In 1987 when Army almost broke Pakistan into four and govt said 'NO'

[lcafanboy]

In 1987 when Army almost broke Pakistan into four and govt said 'NO'
Wednesday, December 13, 2017 By: One India Source Link: CLICK HERE


Over the past few days there have been claims and counter claims regarding surgical strikes on terror camps being nurtured and run by Pakistan. It had even become a poll issue in Gujarat with Prime Minister Narendra Modi saying unlike his predecessor he had shown guts and ordered surgical strikes across the Line of Control.

He referred to the 26/11 attack that took place during the UPA rule and said that the government of the day had refused to act against Pakistan despite the Army and Air Force stating that they were ready.

It has often been debated why the governments have not done enough to act against Pakistan despite that nation continuing to sponsor terror against India.


Operation brasstacks:

In this context we must take into consideration two incidents of the past when the Army said it was ready and the government refused to act.

It was the year 1987 and General Krishnaswamy Sundarji had devised Operation Brasstacks.

Air Marshal (retd) B K Pandey tells OneIndia that the General had made it appear as though he was conducting an exercise in the plains. He had two opposing forces

He made it appear as though he was conducting an exercise in the plains.

He had two opposing forces and they were moving south-north. At one stage he had weakened Amritsar to lure Pakistan into attacking Amrtisar and declaring Khalistan. The whole plan was to divide Pakistan into four states. However the Russians and Americans got wind of this and informed the then Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi about this. He in turn told the General to cool off, Air Marshal Pandey also says.


After 26/11:

Post 26/11 there was a lot of pressure on India to act against Pakistan. While it was said in various quarters that India would attack Pakistan, that was however not the case.

Top sources say that the Army and the Air Force was asked about the preparedness. Both said that they were prepared to carry out a strike in Pakistan. The officer in the know of the events at that time said, nobody changed their mind. In fact, the government never made up its mind to go to war.

I know the sentiment of the entire country was that of anger and disgust. The Indian Air Force was ready to strike at Pakistan. We had our contingency ready and were well prepared. However, ultimately it depends on what the government wants, he also noted. The government was not in favour of an air strike across the border as it felt that it would escalate into a full fledged war, he further added.

B K Pandey explains that there is a difference between striking across the Line of Control and the International Border. Striking across the LoC is fine as we are hitting at a territory that we are claiming as ours. However a strike across the IB tends to escalate the situation into a full blown war. Post 26/11 the government could have thought about a surgical strike at least Air Marshal Pandey further adds.
http://www.defencenews.in/article/I...ke-Pakistan-into-four-and-govt-said-NO-515056

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[dhananjay1]

I don't think Murika would have allowed something like that in 1987. They were invested too much in Pakistan at the time.

 

[lcafanboy]

I don't think Murika would have allowed something like that in 1987. They were invested too much in Pakistan at the time.

America didn't want India to break Porkistan and create Bangladesh in 1971 too..........

Did that stopped India? And was India successful in it or not?

Gen. Sundarji was a different breed all together, it was Rajiv Khandhi & KHANGRESS which stopped operation Brasstacks. PORKIES and Porki Army was Shiiting in their PANTS seeing Indian Army, Airforce & Navy in full might at their doorsteps.

Had Rajiv Khandi allowed gen. Sundarji to proceed we wouldn't have been facing trouble and world would have been much safer place to live in with the absence of terrorist-tan.

 

[VIP]

I don't think Murika would have allowed something like that in 1987. They were invested too much in Pakistan at the time.

Before murika had any chance, we would have detached sindh, Balochistan from Pakistan. But, bada raga got the wind and didn't allow it.

 

[Villager]

We should have had more will to act than think about US or others. We are such a let down for our own army's morale.

 

[hit&run]

I see no depth in this argument.

I request posters to explain military posturing, attacking formations, supply lines, ammunition dumps, engineering and medical corps preparedness that suggests the attack on Pakistan was imminent.

This is sensationalist twist to a brilliant military exercise that scared the shit out of Pakistan including Americans.

We never had as calibered General as General Krishnaswamy Sundarji. No wonder his actions became legends.

