Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest

[Babloo Singh]

Its payload is 6ton. Also, it is suspicious as to how its MToW is 17 ton while F404 powered tejas has 13.5 ton. 10% increase in thrust 9M2k = 95kN and F404 = 86kN)should have given MToW of 15 ton only. So, the MToW may be 15ton and payload 4ton in reality.
This is a light fighter by payload

M2K has higher wing area, over all lift generated is dependent on aerodynamic design of aircraft... IAF Jaguar has MTOF of 15.7 ton with two 32.5 Kn engine.

 

[WolfPack86]

India and US fighter aircraft deal in 2019.

 

[WolfPack86]

US ambassador proposes Indo-American helicopters, unmanned combat vehicles
Kenneth Juster, America’s recently arrived ambassador to India, has identified defence and counter-terrorism as a “key pillar” of Indo-US cooperation.

Making his first public speech in New Delhi on Thursday, Juster noted that “In little more than a decade, US defence trade with India has expanded from virtually nothing to over 15 billion dollars and includes sales of some of America’s most advanced military equipment.”

Juster outlined a US wish list for the next wave of arms sales to India, naming “fighter aircraft production; and the co-development of next generation systems, including a Future Vertical Lift platform or Advanced Technology Ground Combat Vehicles.”

Washington officials have been backing an offer by Lockheed Martin to manufacture the F-16 Block 70 fighter in India, and Boeing’s offer to build its F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fighter for the Indian Navy. However, this is the first time a senior US official has publicly mentioned a proposal to co-develop a range of combat helicopters (Future Vertical Lift platform) or unmanned ground vehicles (Advanced Technology Ground Combat Vehicle).

So far, these have been discussed only within the Defence Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI), a high-level US-India joint forum for overcoming bureaucratic hurdles and exploring new initiatives.

Senior Indian military officials, speaking off-the-record, say an Indo-US helicopter or an autonomous combat vehicle would provide a major impetus to the relationship.

Juster, who has worked since 2000 on the US-India relationship, is keenly aware of the potential for enhancing trust through co-development projects. He stated: “I want to emphasize that the United States is more than just another [arms] supplier… We seek to assist India’s efforts to build up its indigenous defence base and capabilities, as well as enhance the inter-operability of our two forces as major defence partners in the Indo-Pacific region.”

Pointing out that the two countries already conduct robust single-service exercises together, the US ambassador suggested: “it is time to consider a multi-service exercise, perhaps focused on humanitarian aid and disaster relief… [in order to] increase our comfort, ease and confidence in working together.”

The only country with which India conducts a tri-service exercises is Russia. In October, the Indian army, navy and air force sent troops to Vladivostok to take part in the tri-service Exercise Indra 2017 alongside the Russian military.

Juster also sought increased military-to-military exchanges between the two countries to build operational familiarity. “Over time, we should expand officer exchanges at our war colleges and our training facilities, and even at some point post reciprocal military liaison officers at our respective combatant commands.”

Behind the scenes, Washington has been encouraging New Delhi to station a senior military official in each of the two US combatant commands whose responsibilities cover South Asia: the US Pacific Command (PACOM) headquartered in Hawaii, and Central Command (CENTCOM) in Tampa, Florida.

Juster outlined a vision of US-India ties that rest on five pillars: defence and counter-terrorism; economic and cultural relations; energy and the environment; science, technology and health; and regional cooperation, including on Afghanistan.

Underlining Washington’s changed approach to Afghanistan, and its growing disenchantment with Pakistan, Juster pointed out that India and the US “both have a strong interest in promoting peace, security and prosperity… [by] supporting Afghanistan’s National Unity Government and helping build that country’s democratic institutions.
http://defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=525724

 

[Kshithij]

India and US fighter aircraft deal in 2019.

These are wishes of US ambassador, not reality.

Unless USA gives source codes and actual manufacturing capabilities, there is no point in making joint ventures. If India can make them internally, why let Americans come and take away the profit?

 

[WolfPack86]

These are wishes of US ambassador, not reality.

Only time will tell my friend.

