If India offers help to Pakistan: Pak finally accepts offer of aid from India

nrj

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Oh, India is under tremendous moral obligation to help Pakistan.

We are the regional hegemon and also one of the most powerful countries economically and militarily. We wish to be a permanent member of security council and also a developed superpower for we believe we are harbingers of peace and stability to the world. As a regional power soon to be a global power it is our responsibility to help the world and especially our next door neighbour and people (who 6 decades back were part of our own lands).

Our foreign policy has traditionally been based on morality over strategic interests. India was instrumental in starting NAM and SAARC to bring peace to the world and neighbourhood.
We also were one of the first and largest relief providers during the tsunami disaster, also carried out our largest overseas air relief operation during Chengdu earthquake in China. We have been instrumental in helping countries in our neighbourhood in times of crisis.

Disasters are again opportunities for decidedly hostile nations to shed historical baggage and come to aid of each other. (Turkey-Greece; US-Russia) IMO Govt of India is not helping out Pakistan because the govt expects to be rebuffed, but what about the people and NGOs ? This is an unhealthy trend for India and Indians, our culture, history tells us to be better than that and the people affected our neighbours, and co-inhabitants of our subcontinent.
I agree partly.

However, India's ambitions as regional power or superpower (lol) are just hollow at this point considering the internal domestic problems & urgency. Although it is also true that this fact has not stopped India in helping overseas & doing important relief operations for last 60 years.

But the case of Pakistan is different at this point of time. India has helped Pakistan in many forms before. Now Pak recognizes it or not is not important IMO. Honest help is never made in exchange of recognition. But what Pakistan has been doing is planting instability inside India directly/indirectly, exploding bombs, spreading terror, killing innocents who died of no reason at all. At some point this becomes intolerable. And today we are at that very point.

I won't compare China with Pakistan in terms of making judgments of hostility. China has stable government for decades with clear policy. US-Russia has been respectable rivals. Pak stands in no league with them. Pak is land of chaos. No stability, no control over armed forces, today they have prime minister next day army general taking over the same office.

Also India is not any surplus country. We are not a developed world. There are hundreds of other domestic priorities to be taken care of which needs our valuable resources. We don't have spare resources to help the back-stabbing, ill-willed, world-declared enemy i.e Pakistan. Lets help our unfortunate people first then we can think of playing a greater role with spare resources to help others.

I hold the sympathy for the innocent people affected by flood who can not get help from their Government. Likewise I also keep the wish to see my nation helping my needy fellow-countrymen first with the money & resources which belong to them. Let India's Global Humanitarian societies help them & assign other urgent tasks to GOI.


Anyways, the bold part above is the very fact & this issue does not need any more attention IMO.
 
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Energon

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For one, Singh is absolutely correct in pointing out that if the Indian establishment wants to be a "super power", "regional power" or whatever the current key phrase is, they're going to have to earn it through action.

I find most of the reasons against helping Pakistan in the current situation sophomoric and asinine. There are in fact many far more valid reasons to at least offer substantial help.

Let's for the time being leave the morality issue aside...
I don't know if most of you realize this, but when developed countries launch aid programs it's not just taking money out of the tax payer's kitty and mailing it to a hapless recipient. The assistance and aid operations actually assist their own industries and service sectors by serving as an economic stimulator. There may not be an outright "profit" in the commercial sense, but the overall benefits are highly worthwhile for donors. If this weren't the case developed nations or even China wouldn't invest in any of this.

India has the serious potential to advance quite a few privately operated sectors when it comes to disaster management. Microbial vaccines for instance are a standard requirement after floods (waterborne illnesses increase exponentially after floods). India has a strong private sector vaccine production base, some of whom are currently the largest suppliers to UN, WHO and other INGOs. However most of the production cycles are pre set. Investment in disaster management would help create the coveted ability to produce large quantities at a short notice, something most other industries around the world are not capable of doing.
I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the Chinese pharma industries have cashed in on virtually every bird/pig/chicken/klingon flu to build up these capabilities successfully. Their technologically superior Indian counterparts on the other hand are missing out.
Numerous specialized fields such as cold chain technology, mobile medical equipment, generic drugs, operational management and supportive information technology, rapid transportation, ship building etc etc. can be developed to cater toward disaster management, not just in the region but pretty much the world over. Not only do these industries add value to India's own economy but during the lull these new capabilities can be turned inward to alleviating indigenous problems of the similar nature which have so far gone unchallenged. The key of course is de centralization of the industries and effective monitoring.

