IN Scorpene Submarines - News & Discussions

Rahul Singh

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Unfortunately Indian projects near the end are numerous.
Tejas is near the end until.... 8/10 years?
Kaveri ....
Arjun....
HTT40....

Indian people. You are peacefull. :yo:
But those are just facts.

I'm sorry. I have absolutely nothing against India and
You forgot to mention Project ATV (INS Arihant), Vikrant-class Carrier (Project 71), Vishakhapatnam-class Destroyers(Project 15B), Kamorta-class corvettes (Project 28), Varunshashtra HWT etc.

You know the list is very long and comes with a difference. Which is these are Naval projects, unlike those you mentioned; which are not.

Interestingly all of them are about to be inducted. Do check for their status.

Now add to mentioned fact another; DRDO AIP is a joint project with Navy. I leave this just to that

About P75I or another batch of Scorpene.... have you seen that no more people or newspaper talk about the famous leaks.
Remember Rafale was supposed to be eliminated in a early stage of MMRCA. To emerge as L1 some years after. And now ordered. :cool3:
Rafale deal was closed like one would close Pandora box.

France was awarded just enough to compensate for its time. IAF bought bare minimum to make some use of this purchase and not just see as a burden on it logistic.

As far as P-75I is concerned. Well, you need to be aware of a fact that both P-75 and P-75I are just first and the second phase of Indian Navy's 30-year year submarine plan which has three phases in total. And last but most important phase of it calls for construction of 12 SSK based on indigenous design. This design is expected to carry best features both P-75 and P-75I and one prerequisite before this indigenous design goes into production is two fully functional submarine building lines.

Now with the production of first Kalvari class submarine out from line, the first phase is complete. With second phase which is P-75I requirements like second line and a new design needs to be fuilfilled. A further order or repeat order of more Scorpenes to Mazhgaon docks Ltd. does not fulfil those. So no, highly unlikely there will a repeat order.
 

BON PLAN

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You forgot to mention Project ATV (INS Arihant), Vikrant-class Carrier (Project 71), Vishakhapatnam-class Destroyers(Project 15B), Kamorta-class corvettes (Project 28), Varunshashtra HWT etc.

You know the list is very long and comes with a difference. Which is these are Naval projects, unlike those you mentioned; which are not.

Interestingly all of them are about to be inducted. Do check for their status.

Now add to mentioned fact another; DRDO AIP is a joint project with Navy. I leave this just to that

Rafale deal was closed like one would close Pandora box.

France was awarded just enough to compensate for its time. IAF bought bare minimum to make some use of this purchase and not just see as a burden on it logistic.

As far as P-75I is concerned. Well, you need to be aware of a fact that both P-75 and P-75I are just first and the second phase of Indian Navy's 30-year year submarine plan which has three phases in total. And last but most important phase of it calls for construction of 12 SSK based on indigenous design. This design is expected to carry best features both P-75 and P-75I and one prerequisite before this indigenous design goes into production is two fully functional submarine building lines.

Now with the production of first Kalvari class submarine out from line, the first phase is complete. With second phase which is P-75I requirements like second line and a new design needs to be fuilfilled. A further order or repeat order of more Scorpenes to Mazhgaon docks Ltd. does not fulfil those. So no, highly unlikely there will a repeat order.
Arihant ? in trials.
Vikrant? in trials.
destroyer and corvette : I hope a country of more than a billion people is able to built limited or small surface vessels.

Rafale deal : incredible. You say it's a gift to thanks France for its time ? A gift of 8 billions..... YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS MY FRIEND.

And lesson to me : At least there will be another batch of rafale. If not india had taken the 100% french model, and it's not. Let's spend some time.....
 

Bahamut

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AnantS

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Arihant ? in trials.
Vikrant? in trials.
destroyer and corvette : I hope a country of more than a billion people is able to built limited or small surface vessels.

Rafale deal : incredible. You say it's a gift to thanks France for its time ? A gift of 8 billions..... YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS MY FRIEND.

