Hyderabad MP Asaduddin Owaisi with Hezbollah Commander

[Ray]

What will you call Hafeez Saeed then? Handlers are more dangerous.

Come on; he is such a nice chap.

Works only for Charitable organisation that we feel uses weapons and other means!

You don't believe the Pakistani Supreme Court that is about to topple the present Govt that Mian Hafeez is a cute as a pedigree cat?

 

[The Messiah]

Arafat was not a terrorist.

Speaking of arafat...if israelis would have accepted peace talks at the time with clinton then hamas might not have come into power but even the hands of israeli govt is tied because few of there people are making settlements in palestine land in west bank.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Ejazr,

What sort of diplomacy is being conducted by the GoI by sending a delegation to meet up with members of Hezbollah? If this person indeed is a member of Hezbollah.

Was this also the time when Hezbollah called India as a friend, and they gave a bite in favor of Kashmir?

 

[anoop_mig25]

isn`t hezbollah a terrorist organistaion?? and when it to kashmir issue all such type organisation supports pakistan then india

 

[ejazr]

Be it 2008...Did the GoI actually send this thug/rowdy to parley with an international terrorist network ? Oh I forgot it was the Congress that was ruling at that time !

If you read my post you will see that Hizbullah is apolitical party in southern Lebanon. And GoI even invited Hezbollah spokesperson to India in 2007.

Arafat was not a terrorist.

I think Yusuf was being sarcastic and trying to explain why GoI having influence and political channels with all political movements in the region is the smart thing to do.


While Hezbullah, Mushrraf and Arafat are in a differetn ball game, look at the US links with groups like the Haqqani network in Afghanistan. Jaluddin Haqqani was directly supported and trained by the US and their allies the Saudis with Pakistan being the go between. And Ronald Reagan actually invited him in the white house

 

[Galaxy]

अब राम नवमी उत्सव मनाने एवं मंदिर में घंटी बजाने पर रोक की माँग

हैदराबाद में मजलिस पार्टी के के नेता अकबरुद्दीन ओवैसी ने शहर में राम नवमी के अवसर पर निकलने वाली शोभा यात्रा को अनुमति ना देने की प्रशासन से माँग की है| ओवैसी का कहना है की इस बार ईद मिलाद-उन-नवी का उत्सव होली के त्यौहार के आसपास ही है और उसी के कुछ दिन के बाद ही राम नवमी का उत्सव है जिससे शहर में दंगो की स्थिति पैदा हो सकती है|

ओवैसी की इस मांग से शहर के हिंदुओं में अत्यधिक रोष है और वही हिंदूवादी संघठनो ने इसकी कड़ी निंदा की| इस मुद्दे पर शहर के युवा नेता राजा सिंह ने कहा कि एक ओर ओवैसी प्रशासन से ईद मिलाद-उन-नवी के भव्य आयोज़न में सहयोग की अपील कर रहे है वही दूसरी ओर रामनवमी ओर हनुमान जयंती पर पाबंदी की माँग कर रहे है| राजा भाई ने कहा की पुराने शहर में मुस्लिम लीग का गुंडा राज चल रहा है जिसमें कांग्रेस बराबर की भागीदारी रही है| उन्होंने कहा की कोई भी राम नवमी ओर हनुमान जयंती मनाने से उन्हें नहीं रोक सकता|

राजा सिंह जी ने शहर की स्थिति बताते हुए कहा की सरकार हिंदू विरोधी कार्य करने में लिप्त है जिसका ताजा उदाहरण चार मीनार के पास स्थित भाग्यलक्ष्मी जी के मंदिर पर 'आरती के समय घंटे' बजाने पर रोक है; जिसके लिए प्रशासन ने दो कांस्टेबल भी भक्तों को घंटे-घन्टी बजाने से रोकने के लिए लगाये है|

इस विषय पर हिंदू महासभा के प्रदेश अध्यक्ष श्री जयपाल नयाल ने कहा कि ये माँग ना सिर्फ निंदा योग्य है बल्कि राष्ट्रभावना के विरुद्ध है, राम नवमी का उत्सव ना सिर्फ हिंदुओं का उत्सव है बल्कि यह पूरे भारत वर्ष का उत्सव है जो की भारतीय पुण्य भूमि के गौरान्वित इतिहास को दर्शाता है|

वही इस मुद्दे पर भाजपा के नगर कार्यकारिणी सदस्य नरेश अवस्थी ने इसे राजनितिक लाभ उठाने का प्रयास बताया| उन्होंने कहा कि ये माँग हिंदुओं एवं मुस्लिमो के बीच ईर्ष्या की भावना पैदा करने के लिए की गयी है ओर उन्होंने गृह मंत्री से इस माँग पर तत्काल कार्यवाही की अपील की है और कहा की राम नवमी का उत्सव इस बार ही पहले की तरह ही धूमधाम से मनाया जायेगा|

अब राम नवमी उत्सव मनाने एवं मंदिर में घंटी बजाने पर रोक की माँग

 

[Yusuf]

Yes Ejaz I was sarcastic.

