If we've to choose between Israel and Iran, choose the former

[The Messiah]

Gents,

Think about it differently

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia is the real problem behind Islamic Terrorism is world over.

Pakistan has America by the balls due to its route to Afghanistan.

Now, imagine Iran has a regime change, de-nuclearized and is an American ally.

America has a new route to Afghanistan, American dependency on Pakistan goes.

America can and will get all help regarding Iran from Israel and all other GCC countries

Pakistan is fvcked beyond anything India can conjure up, if Iran is an American ally and India can even get boots on the ground in Afghanistan.

There is no reason to believe an American allied Iran will not become an Indian ally too.

The Game really changes. China and its ally Pakistan gets fvcked beyond anything.

We aren't supporting the regime are we ?

The whole point is that we will get oil and access to central asia whether the current regime is inplace or some other yank puppet.

i still haven't understood how India is siding iran ? by buying oil ? half a dozen european are currently buying oil also and we voted against them in the nuclear thing in the un.

it is win-win situation for us right now...we only lose by stopping oil purchases now.

 

[Adux]

We aren't supporting the regime are we ?

The whole point is that iran is that we will get oil and access to central asia whether the current regime is inplace or some other yank puppet.

i still haven't understood how India is siding iran ? by buying oil ? half a dozen european are currently buying oil also and we voted against them in the nuclear thing in the un.

it is win-win situation for us right now...we only lose by stopping oil purchases now.

We should be forcing the US and its allies to start a war in Iran.

Now is it better done by stopping oil purchases or siding with the sanctions and pressuring the Iranians

I think we should continue to buy oil, all the while pushing them to war.

 

[The Messiah]

We should be forcing the US and its allies to start a war in Iran.

Now is it better done by stopping oil purchases or siding with the sanctions and pressuring the Iranians

I think we should continue to buy oil, all the while pushing them to war.

why should we force the hand and become the enemy in the eyes of iranians people when the said hand is about to strike itself ? our nod is irrelevant when it comes to military intervention.

there is no reason to make enemies unnecessarily when we get what we want without siding with anyone.

allright we already know if a yank puppet is in place it will be friendly to us and the current one is also cooperating with us. so when we are more or less happy with both then it would be only foolish to pick a side.

if war starts we wont be able to buy oil until the war is finished.

point is we dont need to do anything because we win whatever happens. lay back, continue the status quo and watch the drama unfold.

 

[Adux]

I have never said we should be open about it, but we have to make sure there is a regime change.
Pakistan can squeezed like a tomato. That should be our target. Imagine a day without Pakistan threatening India, and China loosing its strongest hand in South Asia. That eventuality is far greater than any Iranian people's hate or dislike, which they may do anyways on a kafir country

 

[The Messiah]

Besides the war wont be like iraq with soldiers on the ground.

They'll probably blow up the nuclear plants and military bases with bombers and missiles and be done with.

 

[Adux]

Besides the war wont be like iraq with soldiers on the ground.

They'll probably blow up the nuclear plants and military bases with bombers and missiles and be done with.

That remains to be seen and mostly I concur with you. Our aim should be to open a route to Afghanistan through Iran. Not possible until there is a regime change. Defanging of Pakistan is in our long term strategic objective, no price is too much for it, especially if we can make America do that for us. And they will do it, simply because Pakistan is a out of control crazy islamist shithole. They wont stop making terrorist.

 

[Adux]

why should we force the hand and become the enemy in the eyes of iranians people when the said hand is about to strike itself ? our nod is irrelevant when it comes to military intervention.

there is no reason to make enemies unnecessarily when we get what we want without siding with anyone.

allright we already know if a yank puppet is in place it will be friendly to us and the current one is also cooperating with us. so when we are more or less happy with both then it would be only foolish to pick a side.

if war starts we wont be able to buy oil until the war is finished.

point is we dont need to do anything because we win whatever happens. lay back, continue the status quo and watch the drama unfold.

