If Raja Raja Chola helped the Rajputs defeat Mahmud of Ghazni

Discussion in 'Military History' started by ashdoc, Oct 27, 2012.

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Would Raja Raja Chola have defeated Ghazni ?

  1. Yup

    72.7%
  2. Nope

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Can't Say

    21.2%
  4. He was as bad as Ghazni

    6.1%
  1. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    I think as far as Pakis and China are concerned we dont have any doubts about their
    intentions

    But yes our people do tend to FALL for glossy garbage like Aman ki Asha and Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai

    But our enemies are so good they wake up us Indians in the nick of time

    Our enemies just cant resist needling and provoking us or RATHER reminding us that
    How evil they are

    Secondly India was known as BHARAT VARSH right from the times of Pandavas

    So there was a sort of cultural and religious affinity if not anything else

    Any way I am NOT blaming Rajputs THEY have SACRIFICED immensely in all possible ways

    AND undergone both hardships and humiliation but they did not convert en masse
    and held out for several centuries

    My only contention is the DISUNITY of Rajputs and how much that has cost India and Rajputs
    themselves
     
  2. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    You have to understand the Rajputs social and military structure for that. Will write something on it in my next post.
     
  3. MAYURA

    MAYURA New Member

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    [

    I second that.
     
  4. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Muslims ended up conquering virtually the whole of India anyway. Rajputs didn't exactly stop them. On the contrary, many of them were co-opted into the Mughal military combine and became partners in imperialism.
     
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  5. MAYURA

    MAYURA New Member

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    before akbar, there is no alliance between any muslim invader and a rajput ruler and since islam could conquer much of india only in 1311 ad some six centuries after its invasion in sindh and rajasthan, it is evident that they resisted them fiercely but after centuries of genocides perpetrated on them with grandfather of akbar raising their skulls as towers, they realized that they can not match muslims and so served them.

    humiliating but truth is bitter.

    apart from mewar, no house was independent .


    but you must be aware that Aibak and iltutmish attacked madhya pradesh but before 1300 ad, the chandellas and parmaras were still ruling and issuing coins in malwa and bundelkhand region.
    this was impressive but was disorganized.
     
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  6. HeinzGud

    HeinzGud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well what about the 700-900 AD I was referring to that. But the point you raised is worth exploring.
     
  7. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    Rajputs had total resistance against all foreign powers (however deep they might have entrenched and settled) till the demise of Rana Sanga in 1527 A.D.
    Even after that, for centuries further they had partial resistance against the Mughals. Even the ones who allied with Mughals had maintained local sovereignity in their internal affairs.
    For Mughal and post Mughal periods; a comparison of how many mosques are found in Rajputana vis a vis the rest of India easily tells the sheet anchoring done by Rajputs in their own backyards even after accepting the Mughal imperial throne.
    Needless to mention the houses that never bowed - Mewar and its vassals like Sirohi in Rajputana and even outside there were examples like bundela rajputs under the leadership of Maharaja Chhatrasal.

    Regards,
    Virendra
     
  8. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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  9. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Could be as high as 15% in Punjab and Sindh.
     
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  10. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    There is no such thing as muslim Rajputs.
    Islam is monolithic, there are no castes and varnas, while Rajput (apabhramsa of 'Rajaputra') is a Hindu caste identity.
    The moment you leave your ancient fold and join a monolithic religion like Islam, the caste born identity ceases to exist.
    You're no longer a Rajput. You can either be a Rajput or a Muslim, not both at the same time.

    Regards,
    Virendra
     
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  11. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    You know what I'm talking about :dude:
     
  12. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Rajput is also considered to be tribe/race/ethnic group by some.
    And caste system is quite prevalent in the subcontinent, even amongst atheists.
     
  13. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    I couldn't care less of what the 'some' think. There is always an alter voice.
    Things are how they are. I cannot present them in any simpler manner.
     
  14. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    You are free to disown them, but that doesn't prevent them from being proud of their Rajput origins.

    Iirc there is a very famous folklore of Muslim rajputs breaking ranks from the Mughal army to come to the rescue of Hindu Rajputs (Maharana Pratap and Akbar?)
    And then there are the Gautam Thakurs of UP.
     
  15. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Another famous case is of Malkana Rajputs who followed a lot of Hindu customs even after conversion to Islam. There was rivalry between Arya Samaj and Ahmadis over who will convert/re-convert them.

    IIRC Arya Samaj activist Swami Shraddhanand was killed because he re-converted loads of them
     
  16. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    Rajput origins Yes. Rajputs even after converting to Islam? No

    Never heard of it. I know about the composition of both the armies at Haldighati. No such muslim Rajputs.
    Let me tell you about what role religion played in those battles
    While Rajput forces of both sides clashed with each other, the Mughal cavalry archers were told (on record) by their commander to encircle the mass of Rajput soldiers and shoot arrows at will.
    As per the bigoted Al-Badauni, present at the battle, he asked Asaf Khan how their archers would distinguish between friendly and enemy Rajputs
    His reply was -”whichever side a man falls, is a gain to Islam.”
    ~Stephen P Rosen

    Going further back, when the Turks had made inroads into India, the Mongols were under the process of Islamization.
    Among all the Mongols in India there is not even a single example of Islamized Mongols under Turks, aiding the Mongols against Turks.
    There are though incidents of anti Turk Mongols findinf refuge in Rajput forts.

    Point being, once you've converted to Islam, nothing else merits higher than it. Whatever kind of Pagan/Infidel you might have been.
     
  17. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    There are many such communities .. Mehrats etc. The Rajputs stopped marrying into them. Even though after conversion they were still sitting on the fence of both religions .. practicing the ways of both sides. Remained of none.
     
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  18. MAYURA

    MAYURA New Member

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    While I do think that we should not have bowed before mughals, it was not that bad and acted as blessing in disguise.

    take the case of assam invasion when Ram Singh ensured that jehadis after the win do not indulge in loot of women and wealth.
     
  19. MAYURA

    MAYURA New Member

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    like those who found refuge in Hammirdeva of Ranathambore.
     
  20. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    That was also the case when Jai Singh and Jaswant Singh went into Deccan against Marathas, with Imperial (mix of Mughal & Rajput) armies.
    It halted the otherwise ruthless juggernaut, the systematic conversions etc at least wherever the Rajputs could exercise their influence.

    It is said that when Jaswant Singh died, Aurangzeb had rejoiced by saying "Darwza e Hind Kufra e Shikast' .. 'The door to defeat of Kafir India is open'.

    I have heard that Marathas had planned to have Rajputana as the retreat passage for their women should the war with Abdali end badly.
    Not sure of this one's accuracy though.
     
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