 

[noob101]

I wrote a post a while ago about a muslim friend that I had in college.... He was a very patriotic Indian but said things like "All the Jews in Israel should be killed and Israel should be wiped from the map", "Christ will return to earth and cut the throats of all Christians". But he was a patriot, my point is even though all of my other friends considered him a good human being I didn't because how does one condone the murder of one group of people but condemn the murder of an other group and in this case both groups of people are innocent.....

This same principle should be applied here, how much out cry would there be if Asaduddin Owaisi was seem with an LeT commander.... If that was the case then this thread would have reached 100+ pages by now....

 

[The Messiah]

This same principle should be applied here, how much out cry would there be if Asaduddin Owaisi was seem with an LeT commander.... If that was the case then this thread would have reached 100+ pages by now....

what makes you think it can't reach 100+ pages ? All it needs is a few sparks from me

 

[noob101]

Speaking of arafat...if israelis would have accepted peace talks at the time with clinton then hamas might not have come into power but even the hands of israeli govt is tied because few of there people are making settlements in palestine land in west bank.

I think that the Palestinians have to realize that as long as there is no permanent agreement between to the 2 sides Israel is going to use that as a excuse to expand further into Muslim areas, The Arab world and Palestinian leadership has an attitude of going for the complete gaol or die trying (complete goal being kicking out the Jews), If things keep going the way they are then the Palestinians are going die trying...

I know the Israel superficially says that it wants to have a permanent settlement but they just want more land.... This is what the Arab countries should realize that as long as the keep pouring fuel on the fire its just going to get more Muslims killed than Jews. all that money that Iran and KSA pour into groups like hezbollah should really go for gaining independence for the Palestinians.

 

[noob101]

what makes you think it can't reach 100+ pages ? All it needs is a few sparks from me

waiting for your sparks:cool2::cool2:

 

[The Messiah]

I think that the Palestinians have to realize that as long as there is no permanent agreement between to the 2 sides Israel is going to use that as a excuse to expand further into Muslim areas, The Arab world and Palestinian leadership has an attitude of going for the complete gaol or die trying (complete goal being kicking out the Jews), If things keep going the way they are then the Palestinians are going die trying...

I know the Israel superficially says that it wants to have a permanent settlement but they just want more land.... This is what the Arab countries should realize that as long as the keep pouring fuel on the fire its just going to get more Muslims killed than Jews. all that money that Iran and KSA pour into groups like hezbollah should really go for gaining independence for the Palestinians.

arafat compramised and conceded a lot of there demands including rezognition of israel as a state and 1967 borders...israel didn't want to have a agreement because they had the backing of usa and were more powerful and still are. Its nothing against israel but strong countries dont bargain with weak countries. its the way it is.

arabs themselves dont give a shit about palestine...they only use it as a beating drum for political reasons.

 

[ejazr]

Ejazr,

What sort of diplomacy is being conducted by the GoI by sending a delegation to meet up with members of Hezbollah? If this person indeed is a member of Hezbollah.

Was this also the time when Hezbollah called India as a friend, and they gave a bite in favor of Kashmir?

I am not privy to what exactly the reason was, but countries like Syria have been traditional allies of India during the cold war period. Hezbullah is a political party in lebanon with a strong base in the south. So if you are going to meet MPs whose constituency is in the south of Lebanon, most likely it will be meeting with MPs that belong to Hezbullah - the political party there. So it wasn't a visit to go meet militant organizations as you can read from the quick translation from the news report. GoI would have most likely notified that Indian MPs are coming to visit Lebanon to the Indian embassy there and the embassy officials would have worked with the Lebanese officials on the entire itinerary. Owaisi would then be informed that this is his itinerary. At least this is how MP visits are organized by the MEA.

Just as a brief history, Hezbullah began as a shia militant group to fight off Israel from territories occupied by Israel in 1982. IT was also the pioneer of the suicide bombing among Muslims. Something that many other Muslim groups including the Salafi/Wahabbi ulemas of Saudi opposed of as a strategy. But Hezbullah were actually successful to use this strategy to force Israel to withdraw and hence gained popular support even among average Lebanese on top of the shia presence.

