Ideology of kuldeep nayyar minded people

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by truthfull, May 10, 2010.

  1. truthfull

    truthfull Regular Member

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    I am starting this thread to make people aware about the indian conspiracy therists like arundhati roy fall in this category
    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect.../columnists/kuldip-nayar-lets-begin-again-750

    Eleven-year-old Devika has not yet reconciled to what happened to her on Nov 26, 2008. While waiting at a bus stop, she was hit by a bullet and lost her right leg.
    That gunman Ajmal Kasab has been found guilty and has been sentenced is a personal issue for her. She does not know the wider perspective.

    Her father Natwar Lal felt the ends of justice had been served when the only surviving man out of 10 terrorists, who came from Pakistan to attack Mumbai, was brought to book. His reaction more or less represents Indian opinion although some feel that the media-hyped trial was more a catharsis than the answer to the cry for justice. Many in India have taken the government to task for spending lakhs of rupees to get Kasab convicted. He was seen wielding his gun on television screens. New Delhi, however, did well to conduct the case methodically.

    Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshimade an irresponsible remark that his government would study the judgment and then make up its mind on Kasab’s conviction. Doubting the judiciary will be the beginning of a new chapter of suspicion between the two countries.

    After Kasab’s conviction, New Delhi expects Hafiz Saeed, the Jamaatud Dawa chief, who allegedly planned the Mumbai carnage, to be arrested and punished. Pakistan’s efforts are not considered adequate. Islamabad’s plea is that the evidence provided by India is too flimsy to convince the court. Since New Delhi insists it has given sufficient proof, it would be better if the evidence is made public for the people to judge.

    Unfortunately, the man who has been arrested for planting the bomb at Times Square in New York is from Pakistan. True, he is a citizen of the US. But people in Pakistan must take the case seriously and come out openly against militant organisations that brainwash the common man in the name of religion.

    The public is correct in voicing its criticism against the exoneration of two Indians also involved in the Kasab case. The judge is not to be blamed since he found the only witness “unreliable”. It is the police who failed to collect tangible evidence.

    There are sleeper cells in India and the Taliban have their followers in this country. They are active and it is quite possible that the collaborators in the Mumbai attack were from among the Indian Taliban. They have not been yet traced. But they are there.

    In fact, India has discovered to its horror that there is a network of Hindu Taliban as well. They are connected to the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and said to be responsible for the bomb blasts at Ajmer Dargah (2007), Makkah Masjid in Hyderabad (2007), Malegaon (2008) and Goa (2009).

    The connection of a BJP-run state government has also come to light. Rajasthan home minister Shanti Dhariwal has alleged that the state police under former chief minister Vasundhara Raje of the BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party) kept the involvement of Hindutva outfits under wraps.

    Authoritative sources at New Delhi suspect that Madhya Pradesh, where the BJP government is in power, has become a safe sanctuary for the Hindu outfits. Top police official Hemant Karkare is alleged to have been eliminated by Hindu extremists when he collected certain leads on the involvement of Hindu organisations in attacks across the country. Even the attack on the Samjotha Express (2007) is considered the handiwork of Hindu terrorists.

    That Pakistan is itself in the midst of terrorism, suffering a blast here and an attack there, is worrisome for India, particularly when there is genuine fear that terrorism may pour into the country through the Wagah border. The Taliban have said that India was their real target. Therefore, Islamabad must take into account the point made by New Delhi that terrorists come from Pakistan and do not go from India to Pakistan.

    This perception of India was reportedly the main topic of discussion when Prime Minister Manmohan Singh met Prime Minister Yousuf Gilani in Bhutan. New Delhi has Islamabad’s assurance that it would not allow Pakistani soil to be used by terrorists to launch attacks against India. The good news is that foreign secretaries of both countries are expected to pick up the thread.

    It is heartening to note that the Indian media has not mentioned the forthcoming talks with Pakistan while singling out its establishment for having “planned and executed” the attack on Mumbai. It becomes incumbent on civil society in both countries to put pressure on their governments to resume the talks quickly. Qureshi has rightly said it hardly matters what nomenclature is given to the talks; it is the spirit that is important. One thing the two sides must resolve is that they will not discontinue talks, however deep their differences.

    The result will depend on the groundswell of public opinion. People-to-people contact should go beyond the cliché it has become. It should really mean the easing of difficulties that people from both countries encounter when they cross the border. Intelligence agencies will have to be reined in so that they do not question every traveller.

    High commissions on both sides should not have bureaucrats with a fixed mindset. New Delhi which considers itself more liberal than Islamabad is insistent that students and faculty coming from Pakistan to the South Asia University should daily report to the police and not travel beyond the three cities mentioned in their visa.

