India all set to procure Predator drone from US after MTCR membership

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Next, Trump To Clear Avenger Drones For India?
Shiv AroorAug 20 2017

It’s one of the most secretive U.S. defence contractors. Justifiably. But General Atomics had a bit of a coming out last week, hosting journalists at its California headquarters for the first time ever. With virtually every one of its products yoked to the very highest U.S. government/military export restrictions and oversight, it is hardly any surprise that GA has internalised the low profile it puts into the systems it builds. That’s one of the reasons why the August 15-16 press ‘open house’ was a story all by itself.

The other big story was a headline-worthy indication that GA is hoping to see interest from a foreign customer in the Predator C/Avenger armed drone fructify into a government contract. While GA President David Alexander wouldn’t mention the country, it is widely believed he meant India.

Assuming India is indeed the apple of this fresh push — and there’s every reason to trust it is — it presents a fascinating turn of events. The Indian government officially requested the possible sale of 100 Predator C/Avenger drones early in mid 2016. With India at that time not yet a signatory to the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) that governs trade in missile systems beyond a certain range, the Obama administration didn’t play ball. India was persuaded in the interim to accept a fleet of MQ-9B Sea Guardian unarmed maritime drones, an export that was cleared by the Trump administration in June when Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited the U.S. News from the GA open house last week now makes it virtually certain that India’s original Avenger request is far from a crumpled piece of paper at the State Dept. or Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) that administers foreign military sales.

To be sure, the path to any potential deal for Avenger drones is littered with process, budgetary and political hurdles on both sides — and that could necessarily clock up into years. Several, possibly. So the nugget from GA only provides confirmation of a possible future sale, not an assurance that things will happen quickly.

Confirmation of India’s foot still wedged in the door for Avenger drones means the country could potentially operate at least two foreign armed drone types going forward. In 2015, India decided to contract for 10 IAI Eitan/Heron TP hunter-killer drones, deliveries of which are expected to begin later this year or early 2018.

The unmanned strike aircraft space isn’t exactly sitting around in the area. China’s Wing Loong II armed drone, which debuted in the west this year at the Le Bourget show, is currently known to be in advanced stages of testing strike weapons. It is also virtually certain that the drone is or will be made available to Pakistan in an armed configuration.

What we do know is that the Indian Air Force has begun to create planning space for armed unmanned aircraft and UCAVs, though it is still doctrinally a distance away from ready. Budgetary turbulence continues to buffet the IAF’s priority freedom, but that hasn’t stopped it from making firm requests for platforms like the Avenger, given the huge lead time now typical to most Indian armament contracting. On the flip side, it suggests a certain capability fork-in-the-road that is being seen as an imperative, especially given the developing atmosphere on borders with both China and Pakistan. Livefist can confirm that the IAF factors armed drones into a simulated future battlespace vision that’s part of its current planning studies. Just when such drones will be part of the mix remains unclear.

India is also developing its Rustom/Tapas MALE drone for future weapons carriageand will shortly begin prototype shaping studies on the Ghatak stealth UCAV concept, both programmes revealed first here on Livefist.
 

F-14B

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Next, Trump To Clear Avenger Drones For India?
Shiv AroorAug 20 2017

It’s one of the most secretive U.S. defence contractors. Justifiably. But General Atomics had a bit of a coming out last week, hosting journalists at its California headquarters for the first time ever. With virtually every one of its products yoked to the very highest U.S. government/military export restrictions and oversight, it is hardly any surprise that GA has internalised the low profile it puts into the systems it builds. That’s one of the reasons why the August 15-16 press ‘open house’ was a story all by itself.

The other big story was a headline-worthy indication that GA is hoping to see interest from a foreign customer in the Predator C/Avenger armed drone fructify into a government contract. While GA President David Alexander wouldn’t mention the country, it is widely believed he meant India.

Assuming India is indeed the apple of this fresh push — and there’s every reason to trust it is — it presents a fascinating turn of events. The Indian government officially requested the possible sale of 100 Predator C/Avenger drones early in mid 2016. With India at that time not yet a signatory to the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) that governs trade in missile systems beyond a certain range, the Obama administration didn’t play ball. India was persuaded in the interim to accept a fleet of MQ-9B Sea Guardian unarmed maritime drones, an export that was cleared by the Trump administration in June when Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited the U.S. News from the GA open house last week now makes it virtually certain that India’s original Avenger request is far from a crumpled piece of paper at the State Dept. or Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) that administers foreign military sales.