In the geopolitics of the region, Hezbullah is obviously supported by Iran and Syria. You can probably add Iraq to the mix now as well thanks to blunders of GW Bush that removed Saddam Hussein. The Gulf Arab states including the Saudis oppose Hezbullah and would secretly like it to be crushed or at least marginalized politically to reduce Iranian influence in the Arab world. In Wikileaks cables, you can read up on saudi officials hoping that Israel can "clean up" their support base and after the 2006 war regretting that the half job that Israel did actually strengthened Hezbullah's position.
(Israel can't defeat Hezbollah: Israeli expert - Prime Minister Ehud Olmert - Zimbio)

Now I can speculate the reasons why GoI would send Owaisi to Lebanon and then the reason to invite Hezbullah reps to a West Asia conference in New Delhi. I would guess that people in the MEA are smart enough to realize that Hezbullah is a political force in the region and that it would be important to engage with it in track 2 and track 3 channels. Obviously sending SM Krishna to visit Hezbullah MPs would be a big no no. So the next best thing would be to send a muslim MP to help GoI out with this outreach. It gives GoI some distance from controversial groups and plausible deniability if questioned on this account. And ofcourse for Owaisi his "humanitarian visit" to Lebanon devastated by Israeli war would play with his traditional constituents.

Part of the reason for calling the West Asia conference in 2007 and a subsequent Persian gulf specific conference in 2010 was part of India's track 2 initiatives to play a greater role and stabilize the region. While many people on this forum reflexively look at foreign policy with a religious angle (much like our neighbor Pakistanis I might add) the MEA has people smart enough to understand and do whatever it can to increase its influence in the region.

Increasing contacts with Hezbullah and Syria, both of which Israel considers as hostile states as part of playing a future mediation role when the chance arises. It could also be part of a mediating role that India is exploring to play between Gulf Arab states and Iran on the other side. These are all exploratory in nature, but the fact of the matter is you have to keep diplomacy extremely proactive in this region as it is vital to our interests on top of being part of our extended neighborhood. Any instability in this region can in some way or another impact us in the long run.

The Syria visit by Owaisi in particular would obviously be a traditional goodwill visit. It could be a precursor to the visit by the Indian president in 2010 to a traditional ally.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article915170.ece


Keep in mind that this is all circa 2006. So I am not sure why this is being brought up now. I have not come across Hezbollah voicing any support for Kashmir in particular. You might be talking about the Iranian head of state mentioning about Kashmir perhaps which they did start doing only recently. Ofcourse, do keep in mind that Iran feels betrayed by the two IAEA votes and our closer ties with the Gulf Arab states as well as Israel under UPA as compared to NDA when we actually had a defence pact with Iran and conducted naval war game with them.

 

[noob101]

arafat compramised and conceded a lot of there demands including rezognition of israel as a state and 1967 borders...israel didn't want to have a agreement because they had the backing of usa and were more powerful and still are. Its nothing against israel but strong countries dont bargain with weak countries. its the way it is.

arabs themselves dont give a shit about palestine...they only use it as a beating drum for political reasons.

Im not disagreeing with you, im just saying that the underlying problem is that Palestinians have a better chance for survival if they go for a permanent peace settlement and the longer they wait the amount of they will lose to Israel. Of course Uncle Sam and the Arab countries don't want to have anything to do with a peaceful settlement. But there are still other players out there like the Eurozone countries that will agree to a creation of a Palestinian state maybe that is what they should be pushing for...

 

[The Messiah]

Im not disagreeing with you, im just saying that the underlying problem is that Palestinians have a better chance for survival if they go for a permanent peace settlement and the longer they wait the amount of they will lose to Israel. Of course Uncle Sam and the Arab countries don't want to have anything to do with a peaceful settlement. But there are still other players out there like the Eurozone countries that will agree to a creation of a Palestinian state maybe that is what they should be pushing for...

if i was an israeli i wouldn't negotiate with palestine! what have palestine got to offer that israel cant take itself ?

 

[ejazr]

I wrote a post a while ago about a muslim friend that I had in college.... He was a very patriotic Indian but said things like "All the Jews in Israel should be killed and Israel should be wiped from the map", "Christ will return to earth and cut the throats of all Christians". But he was a patriot, my point is even though all of my other friends considered him a good human being I didn't because how does one condone the murder of one group of people but condemn the murder of an other group and in this case both groups of people are innocent.....

