Hype about Pakistani ballistic missiles

smartindian

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Hype about Pakistani ballistic missiles
I want to know what are the criteria for a missile 1) it pay load or 2)range
For ex a shaheen -2 missile which Pakistan claims to be having a range of 2ooo kms can take only 700 kg pay load where as agni-2 which as a range 2500 can take a pay load of 2oookgs

1 Can any one tell me how can a 700kg pay load missile can be made MIRV is it possible

2 they call shaheen -2 to be highly maneuvering missile and have counter measures against anti- ballistic missile , how it is possible. (when there ballistic missile cant even see abm missiles) ?
A missile usually corrects itself with inputs from GPS system to have optimal CEP. Shaheen 2 does not have the capability to detect an anti missile on its own to take "evasive" maneuvers. If one is to believe that it can take inputs from ground control then, ground control should also have info of the anti missile to know when to submit inputs

Why Pakistani never test there missile in the direction of sea so they can now exact range of the missile like India
please provide your valuable information
:angry_1::angry_1::angry_1::angry_1::angry_1::angry_1::angry_1::angry_1::angry_1::angry_1:
 

shuvo@y2k10

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all pakistani missiles are green painted old and outdated missiles which are either china made or manufactured in north korea or modified us weapons .pakistan hasn't yet manufactured a pencil battery or a bicycle on its own let alone ballistic missile or cruise missile
 

Illusive

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Even for ground inputs to have information they would need a source, satellites, do they have any such think that can detect the ABM then transfer the data to the ground units and then the ground units maneuvering the path, nopes pakistan isn't capable of performing that in real time.
 

shuvo@y2k10

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i think by shaheen 2 ballistic missile they meant a bunch of pak terrorist who can strike 2000 km away from mainland and who are highly manueverable against abm defences like mumbai police in this case
 
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neo29

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Correction ... firstly the Pakistani ballistic missile series are nothing but variants of DF given by China. So i think we must call them China made Pakistani modified ballistic missiles.

Their best ballistic missiles are Ghauri 2 and Shaheen 2 with 2500 to 3000 to cover whole of India. They were to test Ghauri 3 but did not coz of international pressure.
 

smartindian

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Correction ... firstly the Pakistani ballistic missile series are nothing but variants of DF given by China. So i think we must call them China made Pakistani modified ballistic missiles.

Their best ballistic missiles are Ghauri 2 and Shaheen 2 with 2500 to 3000 to cover whole of India. They were to test Ghauri 3 but did not coz of international pressure.
ghauri -2 and shaheen-2 have a range 2000km at the pay load of 700kg
first question is what is the weight of there nuclear bomb , and what it yield of there nuclear weapon , they alway test there weapon in there territory it means they don't want to show there failures ?
 

smartindian

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ghauri -2 is a liquid fuel missile and it takes days of preparation before lunch so it can be assumed that at the time of war it will be destroyed at the time of the preparation itself .
 

smartindian

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@gogbot but pakistan dont have the technology, ghauri is based on nodong missile which it take time in between 24-48 hours. more our both india and pakistan keep missile and war head separately it also take time to mate the war head with the missile. (but i might be wrong )
 

neo29

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^^^

India can assemble their warheads in matter of hours. Besides that India does have some missiles ready with warheads. I personally feel that at any given time we may have at least 20-30 nuke warheads ready.
 

Yusuf

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^^^

India can assemble their warheads in matter of hours. Besides that India does have some missiles ready with warheads. I personally feel that at any given time we may have at least 20-30 nuke warheads ready.
Negative. India does not have any "hot" missiles. All nukes in India are in component form. It will be assembled only when we need to strike back. Its part of nuclear survival method.
 

neo29

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Negative. India does not have any "hot" missiles. All nukes in India are in component form. It will be assembled only when we need to strike back. Its part of nuclear survival method.
Thats not possible at all .. During second strike capability we need to be alive to survive the onslaught, hence hot missiles are always ready with of course. We cant assemble once we have been hit. And especially with 2 hostile nuke neighbors surely this policy is adopted and existing.
 