We do have to pick a side, there is no avoiding that messiah. We will loose out on future contracts if we dont with the Americans, we will loose current contracts if we choose against Iran now. So, then it all comes to timing. The French did that to perfection in Libya. We have to do that in Iran. We should and we will turn against Iran, the moment there is a proper and well concerted regime change move. We cannot repeat the stupidity we did in Libya, imagine two years ago the French were trying to sell Rafale's to Libya.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Ideal situation will be, we side with none, and that ought to be the way forward.

But if it comes to taking sides, we first need to be convinced that the present iranian regime will be changed asap, we should be looking at definite timelines by when the change will happen, and the side to take will be Israel. Take a side only when we feel absolutely assured that the end of the Iranian mullah regime is inevitable, and is a matter of a month or two, if not less.

The utility of iran is not that much about energy resources, but the access point they provide us to CAR, and most vitally to Afghanistan, a country we will be working very closely with once the US and allies are out of that place.

What we have been reading off late, and seeing on the news channels all seems to be a part of concerted effort to form an opinion contrary to one taken, few of these news outleats/media houses would be making a lot of money.Good thing is, government has neither got carried away, nor has buckled under pressure, though there are going to be definite cuts in sourcing of oil from iran on short term basis, which is fair enough. We, as a country or our companies dont have to end up getting sanctioned for the heck of someone else, but just imagine US does sanction one of the companies, and that would be the end of f35, if it ever had any chance in the IN MMRCA contest, so it could also be a ploy to test the waters.

Let us not get too worried about Israel, they are in a realigning mode, much like the rest of the world, and India with tons and tons of money will always remain important to them, a country set to be the 3rd largest economy in a little over a decade, and the main thing, the keys of Israel are to be found through the US, so the doors wont be shut on us till the time the US perceives china as a threat to them. The time to take a call will come if Romney wins the presidential elections, that is when unprecedented levels of pressure will be applied.

 

[Yusuf]

TR, your point actually hits the real reason bang on the head. It's about regime change more than just nukes. In Iraq it was "confirmed" intel about WMDs now it's the alleged developments of nukes. So India as in the case of Libya has to chose which way it wants to go. The food part about India's relations with Iran is the people to people contact which will come in very handy.

Really surprising that the US has over the years not tried to somehow work a deal with the mullahs. High the US preaches democracy, it has over the years done well with authoritarian regimes.

 

[Yusuf]

We do have to pick a side, there is no avoiding that messiah. We will loose out on future contracts if we dont with the Americans, we will loose current contracts if we choose against Iran now. So, then it all comes to timing. The French did that to perfection in Libya. We have to do that in Iran. We should and we will turn against Iran, the moment there is a proper and well concerted regime change move. We cannot repeat the stupidity we did in Libya, imagine two years ago the French were trying to sell Rafale's to Libya.

Americans will walk away with all the contracts and all the oil in Iran and our investment so far will be brought to nought. There are conflict of interests in Iran. We will be left with THENGA!!

 

[KS]

Israel wants India to back UN resolution on 'Iran attacks'

Israel wants India to back UN resolution on ‘Iran attacks’ - Indian Express

In what may put New Delhi in a spot, Israel has asked India to help sponsor a resolution against Iran in the United Nations Security Council condemning Monday's attack on one of its diplomats in Delhi, as well as the incidents in Tblisi and Bangkok.
It is learnt that Israel's ambassador to India Alon Ushpiz raised this with External Affairs Minister S M Krishna on Thursday after Tel Aviv filed a formal complaint against Iran to the United Nations Secretary General Ban ki-Moon. India, which is also a UNSC member, has conveyed it will look into the matter.

Israel wants this complaint to be followed up by a UNSC resolution that condemns these incidents and specifically censures Iran. Israeli authorities claim that Iran and the Hezbollah were behind these attacks, alleging that "international terrorism is a pillar of Iran's foreign policy".

New Delhi is not prepared to be part of any resolution which names Iran without specific evidence corroborating these allegations. An Israeli forensics team joined Indian investigators today to collate material evidence. South Block feels that despite the statements from Bangkok, there is no "clinching evidence" against Iran yet.

