India and the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG)

[LETHALFORCE]

Enrichment in Light Water Reactors
Light Water Nuclear Reactors
light water reactor percentage of enrichment required is only2- 5%
Even with the necessity of enrichment, it still takes only about 3 kg of natural uranium to supply the energy needs of one American for a year.

Enrichment in heavy Water Reactors
Light Water Nuclear Reactors
For heavy water reactor there is no need to enrich uranium at all!

Enrichment for fast breeder reactors
Enrichment to 15-30% is typical for breeder reactors.

Enrichment for weapons grade reactors
The uranium fuel for fission reactors will not make a bomb; it takes enrichment to over 90% to obtain the fast chain reaction necessary for weapons applications.

This maybe a reason NSG does not want to give ENR tech?? And raises the question do we really need ENR tech??

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nucene/ligwat.html

 

[sukhish]

Going it alone is never the best way - the better option is to find more reliable allies. I think we should seek out like-minded countries of worthwhile capability, including even those in Latin America. Brazil has sufficiently large resources, and long-term aspirations. I think we should cultivate mutual alliance there.

We need a series of thermonuclear tests. There is nothing of significance to be lost, and everything to gain from such tests.

Once we're past the tests, then there is no longer any need for doubt, or beating around the bush. We'll have what we need, and we can proceed forward from there without having to hide or play around with anyone.

thermonuclear test is not the need of the time, they can be done in 2017 also. let just grow at 8-9% for couple of years. the west is slowly but surely losing it's edge.

 

[sanjay]

What leverage do we have to do anything?? MMS negotiations always had us in a compromising position from the start.Now that US is out of the MRCA why would they be interested in supporting this deal for French Russians and Canadians? Bad negotiating from the start, better to let this story end and pursue other avenues. Let's just test something and put an end to this fiasco.

We can drop the C-17 Transport contract. Furthermore, what MRCA purchase did Pakistan have to make in order to get US approval/acquiescence to the Chinese reactors being supplied to it? None.

As if US MRCA bid was even a half-decent one! Their offer was insulting, consisting of their oldest possible aircraft. They really think we're the same Indians from whom they bought Manhattan Island for a song.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

We can drop the C-17 Transport contract. Furthermore, what MRCA purchase did Pakistan have to make in order to get US approval/acquiescence to the Chinese reactors being supplied to it? None.

As if US MRCA bid was even a half-decent one! Their offer was insulting, consisting of their oldest possible aircraft. They really think we're the same Indians from whom they bought Manhattan Island for a song.

We may not go that far but we need to do a better job of expressing our feelings(yesterday we opened up the 1 trillion dollar infrastructure buildout to US company bids) Unless MMS is a sellout as many have labelled him??

 

[LETHALFORCE]

there you go russia. they just don't want India to spread its wing. the prudent thing would be take the nuclear fuel from these countries and keep growing at 8 to 9%. In the next couple of years they will realize their position is not sustanable.

play these countries of each other to get the best bids, no one is a true friend anymore they are all in it for the money and as I mentioned before let China in the bidding just to show we are not willing to be a buffer against China as they wanted us to be when the deal was given and to possibly have the Pakistani easy China nuclear pass in the NSG also scrutinized more closely.

 

[sanjay]

Article by Brahma Chellany. Note he was against this deal from the start, so article may be a bit biased

Nuclear chickens come home to roost

He was against this deal from the start because he saw the problems with it from the start. That makes him biased towards reality and foresight. Meanwhile, Congress only cared about securing foreign backing, so that it could rule India as a One Party State - its real ambition, rather than anything related to national progress.

 

[sukhish]

He was against this deal from the start because he saw the problems with it from the start. That makes him biased towards reality and foresight. Meanwhile, Congress only cared about securing foreign backing, so that it could rule India as a One Party State - its real ambition, rather than anything related to national progress.

congress is not enjoying a good public support now a days, and I doubt it will come to power in next elections.
So I'm not as pessimistic about the future.

 

[sukhish]

play these countries of each other to get the best bids, no one is a true friend anymore they are all in it for the money and as I mentioned before let China in the bidding just to show we are not willing to be a buffer against China as they wanted us to be when the deal was given and to possibly have the Pakistani easy China nuclear pass in the NSG also scrutinized more closely.

Core concern
Core concern - Indian Express

everybody was enjoying when nuclear liability was passed. and now U.S refused to put it's weight behind it.
Get use to these things.

 

[sukhish]

and now this.

