IAF to build its own trainer aircraft: Air Marshal Kanakaraj

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by ladder, Oct 7, 2013.

  1. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    IAF to build its own trainer aircraft: Air Marshal Kanakaraj | Business Standard

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    The specification of the Trainer aircraft is not provided but if it rivals HTT-40 then it is probably the reason for the tooth and nail opposition to HAL HTT-40.
     
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  3. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    News article from Jan 2012

    `IAF to get 75 microlight gliders for NCC cadets`


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    Maybe Air Marshal was indicating about designing and manufacturing these trainers.

    ps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_microlight_aircraft_competition
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  4. jmj_overlord

    jmj_overlord Regular Member

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    new new projects.........but may become stuck like lca, lch, amca, etc. Till then maybe the solution is imports
     
  5. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    It is not the time to play games in a desperate attempt to get a PVSM!
     
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  6. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    That statement was only my observation. It may turn out that the trainer aircraft may be different category ( microlight trainer) than HAL HTT40. And manufacturing it at BRD may be it is a genuine attempt seeing the diverse work load of HAL.

    But ACM N.A.K Browne's statement that IAF can develop MMRCA within 20yrs at and by its BRD is a statement which can have serious implication.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    My post is not indicative of yours.

    It is independent from all posts.

    Microlight , however cannot be a trainer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
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  8. Waffen SS

    Waffen SS New Member

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    Hope air force will have success but what is wrong with HTT 40? It seems great. So according to @ladder it will take another 20 years to develop.:boring:

    I ask what is wrong with Pilatus PC-7:wat:

    [​IMG]

    Microlight planes better suit in amature Flying clubs not in Air force though.:p

    How can a microlight plane compete against HTT 40?

    How ever good for NCC.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  9. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    Stuck at the basics of aircraft design | Business Line

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    So, here's catch IAF wants to licence manufacture Pilatus PC-7 MK-2 at 11 BRD Nasik.
     
  10. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    ACM N.A.K Browne stated IAF shall be able to develop MMRCA category combat jet within 20 years


    IAF hopes to build its own combat aircraft within 20 years | Mail Online
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  11. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    IAF to build its own trainer aircraft: Air Marshal Kanakaraj


    in 30 yrs:rofl::rofl::laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
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  12. venkat

    venkat Regular Member

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    Blackwater I am happy that atleast there is one in this forum who understood this as a joke!!!:rofl:
     
  13. LTE-TDD

    LTE-TDD Regular Member

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    Why joke? HAL can design and develop LCA, why not trainer? Is trainer more complcated than LCA?
     
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  14. jmj_overlord

    jmj_overlord Regular Member

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    the govt should encourage this project for iaf to build it's own aircraft than relying always on HAL. This might motivate HAL to complete their projects on time.
     
  15. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Before trying to build trainers and other fighters, IAF should know to how to give future proof ASR well in advance anticipating the future retirement of fighters or trainers to to HAL or ADA.

    IAF also did not show any interest when HAL on its own volition came forward with a mock up of a new trainer named HTT-35,after the IAF grounded HTT-32 in the 1990s itself.. But for more than ten years IAF did not show any interest in giving fresh ASR while smugly rejecting the HTT-45.

    IAF waited until 2009 to give an ASR for HHT-40 trainer , WHY?


    In many instances it periodically changed the ASR . For example IAF could not finalize ASR for AMCA from 2000 to 2009. Also despite the statements by DRDO chief V.K.Saraswat about LCA mk-3 , with tech developed for AMCA, IAF hasn't responded till now,

    Why?


    I also doubt the real reason for grounding HTT-32. The reason given by IAF that it was done due to engine failures is patently false.

    Because engine is an imported one and flying well on many trainers abroad. HAL did not make the engine.

    they grounded the trainer before trying to rectify the so called engine problem,
    IF they have so much capacity that they can design trainers and even a combat fighter in 20 years. Why didn't they try to set right the so called "engine or fuel pump" problems of the grounded HTT-32?

    It is a scam for IAF to allege that HAL which is building and exporting ALH is not fit to design and build a basic trainer, that too with a proven foreign engine.