There is a gap in the political conversation between both sides. Tel Aviv has urged New Delhi to treat Monday's incident as an attack against India, not just Israel. But India does not want to get drawn into what it sees as a fight between Israel and Iran. Matters get complicated when parallels are drawn with Pak-sponsored terrorism. Israel, which has supported India on terror issues at every forum, feels that both countries are victims and should stand in solidarity.

In its complaint to the UN Secretary General, Israel has taken exception to the fact that the UNSC is yet to condemn the incident.

As I said in the other thread the time for fence sitting is soon coming to an end and sooner rather than later India will be forced to choose between Israel or Iran.

 

[KS]

Relevant news.

http://defenceforumindia.com/foreign-relations/31913-israel-wants-india-back-un-resolution-%E2%80%98iran-attacks%E2%80%99.html#post425030

 

[ashicjose]

India is a soft target and can make it a play ground for anyone.

All this happening because each and every terrorist attacks on India gone without any punishment and whole world knows what will be the reaction of our government on these kind incidents.
Why our politicians lacks guts to act. Like Priyanka Vadera said if Indira Gandhi was the P/M when 26 Mumbai happened she would made all of proud of our country.

 

[Adux]

Americans will walk away with all the contracts and all the oil in Iran and our investment so far will be brought to nought. There are conflict of interests in Iran. We will be left with THENGA!!

I will take that coconut, and I will worship it. An American friendly shia Iran will be the greatest gift we can against sunni pakistan producing terrorist and to be honest nobody is in control anymore. The attention on Islamic terror hasnt gone anywhere, we need to divert it to Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan is the key. Americans can take all the oil contracts, we will buy it at market rates, but the finishing off Pakistan, stabilization of Afghanistan and our direct access to CAR is far more important than getting oil at a discounted price.

 

[Adux]

Ideal situation will be, we side with none, and that ought to be the way forward.

Not really, nobody likes a fence sitter, neither Iran nor USA. As of now it is better to be fence sitter. Learn from the French here.

But if it comes to taking sides, we first need to be convinced that the present iranian regime will be changed asap, we should be looking at definite timelines by when the change will happen, and the side to take will be Israel. Take a side only when we feel absolutely assured that the end of the Iranian mullah regime is inevitable, and is a matter of a month or two, if not less.

So timing is the key.

The utility of iran is not that much about energy resources, but the access point they provide us to CAR, and most vitally to Afghanistan, a country we will be working very closely with once the US and allies are out of that place.

Afghanistan and Iran is not going to anti-india just because US is going to be there. US-India relationship will get stronger, as long as the China threat exist.

What we have been reading off late, and seeing on the news channels all seems to be a part of concerted effort to form an opinion contrary to one taken, few of these news outleats/media houses would be making a lot of money.Good thing is, government has neither got carried away, nor has buckled under pressure, though there are going to be definite cuts in sourcing of oil from iran on short term basis, which is fair enough. We, as a country or our companies dont have to end up getting sanctioned for the heck of someone else, but just imagine US does sanction one of the companies, and that would be the end of f35, if it ever had any chance in the IN MMRCA contest, so it could also be a ploy to test the waters.

There is no buckling under pressure, what the media is talking is practical sense, what Maroof Raza is saying is what India should be doing. We are doing what we are good at, that is doing nothing. But times have changed, more is expected out of India. There is no someone else business here, Nuclear Iran is not in our interest. Simple. Friendlier Iran regime to Israel and USA is better for us with regards to Pakistan. The status quo is not good for us.

Let us not get too worried about Israel, they are in a realigning mode, much like the rest of the world, and India with tons and tons of money will always remain important to them, a country set to be the 3rd largest economy in a little over a decade, and the main thing, the keys of Israel are to be found through the US, so the doors wont be shut on us till the time the US perceives china as a threat to them. The time to take a call will come if Romney wins the presidential elections, that is when unprecedented levels of pressure will be applied

.

There is something that will be always more important than money, that is existence .

 

[The Messiah]

I will take that coconut, and I will worship it. An American friendly shia Iran will be the greatest gift we can against sunni pakistan producing terrorist and to be honest nobody is in control anymore. The attention on Islamic terror hasnt gone anywhere, we need to divert it to Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan is the key. Americans can take all the oil contracts, we will buy it at market rates, but the finishing off Pakistan, stabilization of Afghanistan and our direct access to CAR is far more important than getting oil at a discounted price.

