IAF Mig-29

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by pyromaniac, Mar 14, 2009.

  1. pyromaniac

    pyromaniac Founding Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    NEW DELHI: In a move fraught with major implications for India, Russia has grounded a major chunk of its MiG-29 fleet due to structural defects.
    The Indian Air Force (IAF) operates over 60 MiG-29s as "all-weather air-superiority fighters".

    Moreover, the Indian Navy is soon to get 16 MiG-29Ks—the fighter's naval variant designed to operate from an aircraft carrier's deck—as part of the original $1.5 billion package deal signed with Russia in 2004 for Admiral Gorshkov.

    Sources said a navy team recently returned empty-handed from Russia after the delivery of its 16 MiG-29Ks was postponed because of Moscow's decision to ground its own MiG-29s. Russia apparently grounded its entire fleet of about 300 MiG-29s, codenamed 'Fulcrum' by Nato during the Cold War, after a couple of them crashed in southern Siberia in October-December due to the disintegration of their tail fins.

    Subsequently, around 90 MiG-29s have so far been found unsafe to fly during ongoing checks, while 100 have been cleared to take to the skies. Incidentally, Algeria had last year returned its 15 MiG-29s to Russia, holding that their quality was poor, which was strongly contested by Moscow.

    This does not augur well for India. As earlier reported by TOI, the IAF is already grappling with a huge dip in the number of its fighter squadrons, down to just 32 from the "sanctioned strength" of 39.5. The IAF hopes to reach its "desired strength" of 42 squadrons only by 2020 or so.

    Another reason is that even as India haggles with Russia over its additional $2 billion demand for Gorshkov's refit, the defence ministry has cleared the navy's proposal to buy 29 additional MiG-29Ks for Rs 5,380 crore.

    The procurement has been approved because both Gorshkov and the indigenous aircraft carrier, being built at the Cochin Shipyard, will operate MiG-29Ks once the two desperately needed warships are inducted into service in the next decade.

    The immediate concern, however, is for the IAF, which operates three MiG-29 squadrons along the western front for air defence purposes. "We have received no word from Russia. We are continuing to fly our MiG-29s from Halwara and Jamnagar," a senior officer said.

    The IAF had inducted over 70 twin-engined MiG-29s from 1986 onwards but has lost several of them in crashes, though these fighters are not as accident-prone as the single-engined MiG-21s or the recently phased out MiG-23s.

    Interestingly, six IAF MiG-29s are currently in Russia for a mid-life upgrade under a huge $964 million contract signed in March 2008. The other
    57 fighters will be retrofitted at the IAF base repair depot at Nashik under transfer of technology from Russia. Apart from extending their life from the present 25 years (2,500 flight hours) to 40 years (3,500 hours), the mid-life extension refit is supposed to turn these air-superiority fighters into far more lethal all-weather multi-role jets.

    The upgrade, slated for completion by March 2014, will include the advanced multi-functional Zhuk-ME radar and a new weapon control system
    . "The package will include state-of-the-art avionics and cockpit ergonomics, as also fuel capacity increase," said an official. "The upgraded MiG-29s will also be capable of beyond-visual-range combat, besides being armed with sophisticated air-to-air missiles, high-accuracy air-to-ground missiles and smart aerial bombs," he added.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...29-fleet/articleshow/msid-4262921,curpg-2.cms


    Thanks to ATUL for telling us about this
     
  2.  
  3. Triton

    Triton Founding Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    6
    I remember reading similar article some time ago when there were two crashes of Mig29's in southern Siberia and this article is just a copy and paste work of that old one.

    These problems will have major draw backs for Mig and I don't think so we will see Mig-35 as a major contender for MRCA requirement.
     
  4. Triton

    Triton Founding Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    6
    Russian fighter force grounded after MiG29 crash

     
  5. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,623
    Likes Received:
    11,702
    Actually those mig 29 are not properly maintained that is why this problem arose..... I dont think IAF had any kind of problem with it Migs.

    BTW 100 have been cleared for take off this shows that it is maintaince problem.
     
  6. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    20,305
    Likes Received:
    8,270
    Location:
    011
    A point to note however is that Unlike IAF, VVS doesn't log many hours on its fighters... India operates Mig29As which have shorter mtbo and airframe life than 29SMTs..
     