Yusuf

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India has a limited arsenal. Limited delivery systems. If the missiles are hot and the enemy takes out the missiles in a first strike, that would also take the nukes with it. If the nukes are not mated, we have other missiles, bombers to carry those missiles. Even Pakistan which has a first strike policy does not keep its missiles hot for precisely the same reason. This gives India if we develop good intel gathering technique enough warning about an impending missile strike as it will be picked up ie mating of warheads and fueling of birds.
 

neo29

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^^^^^
Its logically not possible that India does not have hot missiles. Besides these hot missiles need to be replaced every now and then, the cycle continues.

If India does not have hot nukes then they will not think of a Nuclear Triad. Arihant is our second strike capability, and is as good as hot nukes. We aint going to leave the SLBM on the shores and only collect when we have to retaliate. Same goes for the strategic bomber squadron that is going on.

We already have land based hot nukes in place. Hence we are securing the nuclear triad. Doesnt make sense to go for nuclear triad if no hot nukes in place.
 

Yusuf

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Do you know something, China with boomers and SLBM is yet to go on a sub patrol with hot nukes??
 

Agantrope

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India has a limited arsenal. Limited delivery systems. If the missiles are hot and the enemy takes out the missiles in a first strike, that would also take the nukes with it. If the nukes are not mated, we have other missiles, bombers to carry those missiles. Even Pakistan which has a first strike policy does not keep its missiles hot for precisely the same reason. This gives India if we develop good intel gathering technique enough warning about an impending missile strike as it will be picked up ie mating of warheads and fueling of birds.
No Yusuf, India do learnt the lessons from the Op. Parakaram and after that we are ready with the hot missiles and dont want to take a chance in the national security. around 30 Warheads were in the Hot missiles in the Rajasthan and the Assam border regions
 

Yusuf

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What's the delivery system for the hot nukes?? Missiles?? Which one?? India is yet to operationaliize Agni 3. Agni 2 is being inducted. I don't think we have 30 of those missiles. Right now only aircraft delivery is the way for india and their are no hot nukes in any AFBs
 

Yusuf

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Also Agan there is no relation between Op Parakram and operational readiness of indian nukes. OP was a conventional op. Only a cuban missile like crises can make india rethink its nuke doctrine to change it to hair trigger alert. China can do that for india if it deploys any missiles in GB.
 

pmaitra

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Do you know something, China with boomers and SLBM is yet to go on a sub patrol with hot nukes??
Chinese boomers and SLBMs are not quite related to this thread. In most probability, at least some Indian nukes are always in ready-to-fire mode.

The Indian Drive towards Weaponization: the Agni Missile Program

By Michael Kraig, Consultant to Federation of American Scientists

After failing to reverse-engineer a SA-2 Guideline SAM as a viable ballistic missile under Project Devil in the 1970s, India formed the Integrated Guided Missile Development Program IGMDP in 1983 with the aim of achieving self-sufficiency in missile development & production. The Department of Defense notes that "the space program supports New Delhi's missile efforts through shared research, development and production facilities." The two systems produced under the IGMDP that are most likely to be a delivery vehicle for nuclear warheads are the short range tactical missile, Prithvi SS-150 (Army) and SS-250 (Airforce), and the Agni-II Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile (IRBM).

Agni (Fire) is an Intermediate-Range Ballistic Missile (IRBM) which began development in 1979. It became part of India's Integrated Guided Missile Development Program (IGMDP) in 1983 and has a tested range of 1400-1500 km. The Agni was developed principally by the Indian Defense Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) under the Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO), at the Defence Research Complex at Kanchanbagh, on the periphery of Hyderabad's Old City. The Agni is built by Bharat Dynamics, which has its primary facility in Hyderabad Defense Research Complex. A second Bharat Dynamics facility in Bhanoor is probably responsible for the manufacture of the Agni's solid rocket motors. Also at the Hyderabad Defence Research Complex, the Defense Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL) and the government-owned special metals industry Mishra Dhatu Nigam Ltd. (MIDHANI) provide assistance in the research and fabrication of special metals used in missile construction.

