IN Scorpene Submarines - News & Discussions

[LETHALFORCE]

why hasn't the Indian govt considered looking into the German U-214 when scorpenes arrive in 4 years later and 10+ years after the deal has been signed they will probably have a few years of service and still be substandard.

 

[slenke]

I know the differences ahmed but my point was why are we able to build a more complicated nuclear submarine and not a less complicated diesel-electric sub?? by this point we should be making them indigenously. Russians have their kilos and Lada, as far as AIP goes the swedes are the most advanced in the world they have the next generation out with the A26 sub- sterling system,and a good sized deal would possibly even come with a TOT.

A26 is given an official go-ahead.

I think India should join the project. And if it would participate, it might be able to join the development and construction process. On hands "know-how" and "know-why" from scratch basically.

Sweden to Invest In New Submarines

The Swedish military is set to shell out billions of kronor for two new state-of the-art submarines while also upgrading two older vessels, defence minister Sten Tolgfors has revealed, defence minister Sten Tolgfors has revealed.

Writing in the Sunday edition of Stockholm daily Svenska Dagbladet, the minister conceded that the Baltic Sea area remained stable, with only Kaliningrad and St. Petersburg breaking the circle of EU and NATO-affiliated countries.

"However, one can never rule out long-term risks and incidents, which could also be of a military nature," Tolgfors wrote. The multi-billion kronor investment is to be included in next week's spring budget proposal, he added.

Ship builder Kockums said in February that it had signed a contract with FMV (the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration) regarding the construction of next-generation submarines.

“This is an important first step, not only for Kockums, but for the Swedish Armed Forces as a whole," said Kockums CEO Alfredsson in a statement released at the time.

"We shall now be able to maintain our position at the cutting edge of submarine technology, which is vital in the light of current threat scenarios. HMS Gotland demonstrated what she is capable of during two years of joint exercises in the water off the USA. This next-generation submarine marks a further refinement of technology”, he said.

Until now however the Swedish government had not given any indication of the scope of its plans. Along with the two new vessels, two Gotland class attack submarines will also receive major upgrades as part of the investment.

Tolgfors said the move would ensure that Sweden's submarine fleet maintained its "top international calibre". The minster also shared Kockums' view that the next-generation Swedish submarine would attract a great deal of interest abroad and would likely lead to export deals in the future.

http://www.defencetalk.com/sweden-to-invest-in-new-submarines-25689/

 

[nandu]

Delay in Scorpene submarines won't impact on force levels: Antony

The delivery of Scorpene submarines to the Indian Navy has been delayed by three years but this will not impact on its force levels, parliament was informed Monday.

'A programme of construction of six Scorpene submarines is currently underway at Mazagon Docks Limited (MDL) under transfer of technology from a French company. As per the contract, the first submarine was scheduled to be delivered in December 2012 and thereafter one each every year till December 2017,' Defence Minister A.K. Antony said during question hour in the Lok Sabha.

'There has been a delay due to initial teething problems, absorption of technology and augmentation of MDL purchased material. The first submarine is now expected to be delivered in the second half of 2015,' he added.

'However, the gap in submarine capacity has been addressed by modernisation with the state-of-the-art weapon and sensor fit on the existing submarines which have significantly enhanced their combatworthiness against any eventuality,' Antony pointed out.

http://sify.com/finance/delay-in-sc...e-levels-antony-news-default-ke0q4bddebj.html

 

[nitesh]

ToI says 3 year delay:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/5861695.cms

 

[nandu]

Indian Navy to receive first Scorpene by 2015

The Indian Scorpenes are being built at Mazagon Dock Limited. The last three will have the AIP module.

The first Scorpene submarine is expected to be delivered to the Indian Navy after mid-2015 instead of 2012 and the delay is likely to impact the force levels of the Service, Government has said.

"There has been a delay due to initial teething problems, absorption of technology, augmentation of MDL infrastructure and procurement of MDL Purchased Material (MPM). The first submarine is now expected to be delivered in second half of 2015," Defence Minister A K Antony said in a written reply to a query in Lok Sabha on Monday.

India had signed a deal worth around Rs 18,000 crore with France in 2004 for six conventional submarines. As per the original schedule, the first submarine was to be delivered by 2012 and thereafter one every year till 2017.

The defence minister said the delay in supply of the underwater vessels is "likely to have an impact on the envisaged force level".

However, he said the gap in submarine capacity has been addressed by modernisation and upgradation of the existing fleet of underwater vessels to increase their combat-worthiness.

Antony said the government has recently accorded approval for revision in the cost of Scorpene project on account of increase in cost of MPM items and related MDL infrastructure.

The submarines are under-construction at the Mazagon Dockyards Limited in Mumbai and French company DCNS is working on the project.