To be sure, the path to any potential deal for Avenger drones is littered with process, budgetary and political hurdles on both sides — and that could necessarily clock up into years. Several, possibly. So the nugget from GA only provides confirmation of a possible future sale, not an assurance that things will happen quickly.

Confirmation of India’s foot still wedged in the door for Avenger drones means the country could potentially operate at least two foreign armed drone types going forward. In 2015, India decided to contract for 10 IAI Eitan/Heron TP hunter-killer drones, deliveries of which are expected to begin later this year or early 2018.

The unmanned strike aircraft space isn’t exactly sitting around in the area. China’s Wing Loong II armed drone, which debuted in the west this year at the Le Bourget show, is currently known to be in advanced stages of testing strike weapons. It is also virtually certain that the drone is or will be made available to Pakistan in an armed configuration.

What we do know is that the Indian Air Force has begun to create planning space for armed unmanned aircraft and UCAVs, though it is still doctrinally a distance away from ready. Budgetary turbulence continues to buffet the IAF’s priority freedom, but that hasn’t stopped it from making firm requests for platforms like the Avenger, given the huge lead time now typical to most Indian armament contracting. On the flip side, it suggests a certain capability fork-in-the-road that is being seen as an imperative, especially given the developing atmosphere on borders with both China and Pakistan. Livefist can confirm that the IAF factors armed drones into a simulated future battlespace vision that’s part of its current planning studies. Just when such drones will be part of the mix remains unclear.

India is also developing its Rustom/Tapas MALE drone for future weapons carriageand will shortly begin prototype shaping studies on the Ghatak stealth UCAV concept, both programmes revealed first here on Livefist.
if the Trump administration clears this for India then expect fire and Brimstone in Lawhore , Pindi and slamabad :pound: and expect Paik media personalities like Aniqa and Hamid mea and other chaityas to cry about the slipping balance :pound:
 

devhensh

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Trump will clear this deal :) profuse undie browning expected on the Western front
Amen !!! US has no bigger friend in the world than India ...making India stronger with these critical Tech transfers is in US interest...especially in these very turbulent times....
 

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$2-bn procurement of Sea Guardian drones kicks off
On Wednesday, the government disclosed India’s next major defence purchase from the United States – the procurement of Sea Guardian unmanned aerial systems (UAS) to patrol the waters off the Indian coastline.

The contract for an estimated 22 Sea Guardian drones will be worth approximately $2 billion. Like most defence platforms that New Delhi has bought from Washington over the last decade, this deal is being pursued on a government-to-government basis, and with no manufacture in India.

The defence minister told Parliament in writing today in response to a Member’s question: “Request for Information (RFI) for Predator ‘B’ Sea Guardian [drones] was issued to the US Office of Defence Cooperation on 14.11.2017 (November 14) and response is awaited”.

“Procurement of Predator ‘B’ Sea Guardian is being progressed under Buy (Global) category [of the Defence Procurement Procedure of 2016] and no transfer of technology is envisaged,” stated the minister’s response.

In June, a joint statement after Prime Minister Narendra Modi met President Donald Trump in Washington DC noted that the US has offered India the sale of Sea Guardian Unmanned Aerial Systems, to “enhance India’s capabilities and promote shared security interests.”

The Sea Guardian will add to $5 billion worth of weaponry already in the pipeline from the US. That includes four Boeing P-8I Poseidon maritime aircraft for a billion dollars; one C-17 Globemaster III for $366 million; $3 billion worth of helicopters – including 22 AH-64E Apache attack helicopters and 15 CH-47F Chinook heavy lifters – and a $700 million order for 145 M-777 ultra-light howitzers.

The Sea Guardian, built by US firm General Atomics, is the naval version of the legendary Predator B armed drone (also termed the MQ-9 Reaper), with which the US has killed terrorists in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Yemen. India had asked for the armed version, but Washington has only offered the unarmed Sea Guardian, which performs maritime surveillance.

Travelling at 300 kilometres per hour at 50,000 feet, the Sea Guardian flies 14-hour missions to monitor waters 1,800 km from base. It sends imagery in real time to a ground control room on base, which flies the drone through a two-way data link.

Pointing out that India is the first non-NATO country to which Washington has agreed to export the Sea Guardian, US industry experts tell Business Standard India’s designation as a US “major defence partner” opened the doors for the sale.

Being a “Category 1” system under the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), Sea Guardians are they are tightly controlled because of their presumed ability to also deliver nuclear weapons.

MTCR member countries are required to adopt a “presumption of denial” for all requests for “Category 1” systems, except on pressing national security grounds. So far, Washington has cleared sales of the Sea Guardian only to US allies that are engaged in active combat operations in alliance with US military forces. Operators include France, Italy, Netherlands, Spain and the United Kingdom.