 

[WolfPack86]

I rather pray to god that it will be F-18 advanced super hornet instead of F-16. It is good opportunity for HAL they should grab these at asap.

 

[WolfPack86]

These are wishes of US ambassador, not reality.

Unless USA gives source codes and actual manufacturing capabilities, there is no point in making joint ventures. If India can make them internally, why let Americans come and take away the profit?

In reality no country will give tot not even Russia. Russia with held technology transfer for T-90 tank. We just assembling T-90 tank in India. Russia also refused technology transfer for SU-30 MKI and we just assembling SU-30 MKI in India.

 

[WolfPack86]

We just need buy a fighter aircraft for arresting a depleting squardon strength of Indian Air Force. When Indian Govt sanctioned AMCA in 2016 during Manohar Parikkar time and fast tracked in 2017 we just need engine technology, stealth and other avionics. Just wait and watch India will stun USA by making Stealth fighter aircraft in 2020 or 2021. And we can give run money to USA and challenge them in fighter aircraft in production near future.

 

[Kshithij]

In reality no country will give tot not even Russia. Russia with held technology transfer for T-90 tank. We just assembling T-90 tank in India. Russia also refused technology transfer for SU-30 MKI and we just assembling SU-30 MKI in India.

Actuually T90MS is 90% indigenous. Su30 is 55% indigenous by value and 75% indigenous by parts. Russia gave 7 cryogenic engines to India too to reverse engineer

 

[Sancho]

In reality no country will give tot not even Russia. Russia with held technology transfer for T-90 tank. We just assembling T-90 tank in India. Russia also refused technology transfer for SU-30 MKI and we just assembling SU-30 MKI in India.

That's not correct, because even assembly would include ToT to do the assembly job. There is just the misconception in the public, that ToT means transfering high techs and development secrets, which certainly was not the case in past deals like Mig 21s or Jags, but kept improving over the years.
MKI in fact is still the deal than included the most ToT, otherwise we couldn't bring the level of indigenous content to the same level of LCA today, nor could we integrate our own systems in it either.
MMRCA was supposed to get the level of critical ToT to a new level and the amount of high techs we had built in India if the deal had gone through, was unprecedented, but thx to Dassault India got a huge loss.
Now the NDA government puts their hope on the strategic partnership model and openly stated that ToT is the key (but if you look at the fine print, costs seems to be the key), so without any major deal that includes licence production, the level of ToT remains low => see Rafale deal now.

 

[Sancho]

We just need buy a fighter aircraft for arresting a depleting squardon strength of Indian Air Force.

Nope, we need a fighter that offers the capabilities to take on numerical superior Chinese J10s and J11s. That's not possible with decades old F16s, with limited capable EW, or weapons.
The squadron numbers are paper figure and include useless Jags or Mig 21s so far as well and we know that they won't stand a chance in a modern war anymore. Nor can we wait for 2035+ till an AMCA could be available. We need capable MMRCA and FGFA to deter China!

 

[WolfPack86]

Nope, we need a fighter that offers the capabilities to take on numerical superior Chinese J10s and J11s. That's not possible with decades old F16s, with limited capable EW, or weapons.
The squadron numbers are paper figure and include useless Jags or Mig 21s so far as well and we know that they won't stand a chance in a modern war anymore. Nor can we wait for 2035+ till an AMCA could be available. We need capable MMRCA and FGFA to deter China!

Which MMRCA fighter is better Rafale or Eurofighter Typhoon both are good fighter.

 

[Sancho]

Which MMRCA fighter is better Rafale or Eurofighter Typhoon both are good fighter.

That's not the question anymore, but if we take F16s or Gripen E's and technically as well as future potential wise, there is no doubt that the F16 is less capable.

 

[Pandeyji]

Actually his article was pro Tejas, since he claimed it could be a solution instead of F16 or Gripen. That's however based on the misconception that LCA is competing with them, which it isn't.

I am talking about this

For a development programme that was sanctioned in 1983, the light fighter has come a long way. After limping its way through the 2000s, the single-engine jet has shown promise of late, maybe not as a cutting edge, globally competitive fighter but certainly as a platform that will enhance India’s combat capabilities within the region.

