IAF Doesn’t Want To Wait For Indigenous AWACS Development

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Kaalapani, Apr 23, 2014.

  1. Kaalapani

    Kaalapani Tihar Jail Banned

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    http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140421/DEhFREG03/304210023

    Jai ho.:hair:


    The Air Force has an urgent requirement for 10 additional aircraft equipped with AWACS and does not want to wait for indigenous development. India’s Defence Ministry will be asked to cancel the program, the source added.

    @p2prada
    @Kunal Biswas

    IAF can buy what ever they want but why are they asking DRDO to cancel the protect.

    How can they test it with out aircraft to fly?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  3. abhi_the _gr8_maratha

    abhi_the _gr8_maratha Senior Member Senior Member

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    we need a defence minister who will kill negativity of army and air force towards indigenous product, awacs is not first product , arjun and tejas are also example of army and air force respectively killing indigenous products
     
  4. Sea Eagle

    Sea Eagle Senior Member Senior Member

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    If the sole reason for scrapping DRDO AWA&CS project is radar then its quite Pathetic !!!

    Radar technology is where you can trust drdo.

    But DRDO has lost trust due to the delay of AEW&CS project.
    And those chaps are busy showcasing there systems in Aero shows even knowning that the project is delayed
     
  5. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The interpretation of the article is wrong.

    I said this a few years ago and I will say it again. It is not IAF which decides imports but DRDO. Without DRDO approval they cannot import technology. Basically it means as long as DRDO thinks it is able to provide something the armed forces cannot buy it from a foreign source. The only time this is bypassed is when the armed forces are in desperate need of something that DRDO cannot provide in the short term or in the long term. One classic example of this was Arjun tank. And while DRDO allowed the IA to import T-90, similarly DRDO stopped IAF from buying the S-300 SAM.

    Now, the IAF is attempting to press for induction of more foreign AWACS, most probably the A-50/A-100. The article is simply speculating that the IAF wants to cancel the AWACS-India project because they want foreign AWACS instead of considering that IAF wants at least 10 foreign AWACS while still allowing DRDO to continue with the AWACS-India project for 6 more AWACS (+ options) because they know that DRDO cannot deliver the AWACS by 2020, which is very likely IMHO. The overall requirement by IAF alone is for 2 dozen such AWACS, so there is plenty of requirement in the long term. The IN may have a similar requirement too. If the IAF thinks 10 are needed as of now and the remaining supplied by DRDO after 2020, then I say, "Why not?"
     
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  6. Kaalapani

    Kaalapani Tihar Jail Banned

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    ..
    IF IAF needs 10 AWACS they should have asked for it some 10 years before .ie. 2007 -2010.

    Drdo should have started this project well before 2010 why so delay?
     
  7. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Only two parts of the article is true ..

    IAF has not said anything close to what Article mentioned, Its simply speculation of the editor`s own mind ..

    ===========================
    ===========================

    The DRDO AWACS specs are made by IAF which is unique and AWACS of such Specs is not available in entire Globe ..

    In that case IAF is no way going for an import any time soon ..
     
  8. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    New government will be in place by the end of May. They are unlikely to favor continuous imports on flimsy grounds that it's radar is not fully developed or something like that.

    Air Force has to clean up its own acts. They just dumped a brand new $300 aircraft to the ground. Call it turbulence (flimsy reasons), not adequately trained crew, over confident pilots and maintenance crew; whatever the reason it was a great loss. Those acts are to be remedied first.

    As the DRDO learns more, they will improve the radar. It is learning process. It takes time. But in the end you are not dependent on imports.

    Watch out for the new Defence Minister, he may not be as bureaucratic as Anthony had been. They would cut the red tape, increase private sector participation, increase FDI to 49% and we would have a better procurement model for Defence hardware.

    It is pity to know that IAF have dug its heals like its sister services to urgently procure trainer from Switzerland, AWACS from Israel, fighters from France, stealth fighter from somebody as they do not like Russian design and many more as they like the description provided in glossy brochures better. For change go local and never be dependent on spares and ammunitions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
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  9. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    They did. The IAF had such a requirement since 2000. It started with Israeli/Russian inductions of 5 Phalcons. They pressed for more and DRDO said they would make it.

    The armed forces live in reality while DRDO lives in denial of that reality. They are not really concerned with the defence of the nation like the armed forces are, but just designing military equipment at the expense of the taxpayer with heavy cost and time overruns which was proven over and over and over again. There is a reason why every Indian military professional on DFI hates DRDO.

    My policy is simple, if DRDO says they will make something, then go ahead. If armed forces say they need something, then let them buy it at the expense of DRDO. Let's not make equipment at the expense of the armed forces.

    When the tsunami happened, people were quick to blame ISRO for not providing adequate warning. But ISRO did not have a single facility that allowed such a warning to happen. Similarly, if the armed forces lose a war because the right equipment wasn't provided, then it won't be right to blame the armed forces either.

    Defence industries are built over decades, and we will need decades more for that to happen whereas the armed forces need equipment and plan just a few years ahead. Holding the armed forces at ransom simply because your ego and pride is in the way is plain stupid.

    If the IAF wants 10 AWACS from foreign shores, then give it to them. They know best.
     
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  10. Jagdish58

    Jagdish58 Regular Member

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    Kunali ji i guess u got it wrong , they will import sub standard crap without proper after sales support and cry for it later with major cost over run:sad:
     
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  11. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    If you ask me - There are only 2 defense programs that require a wholly government owned entity to run - nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles.
    You can maybe add space exploration as a 3rd. That is because the investment costs, ROI, and security implications render them almost impossible for private companies in a country like India to participate.

    All other projects like fighter aircraft, submarines, aircraft carriers, destroyers, tanks, helicopters, small firearms, etc can be farmed out to private industry.
    Private Industry in India will not participate because the risk is too great.....unless the GOI throws in very strong incentives, and helps private industry offset the initial investment costs.

    I don't see why India cannot do this - companies like HAL can be spun off or turned into quasi-private enterprises where they have to compete to stay in business or go bust.
     
  12. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Networking and Electronic warfare as well.

    Private companies are a part of India's space industry. Godrej makes the Vikas engines. Most of our rocket failures came from faulty parts made by private industries. The same with ballistic missiles.

    Even with the right incentives, the risk is too great. At least DRDO is able to stop the armed forces by law, private companies cannot.

    Take the example of MRF tyres for the MKI. IAF asked the company to design and build the tyres without any investment or incentive. The IAF said they will not pitch in with money but MRF is to invest in the R&D by itself. And IAF will only buy it after the tyres pass all tests. Basically, you design something with no guarantees of purchase. At first MRF disagreed and finally relented for some unknown reason. Now we have desi tyres for the MKI. So, the risk for private companies is very high.

    Today, there are multiple companies fighting for the FICV contract, only one will win. All the investment the losers would have made would go to waste. More risk when competition is involved.

    HAL won't be privatized because they won't be able to take such risks with private investment, the shareholders will disallow it. If they go bust, the entire country's aeronautics industry will go bust. Entirely different if Reliance and Tata manage to setup their own large scale industries at a future date. But that's a couple of decades away.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
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