According to a The New York Times report in June, pro-Indian US congressmen facilitated the Sea Guardian clearance. After three Indian requests to the Pentagon, Senators John Cornyn and Mark Warner wrote to Defence Secretary James Mattis and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson to clear the sale, to “advance US national security interests and protect US jobs.”

India’s own RPV development programme is relatively primitive. Updating parliament on Wednesday, the defence minister revealed: “The development of Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) Rustom-II is an indigenous effort wherein majority of the sub-systems like airframe, landing gear, avionics systems, flight control systems and datalink systems have been developed indigenously through various private industries. Sub-systems like propulsion systems, sensor systems and payloads have been currently imported for which indigenous development has been undertaken through sister DRDO labs [Defence R&D Organisation laboratories]”.

http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=525225
 

WolfPack86

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US kicks off procedure to release state-of-the-art Avenger Drones to the IAF
he US government has commenced its internal process to release armed Avenger (formerly Predator C) drones to the Indian Air Force (IAF).

The acquisition of these machines is strategically important for New Delhi given the region’s geopolitics. Over the last decade, Israeli drones have been procured in significant quantities by all three armed forces.

Sources have told FE: “The much-awaited two-by-two dialogue involving the foreign and defence ministers of both countries (India and US) will consider this topic of armed Avenger drones when they meet in the first quarter of 2018. The meeting, originally planned for January, has apparently been pushed to April.”

As reported by FE earlier, during the US secretary of defence James Mattis’s visit earlier this year, the Indian Army had expressed interest in buying the Avenger UAV from the US-based General Atomics. It was also decided that the request would be added along with that of the IAF. In October, during the annual press meet, Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa confirmed that they would be keen to consider if US releases that technology.

Renowned global aerospace expert Dr Vivek Lall who was in charge at Boeing Company a decade ago to bring the then latest technology of P8I for the Indian Navy has been a key figure to continue to cement defence relations with these drone platforms sales which are not offered to any other non NATO countries.

Sources also told FE ‘the US administration and India have larger joint Make in India defence pursuits on the anvil beyond the drone sales as a next step.”

When US secretary of state Rex Tillerson and external affairs minister Sushma Swaraj had met in New Delhi in October, it was decided that the new 2-by-2 ministerial dialogue as announced by the US President Donald Trump will take place early next year.

The IAF requires a huge number of drones especially for contested airspace in the years to come. The projection of drone requirements is in the hundreds by all three services and is only limited by prioritisation of defence budget allocations.

The US Air Force and Indian Navy have apparently made significant progress in government to government discussions on the sale of 22 Guardian unmanned aircraft system (UAS) high altitude long-endurance (HALE) aircraft that was announced by Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President Trump in June.

It is expected that this deal will be inked in 2018. And the numbers are expected to go up as India is pursuing its Blue Economy and the Navy will be protecting the trade lanes as well as conducting anti piracy operations.

Acknowledging India’s positive contributions to regional security and stability, including in matters beyond the maritime space, both India and US are having further consultations in maritime domain awareness (MDA) area.

http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=525384
 

SELVAM

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Our UAVs will help in Taking Pictures ie Reconaissance Drones

UCAVs are a Different ball game altogether ; we cannot do that
What's use the use of this armed drone. Did we going to use armed drones to target Maoists?
 

SELVAM

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To be frank this deal is appear to be another appeasement deal. We cant use this drones against any country with air defence system. Within india also we r not going to use this armed drones. Only some dalals in airforce and defence ministry will benefit from this deal
 

Screambowl

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I honestly don't trust IAF any more.
...................................................................................
 

pankaj nema

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To be frank this deal is appear to be another appeasement deal. We cant use this drones against any country with air defence system. Within india also we r not going to use this armed drones. Only some dalals in airforce and defence ministry will benefit from this deal
It will be used to take out Paki Launch Pads

The Hell Fire Missile has a Range of Eight KM

We can fire it from well within our territory

The only way Pakistan can detect them is to deploy RADARS
at Forward Positions on the LOC which they cannot do so
because we will take them out with Artillery

You have Forgotten that During September 29 2016 Surgical Strikes ; Our Drones were constantly Taking Pictures and sending them Below to ground stations
 

SELVAM

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It will be used to take out Paki Launch Pads

The Hell Fire Missile has a Range of Eight KM

We can fire it from well within our territory

The only way Pakistan can detect them is to deploy RADARS
at Forward Positions on the LOC which they cannot do so
because we will take them out with Artillery

You have Forgotten that During September 29 2016 Surgical Strikes ; Our Drones were constantly Taking Pictures and sending them Below to ground stations
:rofl::rofl:

Did you forget iranis,Syrian even houthis r downing US drones.
These drones r slow moving objects designed fight US's COIN operations. A decent manpad will down this drones. A total wastage deal
 

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@SELVAM you seriously need to brush up you knowledge on this matters. This drone is not for IAF, its for Navy. Moreover they are not UCAV, but UAV for reconnaissance on high sea. India is not getting any armed drones. As far as indigenous UAV is concerned, its still long way to go. We do need something in between.