Seems like that our desi journos(especially angrezi patrakar) have a daily quota of saying Tejas started in 1983. I never read it in hindi media. And if I am guessing right 1 would never find such gibberish in media of other Indian languages.

This is crucial, because it's a problem that we have seen throughout the last decades, that DRDO vetos / lobbies against procurements, by claiming they can develop similar on their own! But as Kaveri, indigenous MMR, Helina or the AIP for subs showed us, they constantly fail to deliver and the forces are left with less capabilities to defend the country.

So if we once again fall for DRDOs claims LCA MK1A will have high risks of delays, which then puts tre whole Tejas programme at risk!

Last time I checked AIP is working and it was Airforce which was against taking French help on Kaveri.
Infact I would love it if there is really in the country a DRDO lobby or we would keep hearing the same old Single Engine Fighter song with its scare-mongering lyrics.

 

[Sancho]

I am talking about this
Seems like that our desi journos(especially angrezi patrakar) have a daily quota of saying Tejas started in 1983.

Nothing wrong with that:
http://up.picr.de/31521823vf.png

Source: CAG report 2015

Last time I checked AIP is working and it was Airforce which was against taking French help on Kaveri.

Here again you need to check your facts, because DRDO only has an AIP prototype, but failed to fully develop and modify a production version into a module for the Scorpene. That's why the plan of fitting the AIP into the last 2 Scorpene was scrapped and IN now is left without any AIP sub => all because DRDO claimed they can deliver on time.
Same goes for Kaveri and IAF was against French help to fix the mess DRDO already created, because they wanted further development on the Indian core, rather than using a French one.
DRDO simply claims far more than they actually can deliver and that leads to delays in developments or modernisation, which makes India more vulnerable. Let them develop and deliver something and we can retrofit their products later, but we have to stop to listen to their fake promises and make defence modernisations dependent on them.

 

[Kshithij]

Nothing wrong with that:
http://up.picr.de/31521823vf.png

Source: CAG report 2015


Here again you need to check your facts, because DRDO only has an AIP prototype, but failed to fully develop and modify a production version into a module for the Scorpene. That's why the plan of fitting the AIP into the last 2 Scorpene was scrapped and IN now is left without any AIP sub => all because DRDO claimed they can deliver on time.
Same goes for Kaveri and IAF was against French help to fix the mess DRDO already created, because they wanted further development on the Indian core, rather than using a French one.
DRDO simply claims far more than they actually can deliver and that leads to delays in developments or modernisation, which makes India more vulnerable. Let them develop and deliver something and we can retrofit their products later, but we have to stop to listen to their fake promises and make defence modernisations dependent on them.

Who told you that DRDO claimed to deliver AIP on time? When did DRDO even start a project on AIP?

 

[binayak95]

Who told you that DRDO claimed to deliver AIP on time? When did DRDO even start a project on AIP?

The last 2 Scorpenes were supposed to have AIP developed by DRDO. They are having issues with miniaturization and noise levels.

The Navy's pissed, especially since DCNS saw a chance and jacked up a premium for their MESMA, since it was not a part of the original contract.

 

[Pandeyji]

Nothing wrong with that:
http://up.picr.de/31521823vf.png

Source: CAG report 2015

That is exactly what I am talking about. What is the need for playing the same bloody tune again & again. To better understand what I am talking about reas these.

https://m.navbharattimes.indiatimes...-on-indigenous-tejas/articleshow/62181786.cms

https://m.jagran.com/news/national-air-force-demands-33-tejas-from-hal-17235194.html

No 1983, production delay r***i rona.

Also thank you for the AIP info I may have missed some facts or misunderstood them.

P.S.:- why I am unable upload image

 

[WolfPack86]

Defence Minister to fly SU -30 MKI.

 

[Sancho]

And we all were thinking that mk2 & AMCA were at conjecture stage & blaming the IAF for not supporting the programs.

Well there was never a doubt about IAFs support or commitments of the Tejas programme, only false conclusions that it competes with the SE MMRCA requirement, because both would have just a single engine.
All that is limiting Tejas, is it's own development progress, that will decide it's success and future upgrades or orders.