Ilyushin Il-476: Options for India

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by sathya, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. sathya

    sathya Regular Member

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    Classic Ilyushin’s 40-year-old Il-76 design has been extensively reworked and will re-enter production in 2014, Dubbed has Il-476, it is a new-generation Il-76 transport aircraft which features new Perm PS-90A-76 engines, a Kupol-M avionics suite from Kotlin-Novator and a new glass cockpit.

    II-476 variant offers 10% lower fuel burn, and will have an increased maximum takeoff weight of 210t. The new aircraft will have a range of 2,700nm (5,000km) with a 52t payload, and can also be operated from paved and unpaved runways with an elevation of up to 9,840ft (3,000m).

    Russia recently carried out its first flight of this new generation aircraft and has also placed orders of 39 aircrafts for its airforce; Russia also has orders of 30 aircrafts by Chinese air force. aircraft will enter production by 2014 and Russia will target old users to have export success and India and china are largest operators’ of this transport aircraft and both are looking for retiring them in next few years .

    “Classic” Il-76s is been operated by many forces in the world and many actually are on the verge of been phased out in next few years, Indian air force currently operates nearly Two Dozen of Russian made Il-76 aircrafts.

    IAF operates 17 Il-76MD which are powered by older engines and 6 Il-78MKI Aerial Tankers and 3 A-50 AWACS which are powered by new generation PS-90A-76 engines, IAF some years back had complained that they were not happy with supply of spares for the new PS-90A-76 engines, but that seems to have sorted out.

    Indian air force has ordered 10 Boeing C-17 Globemaster III which makes IAF second largest operator of this fleet after USA , and options for more jets are open in the original contract . IAF will consider availability of cheaper II-476.

    II-476 will offer Indian air force a cheaper replacement to its 17 Il-76MD fleet and also will require minimal infrastructure and Trained manpower support for this aircrafts and future A-50 Awacs for Russian air force will be based on this aircraft and II-476 could also be one of the platforms on which DRDO developed AWACS could be mounted . “Awacs India “Project requires new long range aircraft and considering current AWACS are based on Il-76 platform.

    [​IMG]

    Ilyushin Il-476: Options for India | idrw.org
     
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  3. mikhail

    mikhail Senior Member Senior Member

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    yes this aircraft will be much cheaper than C-17 Globemaster III and given our previous vast experience about the IL-76s it will be far more convinient for our IAF to operate!:thumb:
     
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  4. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    Il-76 is very difficult to operate and maintain( words form IAF maintenance crew). and with many more countries willing to sell similar aircrafts i think Indian Air Force should look for other options, those options who not only fulfill order on time and in the given budget and not like the russians who qoute some different price then demand more money in between period. moreover russia seldom fulfill order on time, they have track record of delays ( be it russian federation or ussr).
     
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  5. uvbar

    uvbar Regular Member

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    russian aircraft has been always better than american, like american navy has been better than russian navy
     
  6. Snuggy321

    Snuggy321 Regular Member

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    too late, deal has already been signed and the first IAF C17 is only a few month away from its 1st flight,
    But I ask myself if we can upgrade our curren IL 76 fleet to IL 476 standart?
     
  7. average american

    average american Senior Member Senior Member

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    I am a little curious how you could come to that conclusion considering 1000 crashing migs, Russian having one of the worse air safety records in the world and about a 20 to 1 lost ratio against US planes.
     
  8. GromHellscream

    GromHellscream Regular Member

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    China won't buy this plane, though it's possible for PLAAF in the following several years, to buy tens of second-hand IL76 directly from Russian Airforce and their Soviet reserve. IL476 is not bad, but it lost China as a custom for maturing itself too late.
     
  9. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Not to pick on AA, but when statements like this are posted, citing sources adds considerable credibility and cuts down on the ensuing pissing contests.
     
