How USSR prevented a joint US-UK attack on India in 1971

[I_PLAY_BAD]

Replaced logic with rhetoric now!!

Yeah if you only read this statement it may sound like a rhetoric. Read the full article, my previous replies, understand the context asked mix all things the USA had done for the past few decades. You will start puking at the Americans.

USA is equivalent to Lannisters in Game of Thrones.

 

[Capricorn]

This event became the catalyst for the Indian nuclear weapons program. Smiling Buddha was successfully tested in 1974.

Two events were significant which led to the Indian Nuclear programme

The Defeat in 1962

The presence of the 7th fleet in the Bay of Bengal in 71

 

[I_PLAY_BAD]

Replaced logic with rhetoric now!!

That statement might sound like a rhetoric but see the larger picture. Look at how the USA had messed up with many nations. Eg: Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Ussr.

USA is like the Lannisters from Game of Thrones. They do anything for their interests.

 

[A chauhan]

I have read about this incident but didn't know that Nixon & Kissinger were using that abusive language !! ??

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Actually, what @I_PLAY_BAD said is not rhetoric, but fact and logical. US is the only democratic country which has been systematically destroying democracies all over the world and supporting despots, and claiming to be spreading democracy. If that is not double faced, I don't know what is. There're many more instances which proves what @I_PLAY_BAD 's point. Once I get back to my PC, I will give you a detail logical view of how much of a traitorous piece of $hit the whole USA regimes from the days after the WWII have been proven to be.

Weren't we discussing double faced in the context of this article?

 

[jackprince]

Weren't we discussing double faced in the context of this article?

Actually no. My first comment was an overall observation, including this incident. However, in this issue also, the double-faced attitude was evident. The US of A, from the days of WWII projected itself in the media, err propaganda, as the saviour of democracy and humanity, and they have vilified Soviets on the ground of the same. However, we know what happened when the its own diplomat could not ignore the atrocities of Napak army on the bengalis after bengalis democratically elected Mujiboor Rehnan and sent mail to Washington detailing the same. The leadership of the world's so called biggest effing democracy shut the diplomat out, ruined his career and did nothing. A single phone call from the Washington could have prevented millions of death. Yeah, USA is doublefaced traitorous hypocrite who can never be trusted.

 

[Yumdoot]

I have read about this incident but didn't know that Nixon & Kissinger were using that abusive language !! ??

Hame kaun in saalon ko choomna hai. And those of us who want to kiss them are not going seek permission before kissing the ground these people walk.

Abusing is hardly the point. The sore looser, admitting to his reality, is the real part to figure these people out (from the same report):

Another telephone conversation between the scheming duo reveals a lot about the mindset of those at the highest echelons of American decision making:

Kissinger: And the point you made yesterday, we have to continue to squeeze the Indians even when this thing is settled.

Nixon: We've got to for rehabilitation. I mean, Jesus Christ, they've bombed—I want all the war damage; I want to help Pakistan on the war damage in Karachi and other areas, see?

Kissinger: Yeah

Nixon: I don't want the Indians to be happy. I want a public relations programme developed to piss on the Indians.

Kissinger: Yeah.

Nixon: I want to piss on them for their responsibility. Get a white paper out. Put down, White paper. White paper. Understand that?

Kissinger: Oh, yeah.

Nixon: I don't mean for just your reading. But a white paper on this.

Kissinger: No, no. I know.

Nixon: I want the Indians blamed for this, you know what I mean? We can't let these goddamn, sanctimonious Indians get away with this. They've pissed on us on Vietnam for 5 years, Henry.

Kissinger: Yeah.

Nixon: Aren't the Indians killing a lot of these people?

Kissinger: Well, we don't know the facts yet. But I'm sure they're not as stupid as the West Pakistanis—they don't let the press in. The idiot Paks have the press all over their place.

Note how these guys are convinced that the Indian action in Bangladesh is exactly like the US action in Vietnam.

Note also that their messiah of foreign policy thinking and tanking, wants to continue to squeeze us Indians even when this thing is settled. And yet the fanboys continue on completely unmindful that, that thing has not been settled till date.

And the mechanism for that looser's revenge is by way of a public relations programme developed to piss on us Indians. Which obviously implies anything and everything we try to take up as a national project. It has continued till date. On the other thread about Amogha-1 ATGM, I was waiting for the fanboys to mention their Javeline waghera (a sweet poison for our national projects). Alas they never came. Have you ever wondered who seeds the discussions on the various fora about these weapons deals and how they control everything from behind the scene.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Actually, what @I_PLAY_BAD said is not rhetoric, but fact and logical. US is the only democratic country which has been systematically destroying democracies all over the world and supporting despots, and claiming to be spreading democracy. If that is not double faced, I don't know what is. There're many more instances which proves what @I_PLAY_BAD 's point. Once I get back to my PC, I will give you a detail logical view of how much of a traitorous piece of $hit the whole USA regimes from the days after the WWII have been proven to be.