Russia says it'll implement its commitments on civil nuclear pact
"ŽRussia says it'll implement its commitments on civil nuclear pact - The Times of India

anyway all these technologies would be under safeguards, I don't know what is the fuss about

 

[sanjay]

congress is not enjoying a good public support now a days, and I doubt it will come to power in next elections.
So I'm not as pessimistic about the future.

Congress will rig the elections to keep themselves in power no matter what. Why do you think they got their man Navin Chawla made Election Commissioner previously? He was cited by the Supreme Court for being one of the Congress henchmen during the 1975 Emergency! And he got to select his successor, who are all clones of him.

Congress has learned a lot since the Emergency - this time they're resorting to a more subtle cocktail of different approaches (Electronic Voting Machines, massive bribery, vote-buying and corruption - and very importantly, external support by selling out to foreign interests). And they are perfectly fine with doing this, because they are a State Within a State - they are dedicated to their own survival and preservation of their power, rather than India.

Congress intends to keep India locked under de facto One Party rule.

 

[ejazr]

US strongly supports NSG clean waiver for India : Roemer - PTI -

The United States today said it "strongly and vehemently" supports the NSG clean waiver for India and hoped that the civil nuclear deal between the two countries will continue to move in a positive direction.

"I want to say that the US and the Obama Administration strongly and vehemently support the clean waiver for India. The 123 civil nuclear legislation also underscores our support for India in this debate that is going on and our law also points to the clean waiver for India," US Ambassador to India Timothy J Roemer told reporters.

On his last day in office here, the US envoy was asked about the American support for India to get the clean waiver from the Nuclear Supplier's Group.

The 46-member Nuclear Suppliers Group(NSG), the elite nuclear club, last week decided to push for more stringent norms that govern technology transfer for reprocessing technology. This decision has raised concerns about its impact on the landmark civil nuclear deal India signed with the US.

"With India's commitment and as they look to ratify the Convention on Supplementary Compensation for Nuclear Damage (CSC) and they work closely with the US companies, I am hopeful that the civil nuclear agreement will continue to move in a positive direction," he added.

There have been indications that India was in touch with NSG and that the recent decision will not adversely impact the India-specific agreement with NSG.

Asked to comment on the issue of pat-down searches on Indian dignitaries at the US airports, the Ambassador said America was working on these issues to prevent their recurrence in future.

"When Janet Napolitano (US Homeland Security Secretary) was here, she said that we are working to improve how when you have a minister or a very important person (VIP) travelling to the United States... takes place without incidence. We are coordinating more and more on travel itineraries so that those experiences don't take place in future," Roemer said.

In the recent past, Indian Ambassador to the US Meera Shankar and a few other diplomats were subjected to pat-down search at the US airports over which India had registered its protest.

Roemer said looking at the bigger picture, one finds that India and the US have come closer to each other in the last ten years and many "positive developments" have taken place in this time period between the two countries.

"We are working closely today in the fields of intelligence sharing and counter terrorism. We are working together on global issues and both India and US want a peaceful Afghanistan," he said.

Roemer said the media should also concentrate on the positives of the relationship along with the "occasional hiccups and the challenges faced by the relationship". Summing up his achievements in his two-year tenure in
the country, Roemer said the two countries have moved closer in a number of areas.

"We have seen significant improvement in strategic defence cooperation including the recently agreed sale of the C-17," he said.

Roemer said the two countries have moved closer on regional issues as peace in Afghanistan was in the "strategic interest" of both the countries and they were also working closely on the issue of Bangladesh and Africa.

He said there was more scope for the two countries to work together in the future in several areas including economics and trade which will be mutually beneficial.

"US is struggling with nine per cent unemployment rate and India is dealing with some of the issues like rising food prices and infrastructure... We believe that the US can help out in these areas in economic cooperation and infrastructure building. This will benefit both the countries," he said.

Roemer took up his India assignment in August 2009 and resigned from his post in April citing personal commitments.

 

[S.A.T.A]

The entire debate on nuclear technology,safeguards,restriction waivers, has been thrown wide open with the post Fukushima disaster and the ripples it has created in the international debate on sustainability of safe nuclear technology.Germany has exiled itself from the field of generating nuclear power for civilian use,Japan and many other leading players, in the civilian nuclear technology field, are contemplating the same,where does this leave India.

All though the govt has asserted rather vehemently that it was committed to increasing the share of nuclear energy in the overall national power out and is aggressive on setting up the required infrastructure of achieve the goal,there are doubts about its resolution to back this confidence.

Is India still serious about going ahead with plan of constructing 20 odd new nuclear power reactors,even if it is serious, it must now content with the strong anti nuclear lobby,emboldened by the scenes in japan and with increasing support from the civic society,which has huge and new concerns about the safety of these nuclear plants,who have renewed their demand that India reconsider its grand nuclear power ambitions.

