IN Scorpene Submarines - News & Discussions

[bose]

It would take 5 years to set it up and another 5 years to decide to do it. The fleet doesn't have that long. The leaked specs were pre-2005. They are not even in use in the current design.

The decision are fast with new government ... the govt is analyzing the damage... it is critical then the story ends...

 

[bose]

AMUR like LADA is a failure.
U214? it would take 10 years to conclude a deal. No Way.

Amur will win most likely ... we can go for parallel build in both Russia and India for quick delivery...

I'm sure another Scorpene will follow. Just a question of months.

trust deficit ... let wait for the report ...

 

[Bahamut]

AMUR like LADA is a failure.

It did achive its objective but the Russian navy is more interested in Project Kalina

 

[Bahamut]

I'm sure another Scorpene will follow. Just a question of months.

After the leaks there is no change for Scorpene that leaves Amur as the for runner

 

[Armand2REP]

Amur will win most likely ... we can go for parallel build in both Russia and India for quick delivery...

They would have to have a deployable submarine first.

 

[bose]

They would have to have a deployable submarine first.

definitely there will be if they participate ...

 

[BON PLAN]

Submarine: DCNS passes a key stage in Australia
http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises...669.html#xtor=EPR-2-[l-actu-du-jour]-20160930

The tricolor shipyard signed its first contract in Australia. This is the design contract for future submarines of the Australian Navy.
Five months after being selected by Australia to produce 12 submarines, DCNS confirmed Thursday it had signed a "contract first operational". It covers the design of future Australian submarines in the program "Sea 1000". An announcement by the Minister of Defence, Marise Payne, and the Industry Minister of Defence, Christopher Pyne, who announced they had selected Lockheed Martin as combat system supplier.

"By forming a partnership with a company based in Australia and having close ties with the US, we make sure to get the best of Australian and American technology, while ensuring that our sensitive technology is protected," said in a statement the Australian Defence Ministers Marise Payne and Industry of Defense, Christopher Pyne,

A significant step forward The contract, which binds DCNS and the Australian government really runs the program, the amount totals to 34 billion euros. "This is a significant step forward, said the CEO of DCNS, Hervé Guillou, who is quoted in the press. This contract will enable DCNS to start the initial phase of future Australian submarine." This signature also demonstrates that the case of the leaked documents about the Scorpene submarines built by DCNS had no significant impact on the conduct of the Australian submarine program. The agreement "represents a first key step in the implementation of choice by Australia of a long-term partnership with France in the strategic area of submarine", welcomed the Minister of Defence, Jean -Yves Le Drian, in a statement Thursday night.

The contract signed with DCNS in particular address the design of future submarines. It aims to define the configuration and coordination with the combat system supplier and Australian partners in the program. In this context, DCNS will work with Lockheed Martin, which was selected by Raytheon Canberra preferably, to be the combat system supplier for future submarines, including sonar and torpedoes.

Canberra was chosen DCNS last April to begin negotiations for the purchase of submarines at the expense of Thyssenkrupp German and Japanese duo of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries. The commissioning of the new submarine is expected in 2027. In addition to manufacturing submarines, the contract also includes an overall budget of 50 years including in particular the infrastructure, maintenance and crew training.

 

[tharun]

What is the maximum battery storage for a submarine?

 

[BON PLAN]

What is the maximum battery storage for a submarine?

very depending of the size of the sub (the bigger the better storage), and the speed of the sub.

On battery only : maybe 2 or 3 weeks at 3 or 4 knots. It's a magnitude idea.

It's why new classical subs (ie non nuclear) are often equipped with AIP.

 

[BON PLAN]

No more news in India about theses leaks?

Not more in France.... I've seen nothing new until weeks. Specially about the former french navy guy who seemed to have stole these documents.

 

[sorcerer]

India to Begin Trials of Homegrown AIP Equipment in December


Delays had forced the Indian Navy to abandon its plan to deploy AIP in Scorpene submarines.
New Delhi — India’s Defense and Research Development organization (DRDO) is preparing for trials of its long delayed Air Independent Propulsion (AIP).

Sources say that AIP trials are expected to begin in December this year, and if they proceed on schedule, it is likely to be ready for installation by 2020. India had planned to equip its two Kalveri-class submarine with homegrown AIP.

On October 18, Sputnik had reported that due to delays in the development of AIP by DRDO, the Indian Navy had decided to do away with its plan to equip homegrown AIP into the last two Scorpene-class submarines, also known as Kalveri-class submarines.

The first Kalveri-class submarine is expected to be inducted by January 2017, with a delay of more than four years. India has planned to induct the last two submarines of this class in 2020 and 2022. French firm DCNS won a contract to build six Kalveri-class submarines at a cost of USD 3.5 billion. DCNS had also proposed to set up a 100% Indian subsidiary to manufacture AIP but it failed to impress Indian authorities because of similar AIP technologies being developed by DRDO.


AIP is vital equipment for modern submarines that enhance their survivability under water. It uses limited amounts of stored liquid gas which ultimately is used to charge the battery of the submarines. Due to this, submarines can remain under water for longer periods of time. As development of homegrown AIP is being delayed, it might attract foreign manufacturers from Russia, Germany and Sweden to propose construction of AIP under technology transfer in India, so that the probability of winning a contract for an additional six submarines under the Indian Navy project 75i is increased.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201610271046799890-india-scorpene-submarine-aip/

 

[BON PLAN]

India to Begin Trials of Homegrown AIP Equipment in December


Delays had forced the Indian Navy to abandon its plan to deploy AIP in Scorpene submarines.
New Delhi — India’s Defense and Research Development organization (DRDO) is preparing for trials of its long delayed Air Independent Propulsion (AIP).