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  10. average american

    average american Senior Member Senior Member

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    MiG-21s, the first supersonic fighters to be inducted by IAF in 1963, have proved to be of great service over the years but have also been dogged by a horrific crash track-record. The majority of the over 1,000 crashes recorded since 1970 have involved MiG-21s.

    Another MiG-21 crashes, pilot ejects safely - Times Of India

    Kill Ratios
    Irans F-14s ___ 123:13
    USN F-14As ____ 4:0

    IAF F-15s _____ 63:0
    SAAF F-15s ____ 4:0 All against Iranian aircraft -2 F-4E & 2 F.1EQ
    USAFs F-15s ___ 36:0

    EPA F-16s _____ 2:3 (Greek AF victories over Turkish AF)
    IAFs F-16s ____ 52:0 (NOTE#1)
    NAF F-16A _____ 1:0 (NOTE#2)
    PakAF F-16s ___ 11:0 (NOTE#3)
    THK F-16s _____ 3:2 (Turkish AF victories over Greek AF)
    USAFs F-16s ___ 3:0 (NOTE#4)

    USN F/A-18s ___ 2:0 (Against two Iraqi MiG.-21's)

    MiG.-29 _______ 10:28
    Su-27 _________ (NOTE#5)


    NOTEs;
    1) Syria list four unconfirmed kills on IAF F-16s
    2) Dutch AF's F-16A/MLU killed 1 Serbian MiG.-29
    3) Indian AF makes no confirmed kill but, 8 unconfirmed kills claimed by Indian AF against Pakistani AF
    4) 1 MiG.25, 2 Galebs all with Slammer Missiles
    5) USAF & IAF have 9:0 kill ratio against MiG.-29's
    6) Itemized totals;
    3 Kills Confirmed
    4 kills Unconfirmed
    Victims ___ 1 L-39 Albatross and 6 MiG.-29's
    No Su-27's shot down. All incidents except one (the kill of the L-39 by the RuAF) occurred in the Erethian / Ethioppian War.
    The West has gained access to the Su-27 through mainly the states of the former CIS. Belarus, Moldova and, the Ukraine. I don't know how helpful Russia has been.

    A pretty good place for information on aerial kills is -http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/index.shtml
    On the left side of the page kills are listed by theater of operations.

    Modern Air-to-Air & Air-to-Ground kill record thread





    U.S. F-15 Eagle Kill Records:

    5 Iraqi Mig-29 Fulcrums
    7 Iraqi Mirage F-1's
    8 Iraqi Mig-23's
    2 Iraqi Mig-21's
    1 Iraqi ll-76
    2 Iraqi SU-25 Frogfoots
    3 Iarqi SU-7/17
    1 Iraqi MI-24 Hind
    2 Iraqi SU-22 Fitters
    2 Iraqi MIG-25 Foxbats
    4 Serbian Mig-29 Fulcrums
    1 Afghan MI-24 Hind (F-15E)
    2 U.S. UH-60 Blackhawks (fratricide)

    Israeli F-15 kill records:

    80-92 Mig-21 Fishbeds
    several MIG-25 Foxbats

    Royal Saudi Air Force F-15 kill records:

    2 Iranian F-4E Phantoms
    2 Iraqi F-1 Mirages
    1 Iraqi Mig-25

    Japanese F-15 kill record:

    1 Japanese F-15J (accidental shooting by another Japanese F-15J)

    U.S. F/A-18C Hornet kill record:

    2 Mig-21 Fishbeds

    U.S. F-14 Tomcat kill records:

    2 Libyan SU-22 Fitters
    2 Libyan Mig-23 Floggers
    1 Iraqi MI-8 Hip

    Iranian F-14 Tomcat kill record:

    ?????