Replying to another query, the Minister said Acceptance of Necessity (AON) has been accorded for construction of additional submarines under the Project 75 (India) and the proposal is being progressed at the moment.

http://www.brahmand.com/news/Indian-Navy-to-receive-first-Scorpene-by-2015/3741/1/12.html

 

[nandu]

Snapshots From The Scorpene Production Line At Mazagon

As a result of major slippages and Mazagon Dock's inability to absorb certain technologies expediently -- but mostly through shoddy forward planning -- India's first Scorpene will only be delivered in the second half of 2015, instead of 2012. Scam or incompetence?

http://livefist.blogspot.com/

 

[AJSINGH]

Delay in Scorpene submarines won't impact on force levels: Antony

The delivery of Scorpene submarines to the Indian Navy has been delayed by three years but this will not impact on its force levels, parliament was informed Monday.

'A programme of construction of six Scorpene submarines is currently underway at Mazagon Docks Limited (MDL) under transfer of technology from a French company. As per the contract, the first submarine was scheduled to be delivered in December 2012 and thereafter one each every year till December 2017,' Defence Minister A.K. Antony said during question hour in the Lok Sabha.

'There has been a delay due to initial teething problems, absorption of technology and augmentation of MDL purchased material. The first submarine is now expected to be delivered in the second half of 2015,' he added.

'However, the gap in submarine capacity has been addressed by modernisation with the state-of-the-art weapon and sensor fit on the existing submarines which have significantly enhanced their combatworthiness against any eventuality,' Antony pointed out.

http://sify.com/finance/delay-in-sc...e-levels-antony-news-default-ke0q4bddebj.html

stupid Defense minister , trying to hide the real consequences , even a simple IN naval salior can say that it will affect the force level . just shows how much Defense Minister knows about equipment in forces , who knows some other day Defense Minister will say , the 3year delay in MMRCA aircraft wont affect IAF aircraft strength . It is about time that this kind of attitude must change , in this matter George Fernandus was better Defense Minister

 

[neo29]

The indian navy has inducted quiet numebr of anti sub corvettes and will be getting p8 Poseidon in 2 years time. this should giving some leverage towards depletion of a sub fleet.

 

[plugwater]

Additional Rs 4764 crore for submarine project

New Delhi: With the delivery of the Scorpene submarines getting delayed, the government has sanctioned an additional amount of Rs 4,764 crore for the project, the Rajya Sabha was informed Wednesday.

"The last (of the six) submarine will be delivered in the second half of 2018. Government has recently sanctioned an additional amount of Rs 4764 crore for the project," Defence Minister A K Antony said in reply to a written query.

India had signed a Rs 18,798 crore deal with France in 2004 for six diesel electric submarines to be constructed at an Indian shipyard and the first submarine is expected to be completed by the Mazagon Dockyards Limited in Mumbai by 2012.

The minister said the delay in delivery of the submarines was due to initial teething problems, absorption of technology and augmentation of the MDL infrastructure and procurement of MDL-procured materials.

Antony said the defence shipyard has put in place various plans to obviate any further delay.

On another query on the artillery ammunition, the Defence minister said the Krasnopol ammunition was procured from Russia in two batches in 1999 and 2002.

"The 1999 ammunition is serviceable and fit for firing during training and operations after repairs by the Original Equipment Manufacturer. The 2002 ammunition is under quality claim repairs by the OEM," he said.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=13265

 

[youngindian]

Scorpene delivery delay may affect force levels: Antony


http://idrw.org/?p=411

 

[Rage]

We're being fvcked upwards, downwards, backward and sideways by this nutjob of a defence minister, who thinks India's about the size of Kerala and a karella will do the job. Already, we're about halfway through our underwater naval arm, given all the retrofits and operational preparedness. And by 2015, we're going to be down to about half that effective strength, not including the Arihant and other vessels under the Project.

Maybe we can steal some of those LTTE submarines.

 

[StealthSniper]

We're being fvcked upwards, downwards, backward and sideways by this nutjob of a defence minister, who thinks India's about the size of Kerala and a karella will do the job. Already, we're about halfway through our underwater naval arm, given all the retrofits and operational preparedness. And by 2015, we're going to be down to about half that effective strength, not including the Arihant and other vessels under the Project.

Maybe we can steal some of those LTTE submarines.

Yes, we are very behind in procurement for our naval arm and it's only going to get worse. Our naval acquisitions aren't good enough for a country half the size of India, and I don't understand when we have the money why things can't be done at a faster pace. I am so ashamed at our politicians and they will be the downfall of India.

 

[neo29]

Finally this guy accepts the fact, contradicting his own statements few days back ..... Unfortunately he is our defence minister


Scorpene delivery delay may affect force levels: Antony

The delay in delivery of Scorpene submarines is likely to have an impact on the envisaged under-water force levels of the Indian Navy, Government told the Lok Sabha on Monday. The gaps in the submarine capacity were being addressed by modernising and upgrading the weapon and sensor systems on the

existing fleet, Defence Minister AK Antony said in a written reply.

