All the evidence proves it's a Israeli radar:-
Your wrong, Wärtsila 16V32 Made in Finland. Link.>>>>> DNV Exchange - STENA CARRON - Machinery Summary
Yup Arcelor-Mittal steal company is Indian owned.North East France from Usinor now known as ArcelorMittal. So you have a few Browning machine guns and COTS Nav radar bought outside the country... oh no! Mistral is foreign made!!
Your correction is much appreciated. The Rafale desperately needs foreign customers and particularly Indian MMRCA.
No but they funded the program without which France would be hugely burdened, if it went alone.
AESA radar with 20MW power? unthinkable!!! for a range of 300+km 20KW should be good enough p2p sahab?
pfft...
Do you bother to read what you post? Whose ship is the Stena Carron? Eurocopter HQ is in Provence France along with its main production facilities making French helicopters. Deutschland GmbH makes their own helicopters. It isn't a JV, it is a holding company hence the name Eurocopter Holding SA.
Oh no... Mistral uses COTS!! What are we to do?!?
On no... Mistral has COTS cruise ship thrusters! What are we to do?!?
Its a commercial navigation radar... more COTS. They are bought because they are proven at cheap prices. That is the whole point of buying COTS, to save money. If it isn't listed as a defence product, it doesn't go into the category of defence imports.Sensors and processing systems: DRBN-38A Decca Bridgemaster E250 navigation radar. Appraently they bought it from Britian because France does not make anything that is better than this!!
Link>>>Radar Systems - Bridgemaster E ATA and ARPA
You are continuing with the Italian Horizon. The French Horizons run on 2 diesel SEMT Pielstick PA6 STC 12. Pielstick is a French marine engine manufacturer. The secondary radars are made by Selex, the main AEW radar is made by Thales, a French company.
France doesn't use the Otomat.
Nope... it is a product of Eurosam which is a JV between France and Italy. 33% Thales, 33% MBDA France and 33% MBDA Italy. France has controlling stake at 66.6% which is why the British curse it as the French missile. British participation is only integration and testing of the system for Type 45s. They got out of its development when they left the future destroyer project.
A couple COTS radars, a gun mount, bow thrusters... it is hardly a significant value of our ships. Being made in France by a foreign owned subsidiary is not a concern, it is encouraged when PRIVITISATION lowers cost... so does using civilian COTS equipment when applicable.There is whole lot of other JV and Foreign owned subsidiary companies contributing on French Ships, which is almost on par with Indian built Ships! You dont need to take a dig at Indian projects anymore now that your French programs show a rash of Foreign Suppliers and JVs. Indian ships could be more Indian because atleast ESSAR steel is completely Indian.
It is Indian owned, it wasn't when the first two Mistrals came out. The steel for French ships comes from steel mills in France, the yard is only 50km from the smelter.Yup Arcelor-Mittal steal company is Indian owned.
UAE didn't fund Leclerc development.
What is with such a nonsense post? Everyone knows France has the most protectionist procurement policy next to Russia, even more so than the US. You put COTS under military sales when it is not. Half of your information is wrong to begin with. That Exocet remark takes the cake. Comparing Indian domestic sales to French has to be the most absurd argument of the day. Quit before you fall off the map.Your wrong, Wärtsila 16V32 Made in Finland. Link.>>>>> DNV Exchange - STENA CARRON - Machinery Summary
Mistral Carries the EADS-Eurocopter(major JV).
The Mistral Class and Surcouf Class is fitted with the DCN Senit 8 SENIT combat management system (France), Command information systems - Maritime.
Tonnerre (L9014)
Lets look at that DCN Senti-8 closely, It has the Hewlett-Packard PA-RISC processors which is made in USA, now you blame DRDO for requesting processors from Israel?
Link.>>SENIT combat management system (France) - Jane's C4I Systems
Propulsion: Mermaid azimuth thrusters. Made by Rolls Royce, Britian.
Link>>>Podded propulsors - Rolls-Royce
Sensors and processing systems: DRBN-38A Decca Bridgemaster E250 navigation radar. Appraently they bought it from Britian because France does not make anything that is better than this!!
Link>>>Radar Systems - Bridgemaster E ATA and ARPA
Lets continue and see the rest of your Ships shall we.?
Horizon class frigate
Censor EMPAR: Selex S1850M air and surface search radar,
Selex RASS surface search radar,
Selex SPN 753(V)4 navigation radar(Made in Italy)
Propulsion: General Electric LM2500 or Avio Gas Turbines(Italy)
Missiles: Exocet (JV with Britian.)
Otomat Designed by Italy Oto Melara JV with Matra France.