 

[Mikesingh]

I request posters to explain military posturing, attacking formations, supply lines, ammunition dumps, engineering and medical corps preparedness that suggests the attack on Pakistan was imminent.

Ex Brasstacks was conducted in the deserts of Rajasthan, near the Pakistani border, which was an ideal location from which to launch a deep thrust offensive into the Pakistani state of Sindh that could cut Pakistan in half and probably more.

The force comprised of nine infantry, three mechanised, three armoured and one air assault divisions (Not an airborne div since we didn't have any then), and three indep armoured brigades under four corps HQ with all the logistics support needed for a real war, concentrated on Pakistan's sensitive border areas. Also planned was an amphibious operation by the Indian Navy with one division, in Korangi area of Karachi.

This Ex was the biggest since World War II outdoing NATO exercises by a long shot. Another feature of the exercise was jointmanship with the air force and navy as part of Brasstacks.

Now the million dollar question is: Was it the prelude to a full scale war? Yes it was! However, external pressures from the US, Russia and other Western nations put paid to what could have been the break-up of Pakistan. However, the price was too high seeing that the Indian economy then wasn't geared to support a full scale war with Pakistan and which would also attract international opprobrium. The Indian government finally chickened out.

Sundarjee was a hawk. Even the Chinese cowered under his gaze when they quickly withdrew from Somdorongchu in 1987 when warned by Sundarjee of dire consequences if they did not vacate encroached territory.

We need more generals like him!!

 

[aditya10r]

Ex Brasstacks was conducted in the deserts of Rajasthan, near the Pakistani border, which was an ideal location from which to launch a deep thrust offensive into the Pakistani state of Sindh that could cut Pakistan in half and probably more.

The force comprised of nine infantry, three mechanised, three armoured and one air assault divisions (Not an airborne div since we didn't have any then), and three indep armoured brigades under four corps HQ with all the logistics support needed for a real war, concentrated on Pakistan's sensitive border areas. Also planned was an amphibious operation by the Indian Navy with one division, in Korangi area of Karachi.

This Ex was the biggest since World War II outdoing NATO exercises by a long shot. Another feature of the exercise was jointmanship with the air force and navy as part of Brasstacks.

Now the million dollar question is: Was it the prelude to a full scale war? Yes it was! However, external pressures from the US, Russia and other Western nations put paid to what could have been the break-up of Pakistan. However, the price was too high seeing that the Indian economy then wasn't geared to support a full scale war with Pakistan and which would also attract international opprobrium. The Indian government finally chickened out.

Sundarjee was a hawk. Even the Chinese cowered under his gaze when they quickly withdrew from Somdorongchu in 1987 when warned by Sundarjee of dire consequences if they did not vacate encroached territory.

We need more generals like him!!

Sir ji,who in your opinion has been the best general in IA history??????

__________________________________________

 

[vayuu1]

In 1987 when Army almost broke Pakistan into four and govt said 'NO'
Wednesday, December 13, 2017 By: One India Source Link: CLICK HERE


Over the past few days there have been claims and counter claims regarding surgical strikes on terror camps being nurtured and run by Pakistan. It had even become a poll issue in Gujarat with Prime Minister Narendra Modi saying unlike his predecessor he had shown guts and ordered surgical strikes across the Line of Control.

He referred to the 26/11 attack that took place during the UPA rule and said that the government of the day had refused to act against Pakistan despite the Army and Air Force stating that they were ready.

It has often been debated why the governments have not done enough to act against Pakistan despite that nation continuing to sponsor terror against India.


Operation brasstacks:

In this context we must take into consideration two incidents of the past when the Army said it was ready and the government refused to act.

It was the year 1987 and General Krishnaswamy Sundarji had devised Operation Brasstacks.

Air Marshal (retd) B K Pandey tells OneIndia that the General had made it appear as though he was conducting an exercise in the plains. He had two opposing forces

He made it appear as though he was conducting an exercise in the plains.

He had two opposing forces and they were moving south-north. At one stage he had weakened Amritsar to lure Pakistan into attacking Amrtisar and declaring Khalistan. The whole plan was to divide Pakistan into four states. However the Russians and Americans got wind of this and informed the then Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi about this. He in turn told the General to cool off, Air Marshal Pandey also says.