And lesson to me : At least there will be another batch of rafale. If not india had taken the 100% french model, and it's not. Let's spend some time.....
I am sorry but I suppose even your products undergo trials before induction isn't it? So what do you mean in trials? Also Arihant supposedly has been quitely inducted into navy. Rest I believe if IAF is satisfied with Rafale then the total no of Rafale may go up to approx 80
 

Rahul Singh

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Arihant ? in trials.
Vikrant? in trials

destroyer and corvette : I hope a country of more than a billion people is able to built limited or small surface vessels.
.
Really? INS Arihant as per some unofficial sources has already entered service. Since this submarine is not under direct control of Navy but SFC Navy has refused to comment.

Vikrant is not under trials yet. But by 2018 it will enter. And there aren't any doubts about its success. However carrier itself is not a big achievement. But the steel that has gone into making it is; AB/A grade steel developed in house and Vikrant is first warship to be completely constructed using indigenously produced steel. Developed in collaboration with DRDO.

Seems DRDO succeedes every time it works for Navy. The AIP will also be just wait some time.

Destroyers of this size and weight plus 7000 tons are not simple at all. And success is no smaller when compared with the fact that IAF and IA are struggling to a fighter and a assault rifle respectively. That was the whole point.

Rafale deal : incredible. You say it's a gift to thanks France for its time ? A gift of 8 billions..... YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS MY FRIEND.
Not a gift my friend but a calculated misinvestment to save a strategic relationship. Which in case of outright cancellation would have been damaged. Anyway I call it calculated because we did good bargain. Kaveri development as offset was a good. I only hope French don't end up cheating.
And lesson to me : At least there will be another batch of rafale. If not india had taken the 100% french model, and it's not. Let's spend some time.....
You mean to say we are foolish enough to go through torturous bargaining one more time for adding couple of more squadrons of Rafale and not buy entire batch in one sitting? You are really not getting the mood prevailing here.
 
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SajeevJino

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French DCNS proposes to built three more Kalvari-class submarines

Mazagon Docks Limited (MDL) would build the three Scorpenes like the six others, that will be delivered at gaps of nine months expected to be completed by 2020.

These additional submarines will be integrated with the DRDO developed AIP system.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TejasMrca/photos/?ref=page_internal
stop quoting these Facebook bullshit ..provide a clear news source

Mods please look at these kinda a :bs: Post
 

BON PLAN

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Destroyers of this size and weight plus 7000 tons are not simple at all. And success is no smaller when compared with the fact that IAF and IA are struggling to a fighter and a assault rifle respectively. That was the whole point.
Sorry Bro, but it's easyer to built a surface vessel than a sub. In a sub quite each mistake is a catastrophic failure, not on a surface vessel.
 

BON PLAN

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You mean to say we are foolish enough to go through torturous bargaining one more time for adding couple of more squadrons of Rafale and not buy entire batch in one sitting? You are really not getting the mood prevailing here.
The price is already best known.
The fixed costs for bases accomodation, new weapons and equipments integration are already in the pipe and be paid with the first 36 Rafale.

The rest is : each plane cost nearly 100 euros millions. just add support and some more weapons, as for every plane.
 

BON PLAN

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I am sorry but I suppose even your products undergo trials before induction isn't it? So what do you mean in trials? Also Arihant supposedly has been quitely inducted into navy. Rest I believe if IAF is satisfied with Rafale then the total no of Rafale may go up to approx 80
Read all the posts before. If you only take my answer you don't understand all the subject.
 

IndianHawk

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Sorry Bro, but it's easyer to built a surface vessel than a sub. In a sub quite each mistake is a catastrophic failure, not on a surface vessel.
We have built a sub with nuclear reactor.
Far more probability of catastrophe won't you agree??
Although we did it with Russian involvement still it's 70% indigenous.

We can build a Submarine a secure and sophisticated one . The only genuine concern is that of time lines .
Our program management sucks.
 