PAAMS- JV with Italy,France,Britian. Uses the Aster (missile family) again JV with Italy
Specifications: Horizon Class Anti-Air Warfare Frigates, France / Italy - Naval Technology
There is whole lot of other JV and Foreign owned subsidiary companies contributing on French Ships, which is almost on par with Indian built Ships! You dont need to take a dig at Indian projects anymore now that your French programs show a rash of Foreign Suppliers and JVs. Indian ships could be more Indian because atleast ESSAR steel is completely Indian.
Yup Arcelor-Mittal steal company is Indian owned.
Your correction is much appreciated. The Rafale desperately needs foreign customers and particularly Indian MMRCA.
No but they funded the program without which France would be hugely burdened, if it went alone.
All French ships run on finland engine? I dont care whose ship it is, how does it matter whose ship it is? We are talking about the engines origin which is made in Finland.
That does not mean a thing, the engine is a JV with Rolls Royce and so are a lot of your projects which will die out without JVs.
Oh no... Mistral uses COTS!! What are we to do?!?
The COTS in Mistral are commercial grade, the components in that Israeli radar are defence products.
Why did you have to go in for the British thrusters then? Rename it as a cruise ship.
Ya, that and you dont make any good navigation Radars. May be thats why they did not use ant French Nav-Radars and the main processor of the main Radars COTS too! Does it stand for Cant Manufacture by our self? You cant manufacture processors like Americans, If America puts sanctions then your main radar will go on R&D all over again. lol
Your wrong again, 31,280-HP MAIN gas turbine is GE/Avio and the smaller AUXILIARY engine 5,875-hp is SEMT Pielstick is owned by MAN Germany. War Ships have two engines as back up or power alternator. Your whole defense Industry is a JV juggernaut of indescribable proportions.
Thus Eurosam is owned by MBDA France and Italy Combined (66%) and Thales Group (33%). It has an American processor as well.
Well that just drills a lot of wholes in your argument when the word FOREIGN, JV and COTS keep raising up more than necessarily. Which only makes it more reliant on Foreign countries.
That is true of orders placed in the last decade, the new decade everything from Aircraft Carriers, Destroyers, Nuclear Submarines will be made here and yes the orders for French Submarines also stand. We dont make as much as France does but we have begun the process for self reliance. No one is comparing with anyone and same way on one should take pot shots at other nations when your own development still relies on JVs and COTS. Which have more than economic reasons behind them, Critical components are all COTS like Processors, if we had the money we will can develop all our technologies by ourself too.
To bad then. Its still Indian owned. That makes it a COTS ship.
Not fund the development but reduce the production cost by joining with a foreign partner.
I know man, he thinks privitisation is a curse on indigenous capabilities. If it is made in your country and you retain export controls, it makes no difference to me what European parent company owns a French subsidiary. I have no problem with an Indian company owning our steel industry either. It is made in France, if I want to own stock I can easily go on the EURONEXT and get dividend shares. His fascination with COTS being a curse to indigenous capabilities is equally suprising. Taking a bunch of commercial hardware and software and turning it into a working combat system is half the game. If it is commercially available = cheaper. If any country wasted the time re-inventing every little component just to avoid COTS, they would go bankrupt. Rather reminds me of the USSR... now 70% of Russian military electronics is imported COTS which is far higher than France.
Its hilarious you made this into an Private partnership issue when the topic is about Foreign JVs and Foreign parts like the engine, Thruster, some critical parts of electronics, Off the shelf purchase from foreign countries which limits ones own ablity to make. But if you are ok with that then we are ok with ToT from other countries and getting them manufactured here, after all we have started developing recently . So there is nothing to laugh at us either or take pot shots at our purchase. We make and buy a lot of our stuff, we also get ToTs and JVs done. The question is are they same as JVs done by developed nations? No, because we are not part of NATO and we did not spend the last century spending billion on R&D and dont have a network that shares scientific knowledge and easy access to each others technology. That does not make you any better because you rely on shareing and we rely on reinventing every part because of sanction from West, which is at times crippling. These are Giant leaps that we have taken buy ourself, It has taken us to an level where we can now manufacture our own battle ships, Submarines, Carriers, Aircrafts,Satellites, Rockets, Missiles, Radars, UAVs, Ammos, Guns, Tanks, WMDs and the List is GROWING... From 2000-10 we ordered from other nations and in a decade which is from 2010-20 we will see more of building here and 2020-30 we will have achieved more than 80% indegeniousation. That is Great for a country that is going alone and has started developing its economy recently and faces arm twisting, extortion on the market.
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