The govt will not find the going easy this time and the worry about our ability to ensure the perpetual safety of nuclear plants has now cut all party and ideological lines.If India decides to abandon its grand nuclear power generation plans or even make significant cut backs on previously stated goals,where does that leave the assortment of nuclear deals we have cut with the various countries.

 

[pankaj nema]

With hydrocarbons such as oil and gas running out and coal being responsible for global warming , countries like India and China have no other choice but to go for Nuclear energy

The growing energy demand in India and China will ensure that global Nuclear industry will survive the Fukushima disaster

In nuclear industry safety ; ie preventing accidents ; was always given top priority and now security will become an obsession for nuclear industry

 

[Yusuf]

There is no go for India but to embrace nuke tech wholeheartedly. Our energy requirement will go through the roof in the next decade. It cannot be fulfilled with coal and oil not can it be with renewable sources.

Better technology, better safety measures is what's required but nuke power has to become a huge component of Indias energy supply.

 

[anoop_mig25]

Core concern
Core concern - Indian Express

that u for positing the link . here is what writer says in same article

While the new ENR guidelines are a setback, ground realities can be altered by astute diplomacy. After all, NSG guidelines are voluntary, so that its member states can have the flexibility necessary to deal with issues related to nuclear commerce . It is this flexibility that India should try to use to its advantage.

if its true then i donot think we have to worry about it as i said earlier every powerfull nation tries to fool members of NSG

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The safety issue related to Japan is not so much a factor. Japanese reactor crisis from their earthquake is related to Japan. India went thru a similar or worst incident with the Asian sunami and the Tamil nadu reactor was unscathed.

 

[S.A.T.A]

The safety issue is the cause for greatest anxiety.In the backdrop of the Fukushima disaster,the civic society will demand the govt explain in more concrete terms what safety aspect will be adopted so that the new facilities may survive a fate similar to the Japanese reactor.This will probably mean the govt will have to state in black and white what additional safety measures will required to be added to the plan of the nuclear facilities,will the govt agree to discard existing designs,such that we already have and those that are international standards and insist foreign partners involved in design of the nuclear power plants come up with new design that satisfy the new safety requirements,will such change be feasible in terms of cost overheads and long term economic viability of these plants.

irrespective of what the govt's think,they are never fully committal on assuring 100% fool proof safety of something as sensitive as nuclear power plant,unfortunately a nuclear disaster,like the Fukushima meltdown,cannot be compared to any natural or man made disaster we have come to know.A nuclear meltdown is not the same as a breach in a mega dam,its implication are far reaching and long term.Nuclear contamination means abandoning the site and large areas surrounding the site not just for decades,but for centuries and millennia.

The pertinent question is,for such a densely populated country like India,to what extent can the govt assure that safety measures are really safe enough,what if we had to wake up one day to find it was not good enough,these were probably the same anxieties which forced Germany to bid to goodbye to nuclear power,the risks are just enormous.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

So far only the Russians have progressed a little bit on the safety/liability issue no one else has anything concrete that we have deals with, and nothing is official yet and may not be for awhile after Japan.

 

[S.A.T.A]

The Japanese have truly played spoil sport with all our nuclear ambition,until now i had been a supporter of India's aggressive move to ramp up its nuclear power generation capabilities,the debate veering around the Indo-US nuclear deal was one of rare occasions in recent times where i supported the UPA govt.I was among those who consoled themselves on the notion that nuclear disaster could only happen to the incompetent soviets,I'm not sure about that anymore.

We often associate the Japanese,whatever the merit of the presumption,with a certain level of competence and efficiency,not to mention mastery over technology,which invokes a sense of envy and calls for emulation,and if this could happen to the Japanese....

The Japanese have extracted a terrible retribution on the rest of worlds nuclear ambitions..

 

[Yusuf]

Japanese example does not work in Indias case. We are not an island nation susceptible to Tsunamis for the entire length of the country. India suffered from Tsunami triggered by an earthquake hundreds of miles away in another country, Japan was consumed in a Tsunami triggered by an earthquake in it's own country and because it's an island country, the Tsunamis were generated and all the destruction thereafter. Japan faced the full brunt if the Tsunami.

Japan is in the ring of fire, India is not. Most nuke plants in India are not in high risk earthquake areas. We can chose stable areas for our nuke plants.

What India should think about is any other eventuality that could be a safety issue. I cannot think of any. Just that normal safety procedures should be in place with redundancy to make sure no accidents take place.

One thing India should worry about is disposal of radioactive waste and take steps for that as a lot more of such waste will pile up with so many reactors being planned.