WolfPack86

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French help Delhi boost ‘Made in India’ Submarine fleet

French naval group DCNS plans to provide the Indian Navy with three more diesel-electric Scorpene class submarines that would be built entirely in Mumbai.

India’s major shipyard Mazagon Docks Limited (MDL) would build the three Scorpenes like the six others that had been completed, according to sources cited by French newspaper La Tribune.

Mazagon, which builds warships and submarines for the Indian Navy, built the six submarines under a technology transfer contract signed with DCNS in 2005.

From the “Make in India” campaign push dear to Prime Minister Narendra Modi, this order would allow Mazagon to maintain the know-how and skills acquired through the manufacture of the Scorpene submarines.

To date, all six hulls have been manufactured by MDL, but there are still integration works.

For example, DCNS taught the Indians to manufacture the shells of Scorpene by welding elastic steel of several centimeters thick.

“DCNS has no job responsibility since no French sailor will be on board, but it guarantees the performance of the first two Scorpene submarines, including speed, dive depth or noise level,” said director general of DCNS India, Bernard Buisson, in a Figaro report in September.

“France also guarantees that the submarines were built in
line with the production process and the safety standards of
diving.”

The US$3.5 billion purchase agreement for the six Scorpene had been signed in 2005. The three additional submarines would be equipped with a new anaerobic propulsion system currently being developed by India’s Defence Research and Development Organization.

The latest French proposal is timely, following the first submarine – the Kalvari – built by Mazagon with help from DCNS. The Kalvari was based on the Scorpene design and was part of India’s drive to replace its old naval fleet with modern vessels.

DCNS has also reassured India reassured over leak case Finally, India is worried at first about the stealth of Its future submarine fleet questioned, has reassured itself and has been Reassured by DCNS as a result of the false data leak case On the Scorpene submarines.

India wants to purchase more than 24 submarines.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/French-help-Delhi-boost-‘Made-in-India’-Submarine-fleet-69305
 

Prashant12

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stop quoting these Facebook bullshit ..provide a clear news source

Mods please look at these kinda a :bs: Post
DCNS proposes three additional Scorpene submarines to India



Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikkar said India should review its plan to acquire 24 submarines. New Delhi should buy more (Credits: DCNS).
The Indian partner of DCNS, Mazagon Docks Limited, sent an unsolicited proposal to New Delhi to sell three additional Scorpene submarines.

According to corroborating sources, the Indian partner of the naval group DCNS, Mazagon Docks Limited (MDL), sent about three weeks ago an unsolicited proposal in New Delhi for the sale of three additional Scorpene submarines. Like the first six Scorpene, these three submarines would also be manufactured by the MDL public yard on the Mumbai site. From the "Make in India" dear to the Indian Prime Minister, Narendra Modi.

This order would enable the Indian shipyard to maintain the know-how and skills it acquired through the manufacture of the first Scorpenes as part of a transfer of technology between DCNS and MDL provided for in the contract signed in 2005. DCNS For example, taught the Indians how to make the shells of Scorpene by welding elastic steel several centimeters thick. To date, the six hulls have all been manufactured by MDL but there are still integration works. Hence the relative urgency to relaunch production of new hulls.

"DCNS has no job responsibility since no French sailor will be on board but it guarantees the performance of the first two Scorpene including speed, depth of diving or noise level. France also guarantees that the submarines were built respecting the production process and the standards of safety of diving ", explained in September to the Figaro the director general of DCNS India, Bernard Buisson.

Three identical submarines
MDL and DCNS to provide the Indian Navy, far behind the Chinese navy in the field, three submarines identical to the first six in the context of a "repeat order", a clause equivalent to options under the Program P75. The purchase contract for six Scorpene was signed in 2005 ($ 3.5 billion). These three additional submarines would be equipped with a new anaerobic propulsion system (AIP) developed by India (DRDO).