After 26/11:

Post 26/11 there was a lot of pressure on India to act against Pakistan. While it was said in various quarters that India would attack Pakistan, that was however not the case.

Top sources say that the Army and the Air Force was asked about the preparedness. Both said that they were prepared to carry out a strike in Pakistan. The officer in the know of the events at that time said, nobody changed their mind. In fact, the government never made up its mind to go to war.

I know the sentiment of the entire country was that of anger and disgust. The Indian Air Force was ready to strike at Pakistan. We had our contingency ready and were well prepared. However, ultimately it depends on what the government wants, he also noted. The government was not in favour of an air strike across the border as it felt that it would escalate into a full fledged war, he further added.

B K Pandey explains that there is a difference between striking across the Line of Control and the International Border. Striking across the LoC is fine as we are hitting at a territory that we are claiming as ours. However a strike across the IB tends to escalate the situation into a full blown war. Post 26/11 the government could have thought about a surgical strike at least Air Marshal Pandey further adds.
http://www.defencenews.in/article/I...ke-Pakistan-into-four-and-govt-said-NO-515056

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Should have done that, probably would have been a one lesser headache, who knows.

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[lcafanboy]

Sir ji,who in your opinion has been the best general in IA history??????

__________________________________________

1 SAM MANEKSHAW

2 K. Sunderji

 

[aditya10r]

1 SAM MANEKSHAW

2 K. Sunderji

K M Cariappa?????

________________________________________

 

[vayuu1]

हांलाकि अभी भी मेरा मानना है कि हमारा पहला और महत्वपूर्ण लक्ष्य चीन होना चाहिए एक समृद्ध एवं सशक्त भारत हेतु चीन का विध्वंस अत्यावश्यक है अाैर ये यथाशीघ्र होना चाहिए |

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[Mikesingh]

Sir ji,who in your opinion has been the best general in IA history??????

__________________________________________

No prizes for guessing who! It was Gen Sundarjee and FM Sam Manekshaw!

 

[IBRIS]

Congress itself is the worst enemy of this Nation. Communal arena mentality runs deep in there conscience.

 

[VIP]

America didn't want India to break Porkistan and create Bangladesh in 1971 too..........

Did that stopped India? And was India successful in it or not?

Gen. Sundarji was a different breed all together, it was Rajiv Khandhi & KHANGRESS which stopped operation Brasstacks. PORKIES and Porki Army was Shiiting in their PANTS seeing Indian Army, Airforce & Navy in full might at their doorsteps.

Had Rajiv Khandi allowed gen. Sundarji to proceed we wouldn't have been facing trouble and world would have been much safer place to live in with the absence of terrorist-tan.

+1

Bada raga didn't know about the intentions of Sundarji. Some jaichands in the army alerted political masters and because of this idiocy, we have been pushed to the long proxy war.

 

[no smoking]

Sundarjee was a hawk. Even the Chinese cowered under his gaze when they quickly withdrew from Somdorongchu in 1987 when warned by Sundarjee of dire consequences if they did not vacate encroached territory.

We need more generals like him!!

Really?

Let's see how did Chinese cowered based on India side story:

1. By the summer of 1984 India had established an observation post on the bank of S-C;
2. In June 1986, Indians found that Chinese was building a post on the other side;
3. by Sep-Oct 1986, Indian started to threat "Consequence" by moving in an entire army brigade and later another 3 divisions to the close ;
4. By the early 1987, the "coward" Chinese didn't withdraw as you imagine. Instead, they moved 20,000 troops into eastern Tibet and started to mobilize her civilian departs to prepare a war;
5. The tensions started to cool down after the Indian external affairs minister's visit to China, in August 87, both sides moved their respective posts slightly apart i the S-C valley;
6. It was until 1999, both sides pulled out of the valley completely.

https://www.indiatimes.com/news/the...ith-china-through-sheer-diplomacy-260266.html
https://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/history/siachen/286-Sumdorong-Incident.html

Yes, the hawkish stance of Indian general didn't work, it was the rational heads in both sides saved each other.

 

[IndiaRising]

Really?

