How will IA perform in urban combat

JBH22

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They will perform very well -
the plot- indian army special ops group receives inputs about possible meeting taking place b/w terror operatives & orders are to capture them alive . Special forces will insert into the area from MI17, create a secure perimeter byputting down any threat that comes on way then signal to regular infantry to move in by land transport the prisoners on TATRA 8x8 trucks & BMP while LCH provides air cover .

Weaponry & logistics- indian army special forces weapons includes - NVG,Tar21 5.56mm ,Galial sniper rifle,carlgustav 84mm RCL gun ,TATRA8x8 trucks for carrying IA infantry troops & prisoners ,BMP APC to provide protection to trucks, windy500 4x4 or mahindra rakash jeeps mounted with Heavy machine gun's , LCH/hind gunship to provide air cover ,MI17 for special forces insertion .

This is more a Black Hawk down movie style raid, the purpose of this thread is to assess the IA capability to take on a city
 

Galaxy

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Yeah that's why IA failed to capture Nithaykayakulam reservoir bunt for months of effort! in 1990 from LTTE

BTW SL commando unit captured it within weeks.
Sorry, Don't know about that specific operation but eventually IA was successful in destroying LTTE till certain extent.

You must have faced the music for 3 decades ? That shows your jungle warfare ability. :lol: Once you failed very badly for very long time, Sri Lankan army killed 20,000's of innocent Tamil civilians and involved in worst kind of genocide and you call it specialist in Jungle warfare ? :rolleyes: Even your Armed forces personnel come to India for training and you posting this crap. Height of comedy. :rofl:

For Indian Army Jungle warfare capability, You are free to start a thread but kindly don't bring your inferiority complex and Tamil issue in every thread.
 

JBH22

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what the fvck guys y sticking to SL issue let's get back on topic do not spoil this thread
 

Bhadra

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Militia forces weapons includes -:rolleyes:AK74's ,AKU ,RPG ,HMG mounted on suv's
Which is the militia in India? You mean to say Naxals and terrorists?

What happened in Blue Star?
 

W.G.Ewald

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Not too well, those are the worst type of situations soldiers can find themselves in.
Mogadishu is regarded by the Yanks as a disaster, and the soldiers who fought in Somalia were the cream of the US Army.
We need to invest more in our infantry's training and equipment, because I'm not sure we'd rate even a 2 out of 10 in these fields.
What IA should learn from US Army in Somalia is not to go there or any place like it.
 

Kunal Biswas

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lets assume IA in a mogadishu like situation. Our mbts cannot be used there as its too big. Our lsv,the gypsies will be useless as it is unarmoured. Please post ur expert views.kindly excuse my
Language as i am frm my cell phone



































If you haven't Noticed INDIAN ARMY fighting a CT war since 1948, Yes JAMMU AND KASHMIR..

The terrain Not Only gives Urban warfare but Jungle and high altitude so does plains..

Indian Army is 1st class in Urban warfare,
IA eat tangos three times a day as Routine..


More Pics here:
http://defenceforumindia.com/indian-army/24605-pictures-indian-forces-ct-operations.html

 

W.G.Ewald

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Battle of Monterrey, Mexico (1846)

Worth's men used pick axes to chip holes in the adobe walls of the homes, or sometimes in the roof of the house from where the soldiers could drop in. Or they used ladders to climb to the top of a rooftop and assault the Mexican defenders in hand to hand combat. The typical assault on a home would include one man who would run to the door of the house and chip the door away with a pick axe while under covering fire. Once the door showed signs of weakening, 3-4 other soldiers would run to the door and barge in with the revolvers blazing. Worth lost few men on the 23rd using these new urban warfare techniques.
Urban warfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Bhadra

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What IA should learn from US Army in Somalia is not to go there or any place like it.
IA in 1971 did not enter major towns and cities in East Pakistan but bypassed those and surrounded those from rear. Only dash to Dhaka was the final effort and entering it was necessary.