    I know that most people in India and Pakistan are prisoners of the past. They have a deep, entrenched mistrust against each other. They tend to see even positive steps in a negative manner. The media makes a mountain out of a molehill. The Bhutan summit asked all the countries in South Asia to come closer. The prime ministers of India and Pakistan have taken the lead by deciding to sit across the table. This demands eschewing mistrust and overcoming past grievances. It may be tough. But let’s begin again.

    The writer is a senior journalist based in Delhi.
     
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  3. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    Land of the GODS - "Dev Bhomi".
    The real Indian Taliban are the naxals/Maoists, who have a similar agenda to that of the Taliban in afpak.

    Both want to take over the state, and talk of revolution.
    Both don’t believe in parliamentary democracy.
    Both have taken to arms to make their demands meet.
    Both are extreme form of ideologies, one extreme right the other extreme left.
    Both have sympathizers in main stream media who help create sympathy for their terror acts.

    But a secular India which claims to be more enlightened than the orthodox Islamic Pakistan finds it hard to recognize the problem since the so-called intellectuals who have crowded the main stream media have a left leaning who associate with such concepts of revolutions wont let an anti-maoist wave sweep the country. On the contrary Pakistan does realize the problem their country faces and they are going all out to confront it, though it’s another story that they still cant see the evil in and the threat posed by the good Taliban in the long run which will again one day come to haunt them.

    I am really not interested in individuals since if the system is lacking then there will be individuals who will make use of the weakness, the more important thing is to strengthen the system, and if that can be done then individuals really do not matter, and they will be isolated with the passage of time, and the soon enough phased out.
     
  4. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    He is nothing but WKK(wagha kandle kisser) an avowed leftist suffering from Stockholm syndrome.So he has so much love for pakistan and hence on majority of occassion he end up popularising zahid hamid like theory as he did in above article.


    Another reason is that he has been driven out of pakistan punjab and but he still has love for it thats why on every midnight of 14th-15 aug you can find him at wagha lighting candles. Moreover you can always find the effect of pakistani soil in him when he propagates conspiracy theories the so called hindu-taliban involvement in samjhouta express blasts and killing of hemant karkare on the night of 26/11.Regarding samjouta Kuldip naya never cared to use google just he got carried away with the midea witch hunt during the col.purohit case when hemant karkare and media was in in its all over jelousness were lining everything related to muslim places blast with him so here is recent news regarding samjhouta express happening.



    But then kuldip nayar ,JAWED NAQVI, Teesta Setalvad ,Arundhati roy are of some typical breed of yellow journalists and NGO's whoes day never ended without mentioning hindu taliban/brahamns /dalits etc.even if it not related to the topic of the news article they are writing .just for example take theis recent column of our dear JAWED NAQVI saheb.irrespective of of he is writing on the judgement dilivered on kasab case you sure find brahmins. ...

     
  5. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    RT,
    The so called liberal activist in india are closet Maoist like Arundati roy.They are our leftist- liberals(like those of democrats of usa and labour of UK).Both fight tooth-n-nail for the human-rights of leftist terrorist but keep mum on the terror acts by maoist.But funny thing is they fight for the human rights of the terrorist who attack other countries but their own countries are attacked they go invade afghanistan/iraq.The leftist intellectuals or even the rightist one like those ones like taliban are mere tool for the so called democratic west to advance it agenda in other countries.You can always find them feeding from one another.Though leftists make out show that they hate/oppose western imperialism but infact they help west to de-stablize the country.
     
  6. truthfull

    truthfull Regular Member

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    Yes these leftist are weakoning our country by their view points ,and how media is giving so much importance to them ,even sometime our prime minister blame it on hindutva groups ,and investigation leads to pak.Even days before a leader of national party said that there should be separate cell in mha for hindutva terrorist.what a mess in system.
     
  7. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Kuldeep Nayyar is a perfectly good man, his reputation as a journalist is unparalleled, he is an important part of our civil society and in a democracy everyone is entitled to their views.
    By the way he is the one who forced people like Yasin Malik etc to lay down their weapons, and use democratic means as a form of struggle.
     
  8. truthfull

    truthfull Regular Member

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    i know he is great journalist but see his view points on relations with pakistan .
     