Let's see how did Chinese cowered based on India side story:

1. By the summer of 1984 India had established an observation post on the bank of S-C;
2. In June 1986, Indians found that Chinese was building a post on the other side;
3. by Sep-Oct 1986, Indian started to threat "Consequence" by moving in an entire army brigade and later another 3 divisions to the close ;
4. By the early 1987, the "coward" Chinese didn't withdraw as you imagine. Instead, they moved 20,000 troops into eastern Tibet and started to mobilize her civilian departs to prepare a war;
5. The tensions started to cool down after the Indian external affairs minister's visit to China, in August 87, both sides moved their respective posts slightly apart i the S-C valley;
6. It was until 1999, both sides pulled out of the valley completely.

https://www.indiatimes.com/news/the...ith-china-through-sheer-diplomacy-260266.html
https://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/history/siachen/286-Sumdorong-Incident.html

Yes, the hawkish stance of Indian general didn't work, it was the rational heads in both sides saved each other.

did arunachal pradesh accede to India or China? just like your products, your threats are fake.

 

[Mikesingh]

Really?

Let's see how did Chinese cowered based on India side story:

1. By the summer of 1984 India had established an observation post on the bank of S-C;
2. In June 1986, Indians found that Chinese was building a post on the other side;
3. by Sep-Oct 1986, Indian started to threat "Consequence" by moving in an entire army brigade and later another 3 divisions to the close ;
4. By the early 1987, the "coward" Chinese didn't withdraw as you imagine. Instead, they moved 20,000 troops into eastern Tibet and started to mobilize her civilian departs to prepare a war;
5. The tensions started to cool down after the Indian external affairs minister's visit to China, in August 87, both sides moved their respective posts slightly apart i the S-C valley;
6. It was until 1999, both sides pulled out of the valley completely.

https://www.indiatimes.com/news/the...ith-china-through-sheer-diplomacy-260266.html
https://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/history/siachen/286-Sumdorong-Incident.html

Yes, the hawkish stance of Indian general didn't work, it was the rational heads in both sides saved each other.

When you start quoting journalists who know squat about the ground realities to cook up stories sitting in their AC towers and quoting 'sources' in the government to dish out the 'official' stance to the media, then you need to think twice before you link their articles to try and prove your point.

You were neither in location in Sumdorongchu nor do you even know where exactly it is nor what actually happened. Talk to someone who attended flag meetings with the Chinese there and what transpired between the two sides. Are you aware of this? If not you need to cool your radiator.

I can post counter articles too. Here. Read it with particular ref to the para......
"General K Sundarji, ignoring the political leadership, had in 1986 set up an eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation with Chinese troops who had taken up positions inside Indian territory, a move that paid off quite well."

The Chinese were surprised by this well-orchestrated response from Indian troops which subsequently led to a change in Beijing's attitude towards New Delhi. Link......

http://archive.indianexpress.com/ne...in-confrontation-with-chinese-troops/995479/1

Anyway, I am familiar with the area and was on the spot when this was going on. So don't try and clutch at straws to prove that the Chinese withdrew under 'diplomatic agreements' as mentioned in the links you took the trouble of posting to try and prove your point.

The fact is that the PLA was ordered to get the hell out of there, which was conveyed to them in the flag meetings, or face the consequences. They understood the seriousness of the issue and quickly withdrew. All this crap about them moving 20000 PLA troops in East Tibet is bullshit. They just readjusted their troops which were already deployed in the sector.

 

[AnantS]

@Mikesingh saar great info would like to know more. But nice thrashing that brain dead chinese bot. Really makes me wonder the quality of people Commie Pigs hire for propaganda. You are expecting too much from him, he will only vomit what is taught or sanctioned in Commie Re learning camps.

 

[Indian Sniper.001]

Sundarjee was a hawk. Even the Chinese cowered under his gaze when they quickly withdrew from Somdorongchu in 1987 when warned by Sundarjee of dire consequences if they did not vacate encroached territory.

We need more generals like him!!

Bhai, this might be a bad question. How do you rate Bipin Rawat as a strategist? He is from the same school as Gen Sunderji, right? Considering he too is offense, rather than defensive offense?