Wherever IA tried to enter towns they bought lots of Casualties like for the battle of Sylhet which was the first ever helicopter lift operation.
On India Pak border also, all cities will be initially bypassed by both the sides and cities will be cleared as follow on operation. That is evident from whatever appears in the press.

Battles for built up areas is one of the worst. SLA could not enter Jaffna even after tens years of efforts. They only carried out massive air and artillery bombardments.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Yeah that's why IA failed to capture Nithaykayakulam reservoir bunt for months of effort! in 1990 from LTTE

BTW SL commando unit captured it within weeks.
I am not saying SLA is not good enough, They are good at what they do..

Btw, IPKF was their coz SL wanted it on first place coz SLA was not that good back then, Also do not your SF and Army officers ( Infantry, aviation, Armor are trained in IMA, You can ask any SLA personal any-day..

If we came to hunt down LTTE today, We need hours if not days..



And keep out Offtopic, you are distracting, Ignore other if feel uncomfortable..
 

JBH22

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@ KUNAL the pictures are ok but it does not convince me the IA did not face a situation like Grozny or Fallujah i.e full intensity urban warfare
 

bhramos

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Sherpa LAV



Viper LAPV



this Vehicles could be used in Urban Warfare...
 

Kunal Biswas

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@ KUNAL the pictures are ok but it does not convince me the IA did not face a situation like Grozny or Fallujah i.e full intensity urban warfare
IA is good enough to not let happen accidents like Grozny or Fallujah..

If have read these Battles are Epic failures costing massive civilian causalities and properties, IA first priority is protection of civilians..




Btw, Operation Pawan was intense and ill planed, But IA kept low on destruction of civilian property..

Operation Pawan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Bhadra

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@ KUNAL the pictures are ok but it does not convince me the IA did not face a situation like Grozny or Fallujah i.e full intensity urban warfare
Indian Army fought a very typical Urban warfare for the capture of Jaffna which it had to enter from five sides. LTTE gave fierce fight at many placed like Urumpuria, Achuvalley, Paranthan, Kondavil, Vadamarachi etc in spite of being a terrorist outfit. Almost three divisions had to be employed to take over entire Jaffna and almost one division to hold it subsequently.

Large forces were used to capture Vavuniya, Trincomalee and Batticaloa. All those towns were handed over on platter to Sri Lankan Army when IPKF left. They then made a dash to jungles in the final stages which was also handed over to them by IPKF.

Otherwise, they could not cross Elephant pass for 15 years.
 

Galaxy

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I don't think our Army will face Somalia like situation in India.

There could be 4 possibilities.

1> Internal security - We have around 600,000 personnel in CRPF, RAF, NSG, CISF and some special forces for any Insurgency, Terrorist attack on civilian or Industry, Riot or anything like Civil war. These all are well trained and capable for any such threat. Army will come only in 2nd phase if things will be out of hand. Very unlikely, that such things will happen in India. Terrorist attack & Insurgency/Maoist attack do happen in Kashmir and NE but we have few hundred thousand army personnel already deployed on permanent basis or base camp in near by areas. In addition, There are 1,00,00 RR and Assam rifles too beside Central armed police forces.

2> Situation in any other country where IA will face such thing. That also unlikely as we never interfere in other countries internal issues. SL was one of the rare situation and it was not good for us. We don't send our troops to any countries to control the situation except UN (where 50 countries send some troops)

3> We invade/attack any neighbour countries cities. For China, Not possible as our defence capability is not offensive as of now. It's mainly to defend ourself and we are well prepared too. If China attacks India, then also highly unlikely that we will face such situation as there is no major cities nearby border. In Leh, Gangtok, Tawang (A.P.), Uttrakhand-Tibet border all are mountain ranges with no major cities. We have 3 dedicated corps with more than half are mountain specialist assigned for such region beside 75,000 ITBP and 10,000 scouts.