  7. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    6,503
    Likes Received:
    1,106
    Location:
    Moscow, russia
  8. Triton

    Triton Founding Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    6
    IAF not to ground its MiG-29 fighters for now

     
  9. rock45

    rock45 Founding Member/ RIP our friend

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    2
    Indian Fulcrum question

    Not sure if I'm posting this in the correct thread I'm guilty of adding one of those Indian Mig-29 posts myself.

    I don't have a link but remember reading some place that India has serviced and upgraded their own Mig-29s internally. Aren't India's Fulcrum's more on the level of SE Fulcrums and above the A model already? Because of this internal service can I assume most are operational?

    Thanks
     
  10. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,831
    Likes Received:
    23
    If the Indian MiGs have undergone any upgrade of their own, I'm sure its only some electronics and avionics upgrades that must have been performed (if at all any such upgrades have been done)...

    I've read that the MiGs are in the process of being upgraded and 6 MiG-29s have been sent to Russia for the upgrade as part of the first phase of upgradations.

    Now, what the problem seems to be with the MiGs in Russia is that their tail-fins "disintegrated" in mid air due to possibly rust or some other maintenance issue.

    Now, any upgrade in avionics or electronics could not have prevented that from happening because it seem to be a structural or materials issue with the quality of the tail-fins being called into question, either due to the build quality or due to the maintenance issues.

    I'm positively sure that our forces would have maintained our MiGs in much better condition than the Russians because after the end of the cold war, their military fleet was largely neglected and due to the lack of funds such problems do occur frequently... But, I'd adopt a wait and watch approach to this entire issue....

    As of now nothing seriously wrong has come out of the probe and it only seems to be a maintenance issue as far as one can see, but its better to wait for the Russian analysts/inspectors to come out with the actual problems with the tailfins and then we'll wait and see...
     
  11. pyromaniac

    pyromaniac Founding Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    Upgrading the Mig-29

    India is testing its MiG-29 fleet for structural flaws, after Russia grounded all 300 of its own, and found 90 of them had serious corrosion problems. Last year, the Indian air force sent the first six of its 78 MiG29 fighters to Russia for a major upgrade. This will cost about ten million dollars per aircraft, and extend their service life from the current 25 years, to 40 years. Thus India is planning on keeping its MiG-29s around until the 2030s. But that plan may be aborted if major corrosion problems are discovered.

    The MiG-29 entered Russian service in 1983, as the answer to the American F-16. Some 1,600 MiG-29s have been produced so far, with about 900 of them exported. India received its first MiG-29s in 1986, with deliveries continuing into the 1990s. The 22 ton aircraft is roughly comparable to the F-16, but it depends a lot on which version of either aircraft you are talking about. Russia is making a lot of money upgrading MiG-29s. Not just adding new electronics, but also making the airframe more robust. The MiG-29 was originally rated at 2,500 total flight hours. At that time (early 80s), Russia expected MiG-29s to fly about a hundred or so hours a year. India flew them at nearly twice that rate, and now Russia is offering to spiff up the airframe so that the aircraft can fly up to 4,000 hours, with more life extensions upgrades promised. This won't be easy, as the MiG-29 has a history of unreliability and premature breakdowns (both mechanical and electronic). Compared to Western aircraft, like the F-16, the MiG-29 is available for action about two thirds as much. While extending the life of the MiG-29 into the 2030s is theoretically possible, actually doing so will be real breakthrough in Russian aircraft capabilities.

    The Indian upgrade program will equip their MiG-29s to handle long range missiles, like the AMRAAM the U.S. is selling to Pakistan. That means installing a phased array radar. The Mig-29s will also get a modern cockpit, inflight refueling capability and dozens of minor tweaks.

    Because India's fighter fleet is aging rapidly, it only has 29 squadrons of fighters (about 24 aircraft each), instead of the 45 squadrons it would like to have. But with modernized fighters like the upgraded MiG-29, quality can, to a point, replace quantity. In fact, with the growing dominance of long range air-to-air missiles, and electronic warfare, the speed and agility of fighters is less important than are the electronics and missiles they carry.

