IAI Unveils a UHF Radar that tracks Stealth Jets!!!!!

Discussion in 'Military Aviation' started by Shirman, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. Shirman

    Shirman Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    395
    Location:
    Siyasat-e-Hind
    Courtesy Defence Update
    Link :- http://defense-update.com/20150607_ultra_radar.html#.VXV3q1IprKs

    The basic ULTRA module, designated ULTRA-C1, comprises a single AESA cluster. The ULTRA C-22 packs 11 stacks of two modules each, measuring 10 by 30 meters. It is a strategic system for the detection and tracking of ballistic missiles and space objects at very long ranges.
    [​IMG]
    (IAI) is unveiling an advanced, UHF, Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar at the Paris Air Show. It is designed to search, detect and track ‘air breathing targets,’ including low-observable (stealth) aircraft, missiles, UAVs and ballistic missile targets at very long range, providing operating early warning. The new radar, which has already become operational with an unspecified customer, is part of the new ULTRA family of UHF radars developed by IAI’s ELTA Systems Group and subsidiary. “Ballistic missiles present a significant global threat to nations,” explained Mr. Nissim Hadas, IAI Executive VP & ELTA President. “We note increasing requirements world-wide for early warning radars, in order to extend the currently available Air Situation Picture and allow commanders and decision makers the valuable extra time for making informed and educated decisions concerning necessary defensive measures.”

    The ULTRA (ELM2090) often operates as an early warning asset, supplementing other radars, such as the Super Green Pine (ELM2080S) and the Multi-Mission Radar (ELM2084), providing increased early warning of all types of threats, including stealth aircraft and unmanned aerial systems (UAS) well beyond the range of existing sensors. Once such targets are detected, tracks can be transferred to other assets providing target acquisition and fire control.

    The basic module, designated ULTRA-C1, comprises a single AESA cluster measuring 3×3 meters. It is mounted on a rotating pedestal covering 360 degrees. ULTRA C-1 is configured as a relocateable system designed to provide an autonomous search and detection capability at a range of up to 500km for a typical fighter aircraft.

    “We note increasing requirements world-wide for early warning radars”

    Another variant is ULTRA-C6, which comprises six clusters (three stacks of two units). It is designed to provide early warning, at long ranges, of satellites, ballistic missiles and other airborne targets, while the ULTRA C-22 (a 22-cluster configuration packing 11 stacks of two modules and measuring 10 by 30 meters) is a strategic system for the detection and tracking of ballistic missiles and space objects at very long ranges.

    Both C-6 and C-22 are based in fixed sites but can be aimed at specific sectors, using trainable mounts to point the entire array toward an area with coverage of 320 degrees. These radars are employed primarily for long-range early warning against missile attacks, or for space debris monitoring and surveillance. Other cluster configurations are possible to meet specific customer requirements.

    The ULTRA radars, already operationally proven, use a modular, common UHF-band cluster architecture capable of wide-angle electronic scanning in both elevation and azimuth. They can be used as autonomous search radars, supporting all defence layers: Air Defence Surveillance for medium ranges, Early Warning for long ranges, and strategic coverage for very long ranges.
     
    A chauhan and Kharavela like this.
  2.  
  3. Shirman

    Shirman Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    395
    Location:
    Siyasat-e-Hind
    ^^^^^^^^ I think Israelis made their own version of Nebo M radar set.....while Nebo M has VHF (metric) to L-band (decametric) and S-band (centimetric) ie three radar per Set/ Unit compare to that Israelis also have 3 band multi frequency ie they have Ultra UHF (El/m 2090) plus MMR (el/m2084) S band and finally Green Pine / Sword fish which i think operates in L band frequency......
     
    Screambowl likes this.
  4. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,871
    Likes Received:
    1,427
    Looks like Israel is calling India's cheque book and if it works as advertised I wouldn't mind if India answers the call. :tongue:
     
    A chauhan and Mikesingh like this.
  5. Chris Jude

    Chris Jude Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    20
    India already answered the call, and that unspecified customer could be India.
     
  6. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    1,340
    We need this, pronto!!! :drool:
     
  7. Gessler

    Gessler Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    1,389
    Location:
    Vizag, India
    Relax guys. Any VHF/UHF radar has inherent counter stealth features. There's nothing special about them, it's just that stealth aircraft of today are basically designed to defeat airborne fire control radars used by fighters, which are all in the X-band.

    As a result, the angled surfaces on these planes are so designed to deflect radio waves of this certain frequency-range with greatest efficiency.

    As the spectrum of scanning widens, efficiency of the shaping decreases.

    The thing with these newer radars is that they incorporate AESA and other new technologies which increases their efficiency.
     
    A chauhan likes this.
  8. hardip

    hardip Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2015
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    183

    No Doubt...

    But u think also . that.. isreali technology is best for india..
    in past( kargil war) and future ( against mostly China..)..

    yes.. india is the biggest military market for Isreali company..
    the bitter truth is also.. that.. we have not eble to produce any kind of military technology which provides by Isreal..to india..