I doubt usa will ever "destroy" pakistan. imo they will never abandon pakistan because it is perfect post to check India and china.

without pakistan they have no presence in the region. the last friendly shia iran was ordered to divert military hardware to pakistan in 1971 but lets leave that to cold war politics

what im saying is no one will erase the paki scumbags...we'll have to do it ourselves somewhere down the line. pok is the key to afghanistan, centreal asia. we must get hold of it!

 

[Adux]

I doubt usa will ever "destroy" pakistan. imo they will never abandon pakistan because it is perfect post to check India and china.

without pakistan they have no presence in the region. the last friendly shia iran was ordered to divert military hardware to pakistan in 1971 but lets leave that to cold war politics

what im saying is no one will erase the paki scumbags...we'll have to do it ourselves somewhere down the line. pok is the key to afghanistan, centreal asia. we must get hold of it!

1. How will they check India if they have to check China
2. How will they check India with Pakistan, when Pakistan is in China camp, therefore going against 1
3. How will they ally with Pakistan, when Pakistan keeps on sending Islamic terrorist
4. This is not the Cold War anymore, There is in USSR in CAR
5. There is no need of Pakistan, because they are in Iran, Afghanistan and Iraq, Baharin, Kuwait, Saudi etc etc etc etc
6. Pakistan cannot and will not stop the rise of Islamic terrorism in its soil,
7. The reason America is dependent on Pakistan, is now Afghanistan.
8. Iran has problems with Pakistan anyways. Being US friendly is not going to change that.

 

[Adux]

Messaih,

Ofcourse we will have to do it ourselves, but we have to scene, the present status quo is not conducive . We need to pressure Pakistan from Afghanistan, Iran , India and ofcourse the US. For Afghanistan to stablize, US needs a route in. Iran is not budging, they have to. Iran going nuclear is not an option for us. The lesser number of nuclear powers the better for us. Iran has to back down.

 

[The Messiah]

Messaih,

Ofcourse we will have to do it ourselves, but we have to scene, the present status quo is not conducive . We need to pressure Pakistan from Afghanistan, Iran , India and ofcourse the US. For Afghanistan to stablize, US needs a route in. Iran is not budging, they have to. Iran going nuclear is not an option for us. The lesser number of nuclear powers the better for us. Iran has to back down.

To get a proper stance of usa ragarding pakistan we must demand they help in balocistan getting independence and in return we'll help them in our region. If they reject then we'll know there real stance.

Agreed about the nuclear part....ive never said they should have nukes.

 

[The Messiah]

1. How will they check India if they have to check China
2. How will they check India with Pakistan, when Pakistan is in China camp, therefore going against 1
3. How will they ally with Pakistan, when Pakistan keeps on sending Islamic terrorist
4. This is not the Cold War anymore, There is in USSR in CAR
5. There is no need of Pakistan, because they are in Iran, Afghanistan and Iraq, Baharin, Kuwait, Saudi etc etc etc etc
6. Pakistan cannot and will not stop the rise of Islamic terrorism in its soil,
7. The reason America is dependent on Pakistan, is now Afghanistan.
8. Iran has problems with Pakistan anyways. Being US friendly is not going to change that.

1. India will be checked because of no direct land route to CAR and china will be checked because pakis would be under usa control rather than under chini control. No major access to arabian sea for chinis.
2. Read above. Plus pakis will keep us busy with there usual anti-India stance. Even now at there lowest point in there relationship the yanks have more control on pakis than china.
3. These terrorists would be India specific and no consequence to usa. They just made a deal with the taliban a couple of weeks ago.
4. I dont see the relevence of this point ???
5. They are withdrawing from afghanistan while iraq, kuwait are all ME centric rather than south asia centric. They will have control over pakis...trust me.
6. Agreed.
7. Agreed. But when they withdraw from afghanistan then they wont be dependent on pakistan.
8. Agreed.