The truth of the matter is that India's conceptual conflict with Pakistan itself is a rapidly changing phenomenon. For all practical purposes the classic sense of "us vs them" notion which is inculcated into every Indian and Pakistani child no longer holds true. The likelihood of "maha yudha" or any such nonsensical conflict w/ J-17 vs LCA or Al Khalid vs Arjun is sparse. Economics, technology and industrial capacity are now the battlefields where people's minds/imagination, not land capture or material damages are the key objectives defining "victory".

Let's for a second imagine a scenario where Indian companies had already developed a vast expertise in disaster management and had showed their mettle during various collaborative efforts in response to natural disasters around the world like tsunamis in the pacific, earthquakes in South America, droughts in Africa, floods in Bangladesh various Indian calamities etc. and this situation were to occur where a Pakistani military dictator demands all 'made in India' labels be taken off, or disallow Indian aid ships to enter Pak waters or what have you.. who do you think takes the hit? Or when the random mullahs at the local red mosque start sermonizing about rejecting Indian vaccines because they're secretly being designed to turn Muslim sperm into Hindu or some nonsense while they themselves are unable to do jack $hit about post flood polio and hepatitis outbreaks... who do you think loses?

Even now hundreds of millions of Pakistanis realize that neither their hallowed military, nor the government, or the mullahs are able to help them when the $hit really hits the fan. Unfortunately the closest substitute in this case are the Taliban, or LeT, or JuD or whatever their name is this week. And I'm sure we all know the after effects of that.

If ranbaxy, godrej, tata, infosys, Reliance etc. were to fill this vacuum there would be a paradigm shift; it would also be the best deterrent to organizations like the LeT, far better than "surgical strikes" anyways.

food for thought.
 

tarunraju

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We're just being artsy-fartsy armchair generals thinking that India must show righteousness and do what a "regional" leader should do, shower Pakistan with aid and relief which the Pakistani public will never be made aware of where it came from. That's just a ridiculous notion.

Pakistan does not see India as a regional power.

Putting on an angel's gown and giving them aid won't change their perception of India, not one bit. Not even in the eyes of the global community. They will just see this as a move by India to exploit Pakistan's position to put itself on a much higher pedestal (at least that's what Pakistan's diplomats will scream), and instead, Pakistan will end up unintended sympathy, without India getting the pat on the back.

We have our a very, very long way to go before rightfully calling ourselves a regional power, and giving Pakistan aid under the present circumstances is certainly not a step in that direction. Instead, it's something Pakistan will inevitably exploit. There is no "civil society that are good people governed by an evil leadership" in Pakistan. The country is just the way it is.

We would rather just keep quiet and handle the situation in Leh, get CWG over and done with, fix the rail lines in Konkan, among a countless other things.

Oh that's easy, Haitians don't export terror. Weed is as far as Haitian exports go.
 
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ajtr

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http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article566847.ece

After briefing heads of diplomatic missions based in Islamabad on the floods last week, Foreign Minister Makhdoom Shah Mahmood Qureshi took some of them to flood affected areas in South Punjab on Thursday.

The Indian High Commissioner was not invited to both these interfaces.

Above must be looked as that Indian aid is not welcomed by pakistan govt.So now that settles the matter.
 

ajtr

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Pakistan floods: an emergency for the West


Lest anyone under-estimate the scale of the disaster, all four of Pakistan's wars with India combined did not cause such damage.
Negotiating with gun to its own head...
It has become clear this week that, unless major aid is forthcoming immediately and international diplomatic effort is applied to improving Pakistan's relations with India, social and ethnic tensions will rise and there will be food riots. Large parts of the country that are now cut off will be taken over by the Pakistani Taliban and affiliated extremist groups, and governance will collapse. The risk is that Pakistan will become what many have long predicted – a failed state with nuclear weapons, although we are a long way off from that yet.
Its obvious.Punjab is pakistan ...pakistan is punjab.
Central Punjab – the country's richest region, where incomes and literacy are double those of other areas – has escaped the disaster.The resentment felt towards Punjab by ethnic groups in the smaller provinces is thus likely to increase.
Always happens....
Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa (KP), formerly the North Western Frontier Province, where both the Pakistani and Afghan Taliban are based, millions of people have lost their homes and are on the move – this just a few months after many of them had returned home after successful military offensives against militants in the Swat valley.
Across the province, hundreds of miles of electricity pylons and gas lines have been ripped out, power stations have been flooded, and at least half of the livestock and standing crops have been destroyed. All of this will dramatically loosen the state's control over outlying areas, in particular those bordering Afghanistan, which could be captured quickly by local Taliban.
Greatest lie...There is balochi genocide going on since 1947.Baloch resentment towards punjabi's is not some new phenomenon due to floods
Baloch separatists are already blaming the government for poor relief efforts and urging a stepped-up struggle for independence.That means the war in Afghanistan is about to become even more bloody. US and Nato efforts to secure southern Afghanistan – and new US troop deployments expected this month in eastern Afghanistan – will be affected, as more militants come across the border. The Taliban see the floods as a huge opportunity for recruitment in Pakistan, rather than a disaster.
ummah not caring......
Donations from the European Union, Nato countries and especially the Islamic world have been negligible, prompting international aid organisations such as Oxfam to complain of the lack of response.
This takes the cake blame india and then beg.....:emot112:
India has failed to respond to the crisis and there remains bitter animosity between the two countries, particularly because India blames the current uprising in Indian Kashmir on Pakistan – even though Indian commentators admit that it is more indigenous than Pakistan-instigated. ......the need to allow Indian relief goods, as well as cheaper food and construction materials, to enter Pakistan easily. International agencies would find it much simpler and cheaper to buy such goods from India rather than shipping them in from further afield.
 