Sources say that AIP trials are expected to begin in December this year, and if they proceed on schedule, it is likely to be ready for installation by 2020. India had planned to equip its two Kalveri-class submarine with homegrown AIP.

On October 18, Sputnik had reported that due to delays in the development of AIP by DRDO, the Indian Navy had decided to do away with its plan to equip homegrown AIP into the last two Scorpene-class submarines, also known as Kalveri-class submarines.

The first Kalveri-class submarine is expected to be inducted by January 2017, with a delay of more than four years. India has planned to induct the last two submarines of this class in 2020 and 2022. French firm DCNS won a contract to build six Kalveri-class submarines at a cost of USD 3.5 billion. DCNS had also proposed to set up a 100% Indian subsidiary to manufacture AIP but it failed to impress Indian authorities because of similar AIP technologies being developed by DRDO.


AIP is vital equipment for modern submarines that enhance their survivability under water. It uses limited amounts of stored liquid gas which ultimately is used to charge the battery of the submarines. Due to this, submarines can remain under water for longer periods of time. As development of homegrown AIP is being delayed, it might attract foreign manufacturers from Russia, Germany and Sweden to propose construction of AIP under technology transfer in India, so that the probability of winning a contract for an additional six submarines under the Indian Navy project 75i is increased.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201610271046799890-india-scorpene-submarine-aip/

it is said in France that the Indian AIP is far from beeing ready. It seems that this news is only made for bargaining a west equipment

 

[IndianHawk]

it is said in France that the Indian AIP is far from beeing ready. It seems that this news is only made for bargaining a west equipment

If the French already know that , how would it help Indians in bargaining.(German Russian will know that too).
The argument is devoid of logic

 

[BON PLAN]

If the French already know that , how would it help Indians in bargaining.(German Russian will know that too).
The argument is devoid of logic

It's easy :
Indian say "I have the know how to developp my own AIP".
stranger say "(for himself : "bull shit !" ) hummmm.... are you sure ?"
Indian say "Yes. but you can make me an offer... we have so many subs to equip...."
Stranger say "oups.... ok, we will see..."

You remove part of the pressure by doing so. And this is usefull with russian, german and... french !

 

[republic_roi97]

It's easy :
Indian say "I have the know how to developp my own AIP".
stranger say "(for himself : "bull shit !" ) hummmm.... are you sure ?"
Indian say "Yes. but you can make me an offer... we have so many subs to equip...."
Stranger say "oups.... ok, we will see..."

You remove part of the pressure by doing so. And this is usefull with russian, german and... french !

LOL! Hell of a logic, it is not going to affect the french or west in any way if we equip 2 of 6 of our subs with homegrown AIP, you gotta start somewhere, don't you think ? There are plenty of more deals that are gonna be signed with the west, could be with french. So, I don't think that its gonna be a problem, as for DRDO AIP test in december, that does not mean that we are gonna use it in Scorpean sub, it might be used in the next P75-I project.

 

[BON PLAN]

LOL! Hell of a logic, it is not going to affect the french or west in any way if we equip 2 of 6 of our subs with homegrown AIP, you gotta start somewhere, don't you think ? There are plenty of more deals that are gonna be signed with the west, could be with french. So, I don't think that its gonna be a problem, as for DRDO AIP test in december, that does not mean that we are gonna use it in Scorpean sub, it might be used in the next P75-I project.

sure.
It's not the problem.
What I was saying is that it seems that Indian AIP is not ready at all, but all is made to make understand the contrary so as to be more in strengh in the bargaining with foreign suppliers.

And if yours is ready, use it ! on Scorpene (difficult I think, for technical, waranty clause and intelectual property reasons) or a new sub.

 

[IndianHawk]

sure.
It's not the problem.
What I was saying is that it seems that Indian AIP is not ready at all, but all is made to make understand the contrary so as to be more in strengh in the bargaining with foreign suppliers.

And if yours is ready, use it ! on Scorpene (difficult I think, for technical, waranty clause and intelectual property reasons) or a new sub.

They are going for user trials . If it's ready or not will become quite visible during trial.

And there is domestic angle to it as it is now in public domain failure will reflect upon DRDO .
DRDO won't go ahead with publicly known trial for an half-baked product just to gain some illusory bargaining chips

 

[Pash]

DRDO is already in muddy water and I hope and they are not doing same with AIP. They should learn from ISRO.
@BON PLAN, I think DRDO can bluff but not at this scale, as IndiamHawk has said soon trails will be conducted and we will have clear picture

 

[Rahul Singh]

it is said in France that the Indian AIP is far from beeing ready. It seems that this news is only made for bargaining a west equipment

And we are used to such nervous opinions wrapped in a veil of fact being passed on us every time we get close to develop any new piece of technology aimed at making us independent in a particular area. Examples are many.

Fact of the matter is DRDO developed AIP may or may not find its place in Scorpene but next line of SSK under P-75I will not be french. As originally envisaged and now most likely it will a Russian design.

 

[BON PLAN]

And we are used to such nervous opinions wrapped in a veil of fact being passed on us every time we get close to develop any new piece of technology aimed at making us independent in a particular area. Examples are many.

Fact of the matter is DRDO developed AIP may or may not find its place in Scorpene but next line of SSK under P-75I will not be french. As originally envisaged and now most likely it will a Russian design.

Unfortunately Indian projects near the end are numerous.
Tejas is near the end until.... 8/10 years?
Kaveri ....
Arjun....
HTT40....

I'm sorry. I have absolutely nothing against India and Indian people. You are peacefull.
But those are just facts.

About P75I or another batch of Scorpene.... have you seen that no more people or newspaper talk about the famous leaks.
Remember Rafale was supposed to be eliminated in a early stage of MMRCA. To emerge as L1 some years after. And now ordered.