  9. truthfull

    truthfull Regular Member

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  10. truthfull

    truthfull Regular Member

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  11. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    A perfect article on Kuldip nayar type Wagah candle-holders

    The banality of evil


    In the aftermath of the Ajmal Kasab [ Images ] trial and the failed bomb attack in New York, the impartial observer would find it hard to conclude that Pakistanis were mild, inoffensive people. But in fact there are a number of people -- apart from the professional Wagah candle-holders -- who cannot believe that this kind of horror could come from the kind of Pakistanis they know -- PLUs (people like us), urbane, sophisticated, great hosts and dinner companions.
    There is, of course, the fallacy of rapid generalisation: Every Pakistani is not like the people you know, who are likely to be the world-traveling sort. There are many dirt-poor, uneducated people who have been brainwashed with strange notions of what India [ Images ]ns are like and what India is like. Given high population growth and a fairly stagnant economy, the number of these 'Bottom-of-the-Pyramid' people is much larger than those at the top of the pyramid, the 22 ruling feudal families who own the place.

    But apart from the logical fallacy, there is also a more subtle issue, that of how easily evil can take over even perfectly normal, well-adjusted people. It turns out you don't have to be a sociopath to do the most horrifying things: Your random neighbours, like the kindly old man down the street, the kid who drops off the newspaper, the old lady who is full of religious zeal -- any and all of them can turn into monsters under the appropriate circumstances.

    This was demonstrated in Cambodia, when under the Khmer Rouge, perfectly ordinary people became mass killers. I have been to the Tuol Sleng prison and interrogation centre in the middle of Phnom Penh, where thousands of people were tortured, and confessions extracted from them. They were photographed and meticulous dossiers prepared about each of them. They were then taken to the Killing Fields on the outskirts of town and dispatched with a blow to the back of the head with a spade.

    But what is most amazing about Tuol Sleng is that it was formerly a school in the middle of a residential neighbourhood! It still looks like an inoffensive school from outside, although inside it is the Genocide Museum, with the interrogation cells left as they were, harrowing paintings of inhuman torture, and row after row of black and white photographs of those who were about to die, including some Indians and other foreigners.

    It is a metaphor for the banality and very ordinariness of evil. The Khmer Rouge were the greatest mass-murderers in the recent past, killing some 15 per cent of their compatriots.

    Ordinary Cambodians -- farmers, artisans, bicycle-repairers, fishermen -- were instruments of civilisational suicide. Similarly, perfectly normal Hutus went on the warpath in Rwanda against embattled Tutsis, attempting genocide. Ordinary Germans did the bidding of the Nazis; ordinary Europeans participated in an orgy of violence on innocent people during the horrifying Inquisition, dispatching thousands, especially women, in the most appalling ways.

    And so with the Pakistanis. The young men of the Lashkar-e-Tayiba [ Images ] and other terrorist outfits were not monsters to begin with: They were turned into what they are quite deliberately -- they have been manufactured by a consciously-created system where they have no choice but to become monsters.

    I was reminded of all this when I was listening to an archived podcast from 2007 of an interview with Philip Zimbardo, a retired professor from Stanford, whose celebrated 'Stanford Prison Experiment' of 1971 was a startling practical demonstration of how evil is engendered.

    In 2006, Zimbardo wrote a new book, The Lucifer Effect because he was struck by similarities between the Abu Ghraib prison scandal in Iraq and the Stanford experiment.

    The experiment was simple: Zimbardo set up a simulated prison in the basement of one of Stanford's buildings, and recruited 24 normal male college students for a two-week study of the behaviour of prison guards and prisoners. The students were randomly assigned to either role and given uniforms or prison smocks to wear, but no specific instructions on behaviour except that there must be no physical contact. Zimbardo himself acted as both 'jail superindendent' and research leader.

    The results were startling: Within 36 hours, the 'guards' started misbehaving, exerting their power over the 'prisoners'. One of the prisoners had a nervous breakdown. Within three days, the guards were exhibiting brutal, sadistic behaviour, and the prisoners were increasingly humiliated and oppressed. Several other prisoners also had nervous breakdowns. On the night of day five, sexual torture began: The prisoners were made to expose themselves, and to simulate sodomy with each other.

    On the sixth day, a shaken Zimbardo abandoned the experiment, which had been slated to run for two weeks. He was shocked to realise that certain dangerous boundaries were being crossed, and that some of the participants might end up with permanent psychological damage.

    The fact that perfectly normal, intelligent college students -- they had been screened for any abnormality -- could so easily be turned into sadistic monsters is astonishing. Apparently the situation had gotten the better of them: Perhaps the normal human condition is indeed the Hobbesian 'nasty, brutish and short'. Maybe Lord of the Flies, the book about a group of boys abandoned on an island evolving into a dictatorial society, is all too true.

    Perhaps the Law of the Jungle is indeed the right metaphor, much as we like to think of ourselves as civilised beyond fang and claw and might-is-right.

    In a related study, the Milgram Experiment at Yale analysed the willingness of volunteers to administer electric shocks to unseen victims based on orders from authority figures. It turned out that -- with no gender differences -- people were quite willing to torture people whom they had never met. (The shocks were simulated, and so were the recorded screams of the recipients, but the subjects didn't know that.)