    Boeing builds and delivers a passenger plane every 3 days, South korean shipyards deliver 100 giant container ships every year. So instead of investigating this problem and allocating enough resources to HAL and ADA, IAF is simply diverting the focus from real issues by foraying into its own manufacturing of planes.

    IF HAL is plagued by delays there is no guarantee that IAF will build them at rocket speed. Needless duplication of efforts will lead to more wastge of resources and we will end up with more TATRA truck like scam, where even after 5 decades most of the parts are imported by public sector PSU and palmed off to Army i the name of indigenous product while bleeding forex reserves.

    If HAL can not design and build a fighter , IAF too won't be able to do it. If they did it will end up like TATRA truck with imported stuff assembled here bearing a new name with forex out go , with no oversight and huge lifecycle cost all in dollars.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2013
  16. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

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    IAF to HAL: Build Swiss trainer aircraft, don't develop your own

    "IAF had invited HAL to manufacture the balance PC-7 Mk II required by IAF under license in India. However, in their own interest HAL declined to participate in license manufacture of the PC-7 Mk II."

    Turned away by HAL, Browne bizarrely claimed during the Air Force Day functions on October 8 that the IAF's base repair depots (BRDs) - set up to maintain and overhaul aircraft and engines - could also build aircraft. The IAF chief declared, "The 14 base repair depots (BRDs) have grown in both capability and capacity in a manner that the day is not far when it will be able to develop its own medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA)."

    A reality check was quickly provided by the IAF's maintenance chief, Air Marshal

    P Kanakaraj, who admitted that assembling aircraft "(would) be a quantum jump in the working of the maintenance command… We are bound to make mistakes initially, so pilot-less aircraft are an ideal platform to start off."

    Asked to comment on whether BRDs would now build Pilatus trainers, the IAF responded: "No decision has been taken on manufacturing the trainer aircraft in Base Repair Depot. As and when any decision is taken at a later stage, you would be informed."

    IAF to HAL: Build Swiss trainer aircraft, don't develop your own | Business Standard
     
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  17. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    God knows what intentions are residing in the mind of our present airchief when he supports Pliatus with such brave heart intentions!!!!!!!!!!

    Is he the IAF chief or Swiss Air force chief?
     
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  18. Decklander

    Decklander New Member

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    He is Chief of AF of bribe nation.
     
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  19. Dinesh_Kumar

    Dinesh_Kumar Regular Member

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    HTT-32's stall problems are not yet solved. Last crash killed 2 experienced instructors. HTT-32's airframes have life upto 2025, if problem can be solved. Many parents of pilots killed petition to meet the Chief and demand to know why their sons have been killed, and he has to answer them.Even i, as a layman, would hesitate to support HTT-40 solution of HAL, unless the problems and issues are solved. After doing some quick searching, i find HAL officials silent on HTT-32 fleet grounded (When Su-30 and Dhruv were grounded, HAL had promised to sort issues, and fleets were re-inducted). Best "fix" HAL has come up with is a parachute, to land the plane after it has stalled ! The CAG have described the HTT-32 as outdated and having safety problems, which HAL have not contested.

    PC-7 is proven, safe and reliable platform. Instructors and IAF Commanders can concentrate on getting rookies up and running as per schedules, and concentrate on core issues instead of fire fighting , and being blamed for pliots deaths, etc.

    To move forward, and support indigestion, HAL should be given a mandate to vigorously solve the HTT-32's problems, make design changes, and document the issues. When this is done, they can build the next generation , based on the HTT-32.

    HTT-32's problems are not simple fixes. The probable culprits are the Engine, Fuel Injection system and the Air frame itself. The OEM, Lycoming is not willing to support.

    I support indegenisation, even scrap the MMRCA deal and induct LCA seems good idea. But HTT-40 is a dangerous proposition, and safe and reliable platform is better choice.


     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2013
  20. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    I think forces have just found out that their is more money in making war machine, then operating them..................
     
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  21. Patriot

    Patriot Senior Member Senior Member

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    IMO IAF people are not a bit like Indian Navy who set up their design team to design their ships & systems and also get fully involved with dvelopment work with DRDO labs .

    Recently what IAF doing with Pilatus deal & HTT-40 creates doubts about their intentions.
     
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