These steps have significantly increased the combat worthiness, he said.

In 2004, India had signed a contract with France for supply of six Scorpene submarines, which were to be built in Mumbai's Mazagon Dockyards.

The delivery of submarines has been adversely affected due to initial teething problems, absorption of technology, augmentation of MDL infrastructure and delay in procurement of material by MDL.

Due to the delays, the Navy is relying on its fleet of Russian-origin Kilo class submarines, which are being upgraded for capability enhancement and life extension.

Answering another query on the Coast Guard, he said the force has 24 aircraft and 21 helicopters located at various points across the country.

The Coast Guard fleet includes the Dornier surveillance aircraft and the advanced light helicopters.


http://idrw.org/?p=411

 

[arps]

Finally this guy accepts the fact, contradicting his own statements few days back ..... Unfortunately he is our defence minister


Scorpene delivery delay may affect force levels: Antony

The delay in delivery of Scorpene submarines is likely to have an impact on the envisaged under-water force levels of the Indian Navy, Government told the Lok Sabha on Monday. The gaps in the submarine capacity were being addressed by modernising and upgrading the weapon and sensor systems on the

existing fleet, Defence Minister AK Antony said in a written reply.

These steps have significantly increased the combat worthiness, he said.

In 2004, India had signed a contract with France for supply of six Scorpene submarines, which were to be built in Mumbai's Mazagon Dockyards.

The delivery of submarines has been adversely affected due to initial teething problems, absorption of technology, augmentation of MDL infrastructure and delay in procurement of material by MDL.

Due to the delays, the Navy is relying on its fleet of Russian-origin Kilo class submarines, which are being upgraded for capability enhancement and life extension.

Answering another query on the Coast Guard, he said the force has 24 aircraft and 21 helicopters located at various points across the country.

The Coast Guard fleet includes the Dornier surveillance aircraft and the advanced light helicopters.


http://idrw.org/?p=411

Thats why I dont like France and even though I like Rafale..I dont like IAF should sign MMRCA deal with them..Look at we r going to pay 20% more and having delay of 3 years min..Look at how arrogant they r for mirage upgrade deal..

 

[bengalraider]

This whole thing shows how big a farce the whole hoopla about government accountability and performance appraisal is, in any sane organisation the person responsible for cost increases in any project would have been booted out long ago here he is given pay raises and higher perks!

 

[youngindian]

Scorpene Stumbles Towards The Finish Line .


Scorpene Stumbles Towards The Finish Line

 

[RAM]

Bernard Buisson named DCNS India head


New Delhi, Sep 22 (IANS) Bernard Buisson has been named the new India head of French defence major DCNS that is assisting state-owned Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL) in constructing six state-of-the-art Scorpene submarines for the Indian Navy.'Sound foundations have been built and DCNS India is to expand its presence as a true local partner. I believe India and France have parallel visions in defence and energy engineering. We want to extend and enhance the very good partnerships,' a company statement Wednesday quoted Buisson as saying.DCNS India's 'main missions are to support the naval shipyards and industries, to develop local services with Indian talent and to extend sourcing opportunities for both local and international needs', the statement said.



DCNS has an 'already settled presence in India through the creation of DCNS India and built an industrial relationship with MDL. DCNS is conducting true technologies transfers at an unprecedented level for such complex naval platforms', the statement added.

Expanding on the Scorpene programme, Buisson said: 'One has to appreciate that the production of six state-of-the-art submarines through extensive ToT (transfer of technology) - on a product incorporating such technologically advanced solutions - is a world first.'

According to Buisson, throughout its service life, a submarine 'needs to fulfill strong requirements (safety of the crew, acoustic discretion, reliability, availability) while operating in harsh environments. Thanks to the efforts of all over the past few years, MDL has today absorbed the demanding technologies associated to the hull fabrication'.

'
Today, the outfitting works are on-going. These significant ToT achievements are indeed paving the way for the current and future programmes. MDL and DCNS teams work well together. The ToT is going well,' he added.

Apart from the Scorpene project, DCNS will also provide a comprehensive engineering package and engine/reduction gear cradles to Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers (GRSE) for four Indian-built anti-submarine warfare corvettes.

Buisson has worked for over 35 years in the defence industry. Holder of a diploma in electronic and computer sciences and a masters in administration (Paris 6 University), he has worked at an international level on implementing command and control (C2, C4I) and aerospace solutions.

His first appointment in India was in 2003 where he implemented offsets obligations on various defence programmes. His last position was CEO of EADS Singapore (Airbus and Eurocopter).