    Zimbardo believes that it is not the individual's own inherent tendencies, but the social situation around them that drives bad behaviour. That can help us understand the pathology of the Pakistani situation. These young men have been told for such a long time that Indians and Hindus are evil and monstrous that they have internalised it.

    It is the environment that addles them. Therefore, expending a lot of effort on the arrest and prosecution of individual terrorists is not going to have a major impact, because they are expendable -- there are many waiting in line, ready to step into their shoes.

    In that sense, it is immaterial what happens to Ajmal Kasab -- he is simply cannon fodder, dispensable.

    It is the system that is psychotic, and it is so by intent. That is why Pakistan refuses steadfastedly to move against those who have created the system: For instance, Mohammad Saeed of the Jamaat-ul Dawa (the current name of the Lashkar-e-Tayiba). The Pakistanis have refused again and again to prosecute Saeed, just as they refuse to extradite Dawood Ibrahim [ Images ]. These are strategic assets for the ISI. People like Hamid Gul, ex-ISI director-general, have articulated the grim calculus of this perspective.

    The system in Pakistan was put in place by General Zia-ul Haq, who fundamentalised education, the army, and the rest of society (it may be remembered that Zia in effect banned the use of the 'Hindu' sari, and encouraged the 'Pakistani' salwar-kameez). The textbooks were re-written to eulogise Central Asian invaders.

    History begins with the Arab invasion of Sind in 712 CE. The word 'Hindu' is always preceded by 'cunning baniya'. The idea that a single Mohammedan soldier is worth ten Hindus in valour was put about, notwithstanding considerable evidence to the contrary.

    American psychologist Sam Keen suggested in Faces of the Enemy that a major part of warfare lies in dehumanising the enemy. Every nation has created extraordinary propaganda against its enemies: By internalising this, young soldiers are able to kill other young men without compunction, because they believe the enemy are sub-human monsters intent on raping 'our' women, destroying 'our' nation, and so on. The book includes hundreds of posters, cartoons and other material from 20th century propaganda, which Keen calls the 'archetype of the hostile imagination'.

    Surely, there is Indian propaganda against Pakistan; however, it is on a secular plane, and does not target Pakistanis based on religion. In fact, average Mohammedans are better off in India as compared to anywhere else in the world, including, and especially Pakistan, where only the feudal upper classes (castes) live well.

    But that is not what Pakistanis believe. In encounters with middle-class Pakistanis in America and on the Internet, I have heard how glad they are that there is a homeland for subcontinental Mohammedans who would otherwise have been oppressed by Hindus. They are silent, however, when I point out that there are, in fact, two homelands, and how the one homeland couldn't keep half of its inhabitants happy and started a genocidal war with them.

    This incomprehension about India was seen in the transcripts of the conversations by the 26/11 terrorists with their handlers in Pakistan: The terrorists were obviously confused that India was not a whole lot like what they had been brainwashed into believing.

    Thus, it is the environment, of radicalisation and mind-games, that is creating a cadre of evil-doers. Any amount of 'talks' and 'goodwill gestures' and 'walking the extra mile' is unlikely to change the situation unless the hate-mongering institutions with a monomanical jihadi agenda are dismantled. So long as India cannot get Pakistan to do this, there will be an endless supply of cannon fodder.

    There is another issue -- terrorism has now become a job, and quite a lucrative one at that. Zimbardo is of the opinion that a lot of the brutality in the Stanford Experiment and at Abu Ghraib happened because of simple boredom, especially at night, when the guards had nothing better to do and wanted some entertainment -- perhaps the ultimate in the banality of evil.

    In the case of the Pakistanis, and, alas, in the case of a number of home-grown terrorists in India, terrorism has now become an easy and attractive job, with perks like foreign trips (to Pakistan via Dubai [ Images ] to throw people off the scent), cash (including counterfeit Indian rupees shipped in container-loads), women (who will dare say 'no' to an AK-47?) and so on. For an ill-educated youth with poor prospects, this must be like manna from heaven.

    Thus, the cognitive dissonance between the 'they are just like us' ordinary citizens of Pakistan and the ruthless killers is a matter of their environment. Unless it is cleaned up, and the godfathers of the system like Hamid Gul, Hafiz Saeed [ Images ] and Dawood Ibrahim forced to stand down, India -- and (note to President Obama [ Images ]) the West -- will continue to face evil and bleed.

    It is not the individuals, but the system of propaganda and inducement of hatred that is to blame. And that suits the Pakistani establishment just fine: It sustains their failing State.
     
  12. truthfull

    truthfull Regular Member

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