vietnam after sealing the deal, but this is mainly about India and Vietnam, not Vietnam+India vs China, nor a "Cuban Missile Crisis" in Vietnam version.

 

[Tshering22]

I have nothing to say regarding your comments except let us wait to see. I can only speak for myself as a frequent Chinese visitor to this forum with good intention to enhance Sino-India relationship. But many posts and comments here are so hostile and sometimes insulting to China and Chinese poster which triggered unnecessary debate and fight that further distance Chinese and Indian away. Whatever you call China and India today, be it enemy or competitor, it could change 50 years from now.

What can I do personally is to look forward to a long term relationship based on historical pattern and make as many Indian friends as I can, and remain a proud Chinese to defend her interest. So bear with me if some of my words sounds offensive to you guys.

You don't get it do you? We don't want hostilities either. Your intentions are well received here by me as well as all man, but what we discuss by saying 'you' means the CCP a.k.a your government's actions. So far everything that has been anti-India from Chinese side has happened only when Mao seized power in your country. Before that, Indians and Chinese were regular in each others' countries. It couldn't take a more spineless PM than Nehru and his entire political party to make political sacrifices time and again which the CCP interpreted as opportunity and weakness.

Technically if people like you were in your government, this would not be the situation. We are not against Chinese people but until CCP's hold on PLA's mentality of Art of War continues, we can do little in the field of restoring a 2 millennia old friendship.

 

[roma]

LOL! Forget about protecting Vietnam.When are we going to protect ourselves from China? Maybe people forgot the incidents of Chinese incursions in Ladhak,Sikkim and Arunachal. Not to mention intimidation of our Shepherds in Ladhak, reports of firing in sikkim at the border etc.

true !

however doing something is better than nothing .

Even though what you prefered is more logical , at least by joing with the US forces in and around the south china sea , they would learn some and then hopefully the spine and strategy would overflow into better resolve in the map room and on the ground in the border areas youve mentioned . ... so on teh whole, it's gotta be a good idea .

 

[hit&run]

India may disappoint Vietnam on S. China Sea - China.org.cn

If Vietnam chooses to resolve the South China Sea disputes by force, Ye continued, its allies would not be able to protect it. India likely formed its alliance on the understanding that China and Vietnam will not likely enter into large-scale armed conflict. But if Vietnam were to go too far and engage China militarily, India would likely be the first to leave, Ye said.

 

[Tshering22]

India may disappoint Vietnam on S. China Sea - China.org.cn

CCP... they always have this habit of assuming too much. Tsk Tsk... Vietnamese held out on their own when we didn't do anything long back. We simply need to ensure their weapons supply doesn't run dry. The rest, they are more than capable of doing. Last time they themselves were divided and weak and still managed to punt the Dragon out. Now they are a stronger country with no internal issues. Figure that out.

More than just fancy equipment and monstrous factories, it take WILL to fight and win. And Vietnamese have shown that in plenty.

 

[kickok1975]

CCP... they always have this habit of assuming too much. Tsk Tsk... Vietnamese held out on their own when we didn't do anything long back. We simply need to ensure their weapons supply doesn't run dry. The rest, they are more than capable of doing. Last time they themselves were divided and weak and still managed to punt the Dragon out. Now they are a stronger country with no internal issues. Figure that out.

More than just fancy equipment and monstrous factories, it take WILL to fight and win. And Vietnamese have shown that in plenty.

It seems you keep pumping Vietnam. Compare to India, is Vietnam more capable to deal with China?