The French proposal comes at the right time, the first test campaign at sea of the first submarine manufactured, the Kalvari. A first that went well and left a very good impression to the Indian submariners, according to our information. But the Kalvari has not yet made a deep-water dive (that of the P-point, the maximum dive), one of the key stages of the test campaign. The Kalvari, which was to be delivered at the end of 2016 to the Indian Navy, will finally be released at the beginning of the second quarter, according to the latest forecasts. It was originally scheduled to be delivered in December 2012 upon signing the contract. Moreover, the second submarine will be launched at the end of 2016 and began in the wake its test campaign.

http://translate.google.com/transla...712.html#xtor=EPR-2-[l-actu-du-jour]-20161124
 

BON PLAN

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3 extra sub were a part of original 6 sub deal not P 75I
This Forum is about Scorpene, not P75I specially.
The original deal is for 6 unit. No follow order inside.
These 3 are part of a unsollicited offer.
 

BON PLAN

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We have built a sub with nuclear reactor.
Far more probability of catastrophe won't you agree??
Although we did it with Russian involvement still it's 70% indigenous.

We can build a Submarine a secure and sophisticated one . The only genuine concern is that of time lines .
Our program management sucks.
You're right .
 

Rahul Singh

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Sorry Bro, but it's easyer to built a surface vessel than a sub. In a sub quite each mistake is a catastrophic failure, not on a surface vessel.
And we have something called INS Arihant; designed jointly by DRDO and Navy and build jointly by HSL and L&T.

Still, i did not get your point.
 

Rahul Singh

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The price is already best known.
The fixed costs for bases accomodation, new weapons and equipments integration are already in the pipe and be paid with the first 36 Rafale.

The rest is : each plane cost nearly 100 euros millions. just add support and some more weapons, as for every plane.
Actually, these were known even before we projected a requirement to purchase those 36 Rafales. Don't forget we were sitting with Dassault for 4 years across a table doing just that. Yet it took us torturous one and half year to seal the deal. You really think it's that easy.

Honestly speaking since we have bought 36 Rafales i would logically want more and not another type be it F/A-18, F-16 or Gripen NG. But with the condition that Dassault does significant ToT and join hands with a local company to set up a line for producing Rafale. But last time i checked Dassult was reluctant to share the risk. And this lead to the closure of 126 MMRCA deal and ordering of just 36 Rafales for getting rid of this nuisance. I hope you are getting this time.
 

BON PLAN

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Actually, these were known even before we projected a requirement to purchase those 36 Rafales. Don't forget we were sitting with Dassault for 4 years across a table doing just that. Yet it took us torturous one and half year to seal the deal. You really think it's that easy.

Honestly speaking since we have bought 36 Rafales i would logically want more and not another type be it F/A-18, F-16 or Gripen NG. But with the condition that Dassault does significant ToT and join hands with a local company to set up a line for producing Rafale. But last time i checked Dassult was reluctant to share the risk. And this lead to the closure of 126 MMRCA deal and ordering of just 36 Rafales for getting rid of this nuisance. I hope you are getting this time.
The HAL local company was not choiced by Dassault. It was because HAL is not serious enough (to be polite) and the pressure on Dassault to assume the warranty of products not made by a Partner in which it trust that closed the MMRCA.
Don't imagine Dassault will give you all its know how just for 36 planes ! for 300 OK, but not 36. The Dassault skill is the result of 70 years of improvements. It costs far more than 36 Rafale.
 

republic_roi97

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The HAL local company was not choiced by Dassault. It was because HAL is not serious enough (to be polite) and the pressure on Dassault to assume the warranty of products not made by a Partner in which it trust that closed the MMRCA.
Don't imagine Dassault will give you all its know how just for 36 planes ! for 300 OK, but not 36. The Dassault skill is the result of 70 years of improvements. It costs far more than 36 Rafale.
The next 90 odd rafales, if ordered, will be mostly produced in house by HAL just like they did with Sukhoi, no argument can be made with that, and Dassault wouldn't have any problem with that, because, by that time, they'd already have started a joint venture in India, this would be great more so for France, as the production cost would be less and they would earn much more profit.
Don't forget that they already are helping GTRE realize an uprated kaveri.
 

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