    Respect Our Friend County..
     
  9. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    7,078
    Likes Received:
    7,610
    Location:
    21°N 78°E / 21°N 78°E
    I think China has also developed anti stealth technology. Is India working on that?
     
  10. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,663
    Likes Received:
    17,158
    Location:
    EST, USA
    Long wavelength was always known to have a greater ability to beat stealth. How would short wavelength (very high frequency) beat stealth?

    Can someone please give a technical explanation?
     
  11. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    7,078
    Likes Received:
    7,610
    Location:
    21°N 78°E / 21°N 78°E
    Reasons of stealth of a stealth fighter:
    1. Low RADAR cross section so a lot of radio waves miss it.
    2. RADAR absorbing material which absorbs a lot of radio waves. So, insufficient number of radio waves get back to detector to tell proper location of the target.
    3. Aircrafts aerodynamic design sometimes spills rays in many directions.
    .
    Let's simplify it:
    Wavelength means distance between two consecutive particles (photons for RADAR).
    Frequency means number of particles/disturbances passing through a particular point in given interval of time.
    Simply, frequency is proportional to 1/wavelength.
    Or in simple calculation:

    Frequency=
    2.997925× (10 raised to the power 8)m
    ____________________________________
    Wavelength




    More frequency and less wavelength means, there are more number of particles/disturbances in per pack of energy.
    RADAR emits radio waves which are reflected by target back to the detector.
    Now, your question:
    How high frequency is a stealth killer:
    High Frequency fills the gap and detects every part of plane properly. So, effect of low cross section is neutralized.
    More waves hit plane in a short interval of time, so a comparatively large number of rays are reflected back as material doesn't posses capability to absorb them all.
    Again more number of waves means plane can't divert all of them. A significant number will be reflected back enough to detect that plane.


    Moreover for knowledge of stealth fighters:
    Our HAL AMCA(design) is stealthier than Russian PAK FA but slightly behind in direct combat capabilities.
     
  12. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    999
    Err..... I think you got it wrong. High frequency is not a stealth killer, in fact its just the opposite. Low frequency is a stealth killer. You see lower the frequency, higher the wave length and further the wave would travel. This is how L band ground based radar works. But higher the frequency, the wave length would be shorter and the wave would travel short distance. This is the working principle of X band radar.

    This higher frequency does help us to paint the image of any approaching plane in RADAR and that is the reason why X band radar with high frequency is used in targeting whereas L band radar with low frequency is used in detecting over long ranges.

    As far as question of @pmaitra is concerned, I am too wondering a lot about it.
     
  13. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    7,078
    Likes Received:
    7,610
    Location:
    21°N 78°E / 21°N 78°E
    Nope, you got it wrong.
    Wave may travel short distance but as I explained before:
    number of waves reaching target will be more .
    High Frequency is a stealth killer because it can cover all parts of target and get reflected properly.
    You have nothing to do with how much distance wave travels, you must care about how much waves travel that distance.
    Because stealth planes have low cross section, low frequency waves will miss them but high frequency waves being denser will definitely hit them.
    This is the simple principal applied her . And you can trust me. I'm a part time tutor of Physics. I know about it. And can tell you for your understanding as many times you want.
    @pmaitra
    @Chinmoy
    Nobody, needs to wonder. A simple logic is applied here. Higher frequency means higher number of waves released decreasing the probability of missing stealth design plane. It's simple. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
  14. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    999
    Actually all the stealth tech of today does work in high frequency only i.e X band. High frequency doesn't mean high number of wave, it means the oscillation a particle undergoes. The higher the particle would oscillate or travel up and down in Z axis (as per diagram) the higher would be its frequency and lower would be its wavelength. Onde_electromagnetique.svg.png
    Please refer these following inks for better understanding.
    http://www.radartutorial.eu/07.waves/Waves and Frequency Ranges.en.html
    http://www.everythingweather.com/weather-radar/bands.shtml
     
  15. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    7,078
    Likes Received:
    7,610
    Location:
    21°N 78°E / 21°N 78°E
    Agree but my still arises. It's oscillation or disturbance but my point still arises.
    Higher number of oscillation means,
    Particle will travel distance at a greater speed.That means:
    If you pick up a component of distance, there will more number of particles there..
    There will be increased gap(wavelength) between them.
    Result:
    Beam becomes desnser.
    Now, A stealth fighter is specially made thin so that many of rays would miss it and would go above or below it..
    High Frequencies (that even from a 3D RADAR) are comparatively carrying more disturbances so probability is increased.
     
  16. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,663
    Likes Received:
    17,158
    Location:
    EST, USA
    Low frequency refracts less. That is why, red is the colour of stop signs and tail lamps.

    High frequency means higher number of crests and troughs in a given time period, while low frequency means lower number of crests and troughs in a given time period. High frequency does not mean more particles.