DCNS is a world leader in naval defence and an innovative player in energy. The group's success as an advanced technology company with global reach is built on exceptional know-how and unique industrial resources.

DCNS designs, builds and supports submarines and surface combatants as well as associated systems and infrastructure. It also develops solutions in civil nuclear engineering and marine renewable energy. One of the first defence contractors to achieve Group-wide ISO 14001 certification to, the Group employs 12,000 people and generates annual revenues of around 2.4 billion euros.



Bernard Buisson named DCNS India head

 

[Anshu Attri]

Brahmos SL will be integrated with Scorpion Submarines

http://idrw.org/?p=1071

Indo-Russian joint venture BrahMos has prepared a new version of the same name by a supersonic cruise missile, which can be applied to submarines. About this Itar-Tass on passing this exhibition Euronaval 2010 "said managing co-director of the joint venture BrahMos Alexander Maksichev.

"The rocket is ready for use from submarines," – he said, recalling that the carriers of this variant of a cruise missile submarines will be like "Scorpion," the order for which the Indian Navy deployed in France. Maksichev noted that in the near future will be summed up the tender for another batch of submarines. "We have initiated work to a set of airborne weapons and submarines of the party was included missile complex" BrahMos ", – said Maksichev.

Cruise missile BrahMos are in service with Indian Army and Indian Navy surface ships. Batch of missiles in ground-based version and ordered the Air Force of this country. In addition, work on adaptation BrahMos to the Su-30MKI Indian Air Force.

 

[wild goose]

DCNS, Navantia End Scorpene Cooperation

Paris - DCNS and Navantia of Spain have agreed to drop cooperation on the Scorpene conventional diesel-electric attack submarine and go their own ways in undersea warfare, the French naval company company said in a terse statement Nov. 12.

"DCNS and Navantia have put an end to their disagreement concerning their submarine collaboration," DCNS said in a statement. "As a result, the arbitration procedure between them will be terminated."

DCNS will take over sole rights to build and sell the Scorpene, while Navantia will work on its S80 submarine.

"Scorpene submarines will from now on be built and marketed by DCNS. Similarly, S80 submarines will be built and marketed by Navantia," DCNS said. "Neither party will make any further comments."

Under a partnership agreement, DCNS and Navantia shared development and construction of the Scorpene submarine. The two former partners built large subsections in their respective yards in Cherbourg, northern France, and Cartegna, Spain, which were then assembled and delivered to export customers.

But relations between DCNS and Navantia deteriorated after the Spanish company launched its program to build the S80 submarine, which is equipped with a combat management system from Lockheed Martin. The larger S80 is based on an all-new design, which includes air independent propulsion and a land-attack cruise missile.

France has sold Scorpene boats to Brazil, Chile, India and Malaysia.


http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=5036716&c=EUR&s=SEA

 

[Patriot]

After delays, Scorpene submarine now on track: Navy chief

New Delhi: Admitting there was a downward trend in its submarine programme, Indian Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma on Thursday said the gap would be covered when the nation gets six highly advanced French Scorpene vessels being built at a Mumbai shipyard.

'There was a downward trend because of the gap that took place. For 17 years, we didn't commission any indigenous submarine. That is why this gap took place,' Verma told reporters ahead of Navy Day to be celebrated Saturday.

But he said the loopholes would be plugged when the Mazgaon Dock Ltd in Mumbai completes the ongoing Project-75 for six French Scorpene submarines that has already suffered almost a three-year delay.

'I think the Scorpene programme is on track. Yes there was some delay at some point of time. Now we are working to get Project-75, which will help us cover the gap,' he said.

The Indian Navy is facing a grave shortage of submarines. In another five-six years, more than half of its present fleet of 15 ageing diesel-electric submarines - 10 Russian Kilo-class, four German HDW and one Foxtrot - will become obsolete.

According to Project-75, the vessels were to roll out one per year from 2012 onwards. But that won't happen and the navy now hopes that first submarine will sail in 2015.

Navy worried at unchecked entry of B'desh vessels to WB

Even the project cost escalated beyond the total Rs.20,000 crore as was initially agreed between the Indian defence ministry and the French company DCNS, which is fabricating the submarines.

In any naval war, submarines are believed to game-changers. And if armed with nuclear-tipped missiles, the vessel can be the most effective deterrent in present times.

The US and Russia plan to retain over 60 percent of their nuclear weapons in the shape of submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM) fitted on nuclear-powered submarines.

Though India does not have nuclear submarines or SLBM capabilities at present, it hopes to move forward by inducting the Akula-II class attack submarine K-152 Nerpa on a 10-year lease from Russia.

The 8,140-tonne submarine was to be delivered to the Indian Navy by December. But that is unlikely to happen now as the hand-over of the submarine got delayed and it would come only in 2011.






http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=13893