This same principle should be applied here, how much out cry would there be if Asaduddin Owaisi was seem with an LeT commander.... If that was the case then this thread would have reached 100+ pages by now....

My friend, even Iran Ahmedinajad doesn't say all jews should be killed so your "Muslim friend" must really be a rare breed and a class act. But you will find many Israelis who say the same thing about Palestinians as well. And we are talking about ministers and heads of state levels. Some calling them cockroaches and others even questioning whether they exist.

But leaving the "anecdotal stories" and rhetoric aside, lets look at the foreign policy dynamics:
At the state level, other than Iran which does not even say that it is ready to accept Israel, all other Muslim countries including the Arab Leagues states are willing to recognize Israel in return for the establishment of a Palestinians state as part of the Arab peace initiative.
http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm

Even pro-Palestinian groups in India highlight the two state solution as the end state solution not killing of all Jews. Most old Jewish colonies particularly in Mumbai were next door or part of Muslim neighborhoods because of their close custom and ritual slaughter practices of Kosher and Halal. Now almost all Jews have left India for Israel though. In August 2007, a delegation of Muslim scholars and Imams from India visited Israel as well as part of an interfaith exchange. And this wikipedia entry will be well worth the read to have an alternative perspective from actual Muslim religious scholars as well.

India–Israel relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


On any terrorist group we should have a clear policy of no attacks against civilians. While fighting between Israeli army and Lebanese army/Hezbullah fighters which is usually what happens on the other hand is a different ball game. But if Hezbullah, tries to attack diplomats in India as some people are speculating (and Hezbollah has denied I might add), then that is categorically a red line which should not be crossed. Same applies in the case of Israeli civilians being attacked. If we are going to criticize the indiscriminate bombings of Israel that killed Lebanese civilians, then we should certainly criticize Hezbullah attacks on Israeli civilians.

LeT on the other hand does not try to fight Indian army officials at all and deliberately targets only civilians including Kashmir Muslims who oppose them, neither has the Indian army occupying parts of Pakistan.

 

[ejazr]

if i was an israeli i wouldn't negotiate with palestine! what have palestine got to offer that israel cant take itself ?

I would agree with you on this. Israel has no real incentive to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza completely and create a Palestinian state. But at least with the 2002 Arab initiative, there are added benefits of full diplomatic recognition with the Arab and the larger muslim world as well.
The other thing that many progressive Israelis and Jewish diaspora realise is the demographics. In the historic Palestine region, there is only a 15-20 year time period before the Christian and Muslim Arab populations become a majority. Once that happens, it would be better for Palestinians to say that we don't want an independent state. We will remain within Israel but we want to be treated as equal citizens with equal voting rights. It would be similar to movement by Nelson Mandela in South Africa against apartheid and would be devastating for the Jewish identity of Israel when we have a single state solution with Jews and Palestinans with equal voting rights.

So even with Israeli interests and well wishers in mind and given the above two incentives, it would be in the best interests of Israel herself to establish a Palestinian state before the demographics make it impossible to do so.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Ejaz,

Thanks for the reply, quite helpful in getting a hang of things there.

When I said, a statement in favour of Kashmir, I meant a statement which favoured the Indian stand. Now it makes me recall that because Pakistanis back then were very agitated and were cursing Hezbollah for the statement made. Was it only limited to India or it included Kashmir as well, I dont quite recall.

I, at least, remain a very strong advocate of we maintaining strong relations where we have had traditional relations, during the cold war days, or much earlier and simultaneously develop friendlier ties in newer territories, and balance them out and not get caught in the politics of taking sides as some countries want us to, certainly not till the time when we have no other option but to take a pick.

Talking about our foreign policy, one thing stands out for UPA, much like NDA, they have done well on the front.

Why this picture came out, well, wont be surprised if it has to do with the recent blast in delhi targeting the Israeli diplomat's wife, and the media campaign since.

 

[Ray]

As far as the Israeli Palestine issue, they have to agree to the two Nation theory or perish!

 

[KS]

If you read my post you will see that Hizbullah is apolitical party in southern Lebanon. And GoI even invited Hezbollah spokesperson to India in 2007.

Yeah its a political party with an armed militia that has been involved in numerous cases of terrorist acts, suicide bombings against Israeli civilians. By that logic you can say JuD is a charity group.

And it was stupid of the Indian Govt to send a representative to meet them even if one part of them is a legitimate political group.

How would you feel if some foreign country sent a representative to meet Syed Salahuddin and pledged solidarity with him ? I, for one, would be pissed off.