4> If Pakistan attacks India ? Again we have strong presence of our Army at border along with 1,00,000+ BSF personnel. There are very few cities at Indo-Pak border (Mostly in Punjab). Bhuj, Rajasthan don't have any cities till 100 Km+ from Pak border except few small cities which are fortress since 1947 only. In J&K, we have 2 corps permanently stationed. Even in Punjab, we have 2 corps. So, Practically not possible. If Pakistan indulge in any such offensive activity, then we can always send 21 corps, Ambala and Mathura corps for invasion !!

Only possibility is Our Army faces such things in Lahore, Gujranwala, Sialkot (Pakistan punjab). Pakistan Sindhe don't have any cities near by border except Karachi/Hyderabad which is 200 Km away from our border. As far as such Somalia like situation is only possible in Pakistan Punjab, Ironically, our Cold doctrine is based on that only. It's difficult to discuss the outcome but we have capability to enter those cities.
 

Bhadra

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I don't think our Army will face Somalia like situation in India.

There could be 4 possibilities.

1> Internal security - We have around 600,000 personnel in CRPF, RAF, NSG, CISF and some special forces for any Insurgency, Terrorist attack on civilian or Industry, Riot or anything like Civil war. These all are well trained and capable for any such threat. Army will come only in 2nd phase if things will be out of hand. Very unlikely, that such things will happen in India. Terrorist attack & Insurgency/Maoist attack do happen in Kashmir and NE but we have few hundred thousand army personnel already deployed on permanent basis or base camp in near by areas. In addition, There are 1,00,00 RR and Assam rifles too beside Central armed police forces.

2> Situation in any other country where IA will face such thing. That also unlikely as we never interfere in other countries internal issues. SL was one of the rare situation and it was not good for us. We don't send our troops to any countries to control the situation except UN (where 50 countries send some troops)

3> We invade/attack any neighbour countries cities. For China, Not possible as our defence capability is not offensive as of now. It's mainly to defend ourself and we are well prepared too. If China attacks India, then also highly unlikely that we will face such situation as there is no major cities nearby border. In Leh, Gangtok, Tawang (A.P.), Uttrakhand-Tibet border all are mountain ranges with no major cities. We have 3 dedicated corps with more than half are mountain specialist assigned for such region beside 75,000 ITBP and 10,000 scouts.

4> If Pakistan attacks India ? Again we have strong presence of our Army at border along with 1,00,000+ BSF personnel. There are very few cities at Indo-Pak border (Mostly in Punjab). Bhuj, Rajasthan don't have any cities till 100 Km+ from Pak border except few small cities which are fortress since 1947 only. In J&K, we have 2 corps permanently stationed. Even in Punjab, we have 2 corps. So, Practically not possible. If Pakistan indulge in any such offensive activity, then we can always send 21 corps, Ambala and Mathura corps for invasion !!

Only possibility is Our Army faces such things in Lahore, Gujranwala, Sialkot (Pakistan punjab). Pakistan Sindhe don't have any cities near by border except Karachi/Hyderabad which is 200 Km away from our border. As far as such Somalia like situation is only possible in Pakistan Punjab, Ironically, our Cold doctrine is based on that only. It's difficult to discuss the outcome but we have capability to enter those cities.

Good. Keep your powder dry.
India today is under transformation, politically, economically and militarily.
Under futuristic scenarios, India has to shoulder its responsibilities as a stabilising force in the region and outside the region. India can not shy it away being a bigger and responsible country.

India has to be prepared for larger roles in out of area contingencies including humanitarian relief besides helping out their neighbours. Hence dealing with cities for various contingencies is a real possibility. IA thus has to remain prepared for all types of Urban situation including balst of nucs by Jehadi terrorist inside or outside Pakistani cities.

If Dhaka or Jaffna or Kathmandu is under seize and their govt ask Indian help, IA can not say "ask American or Chinese to sort out your problem as you do not know urban warfare !"

Responsibilities of Armed Forces is much varied and substantial than the police forces. Even our CPOs have to be prepared for contingencies.
 

Ray

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No army would like to get involved in Urban warfare.

There are techniques and weaponry to combat such a situation, but it 'eats' up troops and is a huge task, leaving little to pursue the main task.

They would prefer to bypass and only isolate.
 

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