    The MiG-29 upgrade program will take three years to complete. This will not solve the MiG-29 engine problem (too much visible smoke), and the Russians have promised that past problems in getting spare parts, will not happen again. All things being equal, the MiG-29 should be the equal of a F-16 or F-15. But in all combat so far, the MiG-29s have had the inferior pilots, and have lost. Indian pilots are probably the best trained, and most experienced, that are flying the MiG-29. If India should go to war in the future, while the MiG-29s are still in service, air force commanders will watch with interest how the aircraft does in the hands of world class pilots. But first it will have to survive its construction defects.

    http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/articles/20090408.aspx
     
  12. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,831
    Likes Received:
    23
    Don't the Indian MiG-29s already have the R-77 and the R-73 capability in addition to the R-60???
     
  13. kuku

    kuku Respected Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yes they do, and these missiles have seen on the Mig-29s (r-27,73,77).

    However with the current radar i doubt they can exploit the complete capabilities of these missiles.

    That is really vague, like stoner dude vague.
     
  14. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    2,006
    Likes Received:
    228
    But Kuku sir were'nt the Indian MiG 29s capable of carrying the R 27 only.
     
  15. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    20,305
    Likes Received:
    8,270
    Location:
    011
    Satishji in 1998 R77s were successfully test fired from Mig29s .. after the billion dollar upgrade Mig29s will be able to field and properly exploit next gen Russian tech and weapons..
     
  16. kuku

    kuku Respected Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    2
    no satishkumarcsc sir, they can fire the R-73 and R-77. There is a video or photo showing this, i can not find it right now.

    However the radars and other avionics are really ancient compared to what the upgrade will do.

    [​IMG]
    MiG-29S [KB3118] displayed at Airshow at Mumbai. Everything looks 'normal' except for the LCD on the left, probably a RWR display. The only IAF MiG-29 cockpit photo on the Internet.
    © Aadil Desai
    http://vayu-sena-aux.tripod.com/gallery-cockpits.html
     
  17. venom

    venom DFI Technocrat

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    8
    the upgrade includes Zhuk-ME

    The Phazotron NIIR Corporation's Zhuk is a family of advanced multifunctional multimode Doppler-pulse radars designed to provide air-to-air and air-to-surface combat modes for upgraded models of the Mig-29 Fulcrum and Su-27 Flanker aircraft families. Zhuk radars feature a maximum detection range from 110 to180 kilometers for airborne targets and 300 kilometers for sea targets. These radars can track and engage several targets simultaneously guiding sophisticated air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons. Zhuk family utilizes both steered and phased array antennas.

    In the air-to-air mode, the Zhuk radar can provide guidance for the latest generation of Russian-made missiles such as R-77, R-73 and R-27 as well as detection of a wide spectrum of airborne targets including hovering helicopters. In addition, the Zhuk radar also provides weather information. In the air-to-surface mode, the radar provides a 3x3 meters resolution ground mapping and support for low-altitude navigation. In the air-to-sea mode, the radar system can detect a destroyer-sized target at ranges of 300 kilometers or a small target, such as a patrol boat, at 150 kilometers.

    The Zhuk-ME features steered array radar antenna and is intended for the Mig-29 aircraft. It can detect airborne targets with a five square meter Radar Cross Section (RCS) at ranges of 110-120 kilometers in the forward hemisphere or 50 kilometers in the rear hemisphere while tracking 10 targets and engaging four of them simultaneously. It can track up to two ground/sea targets simultaneously. In the air-to-ground mode, the Zhuk-ME is capable of detecting armored formations at ranges of 25 kilometers and railway bridges at ranges of 120 kilometers.

    To date, the Zhuk-ME radar system has been installed on the Mig-29K, Mig-29KUB, Mig-29SMT, Mig-29M, Mig-29M2 and Mig-29UMT aircraft replacing the N-019E radar which features a detection range of 80 kilometers against airborne targets.
     
  18. s_bman

    s_bman Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    0
    there is some ambiguity on which radar upgraded mig 29 will get........some claim bars 29 a variant of NO11M Bars radar will be used, this might explain news of increased cost of upgrade :wink:

    Russia reveals lightweight version of NO11M Bars radar
     
  19. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,473
    Likes Received:
    1,015
  20. venom

    venom DFI Technocrat

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    8
    But the Indian upgrade includes Zhuk-ME not Bars-29...
     
  21. s_bman

    s_bman Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    0
    this is common understanding but zhuk me were supposed tobe used only for mig29k.....and not on upgraded mig 29..............even sen gupta claims the same
     

Share This Page