Agni I Technology Test Bed, 1979-1994

The purpose of the Agni I was primarily to test reentry vehicle technology for military use. There were three flight tests of the Agni I before the BJP came to power: 22 May 1989; 29 May 1992; 19 February 1994. The second test was a partial failure, and in 1995, India indefinitely suspended the flight test program under pressure from the United States. The suspension of production and testing might also have been due to indecision regarding the future directions of India's nuclear program, especially the pursuit of thermonuclear weapons. However, Prime Minister Gowa said in 1997 that India had no intention of giving up the program permanently.

Results: Not Fit for Efficient Weaponization. The Technological Test Beds achieved a maximum range of 1500 km, covering all of Pakistan and large areas of Southwestern China, but the combination of first-stage solid fuel and second-stage liquid fuel propulsion systems made deployment and launch operations clumsy and immobile, requiring half a day of preparation. The liquid fuel was volatile, requiring loading just before launch. Also, the rocket was fairly inaccurate (Circular Error Probability of 100 meters) and had an inefficient launch control system. The CEP of 100 meters meant that the missile would only strike within 100 meters of its target 50% of the time.

Agni II: Operational Improvements for Weaponization, 1994-1999

After the BJP renewed the program in 1998, the Agni-II was tested on 11 April 1999 to a range of approximately 2000-2200 km. The range of the missile could be altered by appropriately configuring the payload mass (i.e., constructing different size warheads). At a length of 20 meters and weight of 16 tons, the Agni-II is an improvement over its predecessor, which had a length of 21 meters and a weight of 19 tons.

At the time of the April 1999 test, Indian Defense Minister George Fernandes said the Agni missile was ready to go into production, though he did not specify the production or deployment schedule. Similarly, then-DRDO Director A.J.P. Abdul Kalam asserted that no more tests were needed to operationalize and weaponize Agni-II. This indicates that the re-entry vehicle had already been rigorously tested in its previous Agni-I technology test bed flights. However, given that two new launch pads for flight testing have been constructed in Balasore district, including the IC-4 pad at Wheeler Island that was used for the April 1999 test, it is highly likely that several more tests are being planned. It is doubtful that deployment would occur without further verification of missile accuracy and reentry vehicle performance.

Launch operations and internal missile computations have been streamlined. If inducted, Agni-II will reportedly always be in a ready-to-fire mode and can be launched within 15 minutes. Over 600 communications channels inside the rocket and in ground launch control, with 24 km of wiring, have been eliminated to allow for a single control system. There are now only 10 pairs of communications channels with one-eighth the original wiring.

The Agni-II incorporates a far more accurate terminal navigation and guidance system which constantly updates information about the missile flight path using Global Positioning System information provided by ground-based beacons. DRDO's Chief Controller of R&D (Missile division), A.S. Pillai, stated after the Agni-II test, "We have improved accuracy by a factor of at least three. It is a far more lethal missile now." A Japanese newspaper report stated that Agni-II achieved a Circular Error Probability of 40 meters, although future tests would be required to substantiate the computer simulations that India used to produce this figure.

Both stages of the Agni-II have a solid-fuel propulsion system, which allows the missile to be relatively mobile and flexible. The second-stage system was taken almost directly from India's Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) program and has already been extensively tested and used by the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO). Computer simulations can draw upon ISRO's data to further refine the Agni-II.

The Agni-II would be deployed via a rail-based missile launcher, which demonstrates a potential capability for dispersal in time of a crisis for maximum survivability of the deterrent. The rail launch system disguises both the missile launcher and the separate mobile launch control center under "bogie" covers on a regular commercial goods cargo train, which can be used in most parts of the Indian commercial rail system.