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Yusuf

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That would not be a bad idea. Aid organizations BUY relief material from india and send it to pakistan. That way we make money too. Sorry just too hawkish when it comes to pakistan

But just looking at the reports, it looks like thwarted west is also not helping because of humanity's sake but to keep the terrorists from taking away hearts due to their relief work. In any case these people have already won the hearts there as the International aid is given to the govt of pakistan which is busy merry making all over the the desired intention of the aid not served. Already heard the JuD is already the leading relief supplier.
 

nitesh

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People are saying ehre that if we don't help pakistan we will not be regional power or super power or what ever like helping pakistan is the benchmark for it:emot15:
 

mayfair

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Are Saudis, Iranis not Pakistan's friends anymore?

By Muhammad Akram

LAHORE: Except Kuwait, Turkey and the UAE, Pakistan has failed to receive any aid for its flood victims from any other Islamic country. The three countries have offered $5 million, $269,183 and $20,027 respectively, so far. While China with $1,479,290 and Sri Lanka with $26,667 are the only neighbouring countries that have come to the country's aid.
....
The people of Pakistan, particularly flood victims, want to know what has happened to the rulers and people of Iran and Saudi Arabia, which have not expressed any intent, let alone offering anything in aid to their Pakistani brothers and sisters. The aid to Pakistan would not be for its rulers, if there existed any misgivings, but for the people who have yet to find means to survive, as a new flood of an almost equal intensity is about to hit various districts of Sindh and Punjab this weekend.
....
As far as neighbours such as India and Afghanistan are concerned, Pakistan can least expect from both, since none of the two had offered anything so far. As for India, which offered $500 million in aid during the 2005 Kashmir earthquake, the offer was refused by Pakistani authorities in the first place and whatever was allowed in was let to rot at security checkposts on the border.
....

From a Pakistani source. Does that answer any questions?
 

Yusuf

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Iran was never a good friend of Pakistan. It was on the other side of the ISI protege Taliban. They have other problems too.
Saudis, well its a rude wake up call for the Pakistanis. Its better that they realize their foreign policy including use of terror is now affecting everyone to the extent that people are not even helping during the time of human suffering due to natural calamity.
 

pankaj nema

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It is also donor fatigue.Other countries are tired of spoon feeding.As per pakistani newspapers ,Chinese leaders have said that Pakistan should be more self reliant

Pakistanis have been demanding Aid from Every possible source like IMF,WB, ADB, friendly countries like saudi, US,China ,UAE and Europe

But the results on the ground are poor ie very little change.All the aid is consumed in meeting trade deficits and the rest is lost in corruption.Now aid is demanded to prevent a Taliban takeover.
 

neo29

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The money that Pak receives from US as military aid is already getting siphoned under the watchful eye of the US by ISI to fund extremists. Surely this aid also will be siphoned by the ISI and India's aid if any given will surely used against us. Instead of giving them money for aid we rather give them some military hardware coz the end result will that only.