BTW one question for you. Did HERON killed our UAV programme?
 

SELVAM

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@SELVAM you seriously need to brush up you knowledge on this matters. This drone is not for IAF, its for Navy. Moreover they are not UCAV, but UAV for reconnaissance on high sea. India is not getting any armed drones. As far as indigenous UAV is concerned, its still long way to go. We do need something in between.

BTW one question for you. Did HERON killed our UAV programme?
Above news is about possible avenger drones to IAF
 

Chinmoy

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Above news is about possible avenger drones to IAF
Stop reading headlines and start reading in between lines.

Sources have told FE: “The much-awaited two-by-two dialogue involving the foreign and defence ministers of both countries (India and US) will consider this topic of armed Avenger drones when they meet in the first quarter of 2018. The meeting, originally planned for January, has apparently been pushed to April.”
There is no formal discussion yet, leave alone contract. Even IN wanted armed version of Guardian.
 

Prashant12

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Trump administration agrees to supply Predator drones to India

Although the Pentagon had cleared the sale of 22 Guardian naval surveillance drones to India, New Delhi was insistent that given the costs involved, it was in favour of acquiring an armed drone which operates over both land and sea.


In a bid to substantially enhance India’s so-called stand-off weapon capabilities, the Trump administration in the United States has agreed to supply long endurance high-altitude surveillance armed unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV), which are capable of hunting and destroying targets across seas and over land borders.

Indian and US diplomatic officials confirmed to Hindustan Times that the Pentagon’s decision to supply Predator-B drones to Indian military has been conveyed through official channels and that it is now up to the Narendra Modi government to take the final call based on the overall cost of India’s drone programme. The matter was taken up during official level meetings attended by National Security Advisor Ajit Doval, foreign secretary Vijay Gokhale and defence secretary in Washington last month, they added.

Manufactured by General Atomics, Predator-B has both land and naval versions and can be armed with air-to-land missiles, anti-ship missiles and laser guided bombs.

Stand-off capabilities refer to the ability to strike without fear of the defensive capabilities of the target.

Although the Pentagon had cleared the sale of 22 Guardian naval surveillance drones to India, New Delhi was insistent that given the costs involved, it was in favour of acquiring an armed drone which operates over both land and sea. “Purchase of the Guardian drone through government to government route did not make sense as even if the unarmed drone identifies a hostile target over Indian Ocean, Bay of Bengal or Arabian Sea, it will have to request for Boeing P- 8I Neptune (aircraft) to destroy the target. The time lag and effort is not worth the while. The Indian need is an armed drone which not only locates but hunts down the target,” said a senior Indian government official who asked not to be identified.

The other Indian worry is about encryption keys to weaponised drone. Essentially, Indian national security planners are worried whether the US will also have control of the armed drones and could theoretically jam them . e US defence manufacturers have dismissed this concern by saying that India will have all the encryption keys for the armed drone.

This question, and the issue of the sale of the drones will come up before the technical team of Office of Secretary of Defence (OSD) policy arrives in the Capital on May 3-4, 2018 to discuss the Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA) with Defence Ministry officials. India needs to sign COMCASA and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement (BECA) for operating highly advanced US defence platforms requiring secured communication and spatial equipment.

The Indian and US officials said the sale of armed drones could also come up during the two-plus-two dialogue between external affairs minister Sushma Swaraj and defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman with newly-appointed US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Secretary of Defence Jim Mattis in Washington later this month.

While Indian national security planners are pleased over the US nod to armed drones, the cost, logistics and maintenance of the UAVs is prohibitive due to separate command and control centres and requirement of round the clock combat vigil.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...es-to-india/story-03t9x05AMfohGJEbnm2olM.html
 

mayfair

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I will believe it when I see it. It's high time we started building our own frigging drones...
 

Armand2REP

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I will believe it when I see it. It's high time we started building our own frigging drones...
The Americans want $2 billion for these drones... will there be a scandal?
 

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