    U.S. F-16 Fighting Falcon kill records:

    1 Iraqi Mig-29 or Mig-23
    1 Serbian Mig-29
    4 Serbian Soko G-4 Super Galebs
    1 Iraqi Mig-25 (first AMRAAM kill)

    Israel F-16 kill records:

    2 Syrian MI-8 Hips
    44 Syrian Migs (mostly Floggers)

    Dutch F-16 kill record:

    1 Serbian Mig-29

    PAF F-16 kill records:

    2 Russian SU-22 Fitters
    8 Afghan Aircrafts
    1 PAF F-16 (fratricide)


    U.S. A-10 Warthog kill record (tanks and aircrafts):

    2 Iraqi Mi-8 Hips
    850 + Iraqi T-72 MBTs, T-62 MBTs, & T-55 MBTs
    300 Iraqi APCs

    U.K AV-8A Sea Harrier kills in the Falkland War:

    1 C-130 Hercules
    1 Mirage III
    9 Mirage V's
    1 Canberra
    1 Pucara
    6 A-4 Skyhawks



    Iraqi MIG-25PD kill record:

    1 U.S. Navy F/A-18C Hornet

    Ethiopian SU-27 kill record:

    4 Eritrean MiG-29s

    Eritrean MiG-29 kill record:

    1 Ethiopian Mig-21

    Russian MIG-29 Fulcrum kill record:

    1 Afghan SU-22 Fitter

    Iraqi Mig-21 kill record:

    1 Iranian F-14 Tomcat
    Other Iranian/Kuwait aircrafts?

    Indian Mig-21 kill record:

    4 PAF F-104 Starfighters
     
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  11. average american

    average american Senior Member Senior Member

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    Russian flight safety takes nosedive - Business - US business - Aviation | NBC News

    Accident rate 13 times world average; lax scrutiny, race for profits blamed

    You are actually buying planes from a country that has an accident 13 times the world average, how do you think that is going to work out. Back in 1982 I flew from Keiv to Samarkan in the USSR, there was a light rain and I looked out the window, I could actually see the wire in the tires of the plane they were so worn, twice I was on planes where the seats would not set upright and the planes had been painted with paint brushs on the inside.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
  12. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    That is preventative maintenance, not the same as design or QA in manufacture.
     
  13. average american

    average american Senior Member Senior Member

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    Life dont work like that, you dont have incompentence, corruption in one area and perfection in another.
     
  14. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Don't know about your philosophical musings, I am talking about practical concepts: preventative maintenance is not the same as design or QA in manufacture.
     
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  15. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    Aviastar-SP - Il-76MD-90A Heavy Military Transport Aircraft



    Published on Oct 9, 2014, by arronlee33
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Russian planes are cost prohibitive when it comes to fuel consumption.
     
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  17. Raj Malhotra

    Raj Malhotra Regular Member

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    Fuel costs are minuscule portion of operating costs in an Air force during peace time. An air lifter will fly around 500 hours on average per year. The main costs are Capital costs, support Infrastructure, special tools, manpower, spare stocks, scheduled maintenance etc. I am all for :-

    Modernized IL-76 & IL-476 instead of C-17s and Airbus 330 refuelers.

    MRTA instead of C-130s and Avro replacement aircraft.

    But in return Russia must give us rights of assembly in India + ToT for PD-14 engine series.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    AN-32 and the strategic lift IL-76 aircrafts, Mi 17 form the backbone of India's security in Siachen and Ladakh sectors.

    The airlift cost is very high and much of it is because of fuel. They are fuel guzzlers compared to the US planes.

    Capital costs, support Infrastructure, special tools, manpower, spare stocks, scheduled maintenance et al will be applicable for all aircraft, be it of any foreign origin.

    In fact, American airlifters, be they air transporters or helicopters, are more sophisticated and so the maintenance and spares will be more expensive, but from the issue of fuel efficiency will be much easier on India.

    Fuel matters since the cost of fuel depends on foreign import and it is astronomical at times.
     
  19. archie

    archie Regular Member

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    Is there any estimate of specific fuel burn .. say moving 10T of cargo 100Km what would be the fuel burn diffrence IL 76(Old) vs IL 476 Vs C-17?
     

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