Besides our every money received, 10% goes to "You know who's" pocket
 

prateikf

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we must never help the wicked pakis. they deserve it. how can ever forget how they had brutally tortured our soldiers during kargil and how they had never released 56 Indian POW's long after the 1971 war. Pak must be wiped out from the earth's surface.
 

johnee

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one thing i dont get is why is everyone running after recognition here, fine pakistanis might not give the recognition where it is due and if they dont then it is upto them and their problem, but does that take away the fact that this is a massive humanitarian crisis, and as humans (if that is what we like to call ourselves) our first duty is to support them is which ever small way we can. no one is suggesting to dole out money, certainly not, but whats the harm in handing out a few precious life saving medicines, a tent house which could work as a mean of shelter, some food which could help a few starving souls, some clean water?

recognition amounts to looking for gains which does amount to politics in a way, probably this is not the right time to look for such gains, its people just like you and i who are suffering.
Ritesh, any help in this time will be routed through the jihadi network or the PA. They get the recognition in the eyes of the victims. This recognition leads to respect. This respect is used to recruit volunteers into the jihadi network or PA.

Instead, if pakistani victims realise that the world, particularly India, has helped them in their need of hour, then they would be much less inclined to attack the same country or countries.

Recognition is not for some grand political gains. But to simply educate the pakistanis that the world is not against them, not against muslims, not against pakistanis. But this simple message is not allowed to reach the victims as PA and its jihadi groups hijack the aid. And use the same material and cash to create and perpetuate terror using the card that muslims/pakistanis are under attack.
 

johnee

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People are saying ehre that if we don't help pakistan we will not be regional power or super power or what ever like helping pakistan is the benchmark for it:emot15:
Of course, when the same India sucks up and sits still after a massive provocation like 26/11, then India's status does not suffer...irony!!!
 

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Remember, last time when India sent help and aid to Pakistan, what happened to it.

During Pakistan's massive earthquake in October 2005, India sent three consignments of relief material like tents, blankets medicines etc. For the first time ever, IAF planes landed in Islamabad to deliver relief material.

But afterwards, officials reported that Pakistani authorities had ripped off `made in India' labels from relief material before distributing them, because it was easier to believe that India had not helped out during the earthquake. India had also made a cash contribution to Pakistan's relief efforts, but Pakistan never used it, which led to a feeling of rejection in the Indian side.


Nevertheless, India may have passed up on a unique diplomatic opportunity with Pakistan, even if the latter rejected India's overtures. Pakistan's calamity this time is several times worse than the 2005 earthquake. Earlier this year, India sent $5 million in aid to faraway Haiti.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...akistan/articleshow/6300981.cms#ixzz0wUVricIm
So, I think may be its useless to send AID to Pakistan by India unless it asks for.
 

SHASH2K2

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Remember, last time when India sent help and aid to Pakistan, what happened to it.



So, I think may be its useless to send AID to Pakistan by India unless it asks for.
They would prefer to eat grass but will not ask India for help.
ooops now there is no grass left due to flood .
What will they eat ? MUD
 

Daredevil

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They would prefer to eat grass but will not ask India for help.
ooops now there is no grass left due to flood .
What will they eat ? MUD
Now that you mentioned about eating grass, see this report

Survivors say they are starving as no government aid has reached them so far. "Floods destroyed everything in our village. And survivors are now suffering from skin diseases," Gul Zarina, 49, who is suffering from gastroenteritis, told The Express Tribune.

Speaking about her ordeal, Zarina said that they have been eating grass to stay alive as they have lost everything. "We cannot migrate to Mingora because Kabal is cut off from the rest of the country," she added.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/38507/outbreak-of-diseases-sets-alarm-bells-ringing/
 

anoop_mig25

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present military-jihad- elite setup in Pakistan doesn't allow India to be seen as friendly country in the eye of Pakistan pepole and specially now when Pakistan army is thinking that they are in better position then in past vis-india (in terms of stategic gains) plus civilian unrest in kashmir is begin seen by them as gos send opportunity so why theu would accept it

i think if nawaz sarif or president zardarie would have been powerful in mean if Pakistan political set up was more powerful then military setup then it would have been better for india
 

Daredevil

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Just in.....Aid to Pakistan from India

Aid assistance of USD 5 million for provision of relief material to flood victims in Pakistan

13/08/2010


Government of India has offered assistance of US$5 million for provision of relief material from India for the victims of the massive floods that have adversely affected Pakistan, causing widespread damage to life and property.

In a telephone conversation, Hon'ble External Affairs Minister Shri S.M. Krishna conveyed to His Excellency Shah Mahmood Qureshi, Foreign Minister of Pakistan this gesture of solidarity with the people of Pakistan, in their hour of need. External Affairs Minister, on behalf of the people and Government of India, also conveyed deepest sympathies and condolences to the people and Government of Pakistan, on this natural disaster.

New Delhi
August 13, 2010

Ministry of External Affairs, India
 

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