    Now, I am not saying this particular VHF radar will not do what it claims it can do. I am still not getting how VHF can detect a stealth plane.

    I am reading the posts. Keep posting. I will add content if I find some.
     
    Indx TechStyle likes this.
  17. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    999
    You seem to be really confusing things here. Its known fact that Frequency and Wavelength are inversely proportional to each other.
    http://hubblesite.org/reference_desk/faq/answer.php.id=72&cat=light

    Lets consider that you are standing in a corridor and want to move a ball from point A to B. But the catch is, you have to move it by bouncing it in between two walls. Now there are two ways you could do it.
    Fig 1.jpg
    Fig 2.jpg
    Now in first fig, in moving from point A to B the ball is bouncing rapidly in between X and Y wall. Means its frequency is high and as a result its wavelength is high. In raw we could say that due to high frequency it reached point B after 4 wavelength. But in the next fig, while moving from A to B the ball covered the same distance in 1 wavelength due to low frequency. This is just a crude example :). But in the same manner, when we are saying that the frequency of an wave is 10MHz it doesn't mean that there are 10 wave of 1 MHz each in it. Its the unit of per wave.

    @pmaitra , I don't know how much true I am, but in my opinion, High Frequency wave carries more energy for a short distance, whereas Low Frequency wave carries the same energy for a longer distance. Now in stealth planes, instead of the regular curve body they sport plane and angular structure. Now these serve half of their purpose of refracting the high energy waves instead of reflecting it back. It could be compared with Brett Lee bowling at you in 22 yards pitch. You don't need power to hit him for a boundary, instead you could use the power in the ball to angle it towards any boundary section away from bowler. But if you double the pitch length to 44 yards, then merely angling the ball towards boundary would not solve your problem. You would have to hit it.

    Moreover its a known fact that while getting reflected from a body, RADAR waves does loose most of its transmitting power. It may be the reason why low frequency waves does travel back more effectively then a high frequency wave.

    In short high frequency wave does get easily refracted due to its high energy, whereas low frequency wave don't show this tendency due to its low energy and instead of getting refracted, much of it reflects back. It's my theory, but I would love to hear the exact reason from any expert on this. Kindly tag anyone here who could provide a better insight on this.
     
  18. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    7,078
    Likes Received:
    7,610
    Location:
    21°N 78°E / 21°N 78°E
    I think you didn't understand what I'm saying.

    Throwing a small number of waves (higher wavelength) does not kill any kind of stealth.
    You have to make sure that those hit the target.
    And now high frequency and low wavelength increase the probability of hitting the plane because now you have more number of disturbances going through.

    That's the whole concept of stealth.
    And now you said:
    Low frequency goes to longer range.
    Long has nothing to do with stealth. Seriously, tell me, how rays detect plane just going to longer range. o_O
    also,
    Both us have problem:
    You say, high wavelength and low frequency will reach longer range. but high frequency can't.
    I say, high frequency and low wavelength will have more coverage to kill stealth of nearby but low frequency can't do so.

    @pmaitra Problem solved!! :D
    We need a RADAR which can reach longer ranges(as @Chinmoy said)
    And can cover every part of stealth plane in three dimensions ( as I said).

    @Chinmoy this RADAR must have plus points of your and mine.
    It must reach longer ranges(as you said) but must have high frequency to detect plane (as I said).
    Now, understood why anti stealth is a miracle.
     
  19. Agnostic_Indian

    Agnostic_Indian Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2010
    Messages:
    930
    Likes Received:
    241
    Location:
    Kerala
  20. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    999
    I understood what you meant. As per you High frequency wave like X band, does fire more wave say per second then a low frequency wave like L band does in same amount of time. Correct me if I am wrong. But technically both a L band and X band radar does fire same amount of wave in a given time. The only difference is there in receiving those waves back from target. Its a known fact that RADAR waves reflecting back from a body does loose most of its strength when it reach back to its receiver.
    Now X band is used by modern fighters to track and tag its target and same is being used by almost all AAM's now a days wit active radar seeker. So what engineers now a days is trying to do is to beat this High Frequency Low Wavelength RADAR waves from reaching its receiver. I've already describe how you could do that by simply refracting the waves instead of reflecting them back by angular body structure instead of the contemporary tubular structure of other planes. Now you are partly right in saying that High Frequency X band does beat stealth with huge number of disturbances. But these number of disturbances at the time of transmitting is same for X band and L band. The only difference is when you start receiving them.

    Now as @pmaitra has asked that why stealth doesn't work in Long Wavelength or why it has more capability to beat stealth then the short wavelength one. So one logical explanation which I came across is due to the energy carried by the waves when they reflect back from the surface. Here is one interesting read about it.

    http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/earth-scienc...e-imagery-products/educational-resources/9355

    May be @gadeshi and @Gessler could also help a bit on it.
     
    pmaitra and Indx TechStyle like this.
  21. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    999

Share This Page