For adjustments to missile trajectory during flight, which allow for higher accuracy, the second stage booster has a flex nozzle which enables alterations in the thrust vector direction. Previously, the flex nozzle has been used only in the third-stage motor of the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle. Also to increase accuracy, the re-entry vehicle employs a terminal guidance radar operating in the C- and S-bands. Also, last minute/second adjustments have been optimized through on-board software which allow reentry velocity trimming. The data bus for the on-board navigation system has been changed to off-the-shelf commercial digital technology to allow for flexible software upgrades in future versions of the missile.

On 14 March 2002, Defence Minister George Fernandes informed Indian Parliament that the Agni-II has entered the production phase and is under induction.

Source: Agni-II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hence, we can reasonably conclude that some Indian Nuclear Missiles are 'hot', i.e. in ready-to-fire mode.

Coming to the other question: Hype or no hype, we cannot afford to underestimate Pakistan. We also need to keep in mind a scenario where rogue elements have gotten some warheads or fissile material. Hence, I think India has definitely kept some missiles in ready-to-fire mode.
 
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neo29

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Do you know something, China with boomers and SLBM is yet to go on a sub patrol with hot nukes??
Sirji .. let China do anything they want. They must have their own reasons. In that case US has SLBM in most of its nuke subs. Thats not the point

We as it is have heard numerous reports of missiles being moved to Tibet to target India for years. It is obviously assumed that we have done the same and reports have surfaced of Agni's moved to Eastern border. Now China has hot nukes aimed at Taiwan .. it is their policy and it is highly likely that they have done the same with us. Pakistan too has hot nukes pointed at us especially after Kargil war where they did not have nuke delivery system in place.

The Indian establishment very well knows what these both have done and obviously done the same. Lets accept the fact that India is surely concerned about nukes falling into Taliban's hands. India is also worried that Pakistan army is the one who controls everything and if at all a nut case general tries some military adventurism with India by stealing or firing nukes then we are in trouble.

India hence surely must have placed its second strike ability at all times ready and as a matter of fact upgrading to the nuclear triad. India has always kepts is nuclear program secret obviously wont declare all this but the scenario understood by the geopolitics going on in the region.
 

smartindian

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NEW YORK: Former President Pervez Musharraf has said missile tests of Ghauri I and Ghauri II failed and Dr. Qadeer Khan is well aware of all this, Geo News reported.

He said those goods, which Dr. Qadeer would import or export, would be exempted from checking at customs therefore none dared to touch them. Only Dr. Qadeer Khan is responsible for nuclear proliferation.

He was allowed to go anywhere upon informing the government officials when I was on charge being president of Pakistan, Musharraf said, dispelling the impressions that Dr. Qadeer would remain under house arrest.

Supporting his decision to place precincts upon AQ Khan, Musharraf said he provided protection to Dr Qadeer Khan by means of putting ban on him as foreign forces were becoming mad to take him from Pakistan.

This Pervez Musharraf said, responding to a question posed by Jang News correspondent here in New York.

To a question, Musharraf said Dr. Qadeer Khan was an expert at Metallurgy science and did some work in nuclear enrichment whereas other scientists played major role in making Pakistan nuclear power but only considering him being hero, is injustice to other scientists.

Admitting that a letter he received from former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, he said BB wrote me a letter, carrying three names whom she thought would attack on her, but I believe that Baitullah Mehsood assassinated her.

Those three persons, indicated in her letter, were Pervez Ilahi, Brig (Retd.) Ijaz Shah and General (retd.) Hameed Gul, he said.

"Baitullah Mehsood was the master mind of her assassination," he claimed adding, "But I cannot confirm who might be behind the plot to kill Benazir."

Musharraf said Lal Mosque issue is being politicized only. There were only 125 persons in mosque as all women and girls had gone off the mosques before attack
http://thenews.com.pk/latest-news/4606.htm
 

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