That way India too was double-faced. Non-aligned to the world and kissed Soviet ass behind closed doors.

 

[Yumdoot]

Kya kissed Soviet Ass. What did Soviets get out of us?

During those times that is.

Afterwards post 91 both the Soviet investments in China and India paid them reasonably. And having gained from these relationships the Soviet successors, ie. the Russians have continued the policy of supporting both the Chinese and the Indians. Which makes sense if we see it from their POV.

From our POV too we have gained the new found friendship of US only because the Americans know that we Indians and Chinese have options.

US allies, those that had abandoned their 'options' for the so called, US led alignment of interests, ended up giving up their interests completely and unequivocally. Ask the guys next door, if you have doubts.

I wonder why Pakis on this forum never talk about what they got out of their alignment-of-pragmatic-national-interests with the US . Bolo yaar, kya mila?

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Kya kissed Soviet Ass. What did Soviets get out of us?

During those times that is.

Afterwards post 91 both the Soviet investments in China and India paid them reasonably. And having gained from these relationships the Soviet successors, ie. the Russians have continued the policy of supporting both the Chinese and the Indians. Which makes sense if we see it from their POV.

From our POV too we have gained the new found friendship of US only because the Americans know that we Indians and Chinese have options.

US allies, those that had abandoned their 'options' for the so called, US led alignment of interests, ended up giving up their interests completely and unequivocally. Ask the guys next door, if you have doubts.

I wonder why Pakis on this forum never talk about what they got out of their alignment-of-pragmatic-national-interests with the US . Bolo yaar, kya mila?

Forgot Tashkent in the context of 1965. We lost our PM and Hajipir.

 

[Yumdoot]

Forgot Tashkent in the context of 1965. We lost our PM and Hajipir.

About the PM.....well what can we say........apparently the GoI thinks that releasing information on the death of LBS, "could lead to harming of foreign relations, cause disruption in the country and cause breach of parliamentary privileges".

I don't care much for Hajipir. We Indian have lost so much that was rightfully ours that a few more losses do not make much difference. But LBS is somebody I have a lot of respect for. LBS and many other leaders. Part of the reason why I keep my gaze on those who have tried to damage us.

 

[Mad Indian]

About the PM.....well what can we say........apparently the GoI thinks that releasing information on the death of LBS, "could lead to harming of foreign relations, cause disruption in the country and cause breach of parliamentary privileges".

That's another way of admitting Indians are pussies.

I don't care much for Hajipir. We Indian have lost so much that was rightfully ours that a few more losses do not make much difference. But LBS is somebody I have a lot of respect for. LBS and many other leaders. Part of the reason why I keep my gaze on those who have tried to damage us.

Yeah, why not lose more land. Typical Indian loser attitude.

I don't know when this is going to change.

On top of that, we waste no time in patting ourselves in the back on useless things.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

That's another way of admitting Indians are pussies.


Yeah, why not lose more land. Typical Indian loser attitude.

I don't know when this is going to change.

On top of that, we waste no time in patting ourselves in the back on useless things.

Hajipir should have been retained like strategic heights in Siachen glacier. But thanks to USSR, we now take a 200km detour to connect Poonch and Uri!!

 

[Yumdoot]

@Mad Indian
Yeh its ok, we Indians are shanti-priya people. We keep only 100 Nukes in disassembled state, don't have no desire to beat the world. Look even no olympic golds either.

But you have some real spine and your heart seems filled with pride for your country. You go and do something radical, something krantikaari. You have full support from my side .



@Sakal Gharelu Ustad
But come on if the USSR alone was to blame for the Haji Pir then why did not the IA and Indian political leadership, try to wrangle again for it in 1971?

Putting the Haji Pir loss solely on the doorsteps of Soviets. Well I can speak only for myself and I don't find that convincing enough. Seems like an after thought, actually.

 

[Varahamihira]

The USSR was a valued friend, and its heir Russia is our natural ally.

Russia is anything but our natural ally.Remember Mitrokhin Archives.
I even go further and say no one is our natural ally.
Just play a balancing game and squeeze everything you need.
If our interests rest with this side then be with this side,if it doesn't go to the other side.

 

[Yumdoot]

Russia is anything but our natural ally.Remember Mitrokhin Archives.
I even go further and say no one is our natural ally.
Just play a balancing game and squeeze everything you need.
If our interests rest with this side then be with this side,if it doesn't go to the other side.

Vasili Mitrokhin defected to United States in 1992 I guess. Relying on him for Indian state of affairs would be like asking Sudheendra Kulkarni about the need for Modi to ensure a Congress Mukt Bharat.

Anyhow nothing really stops you from developing your own network inside the hierarchy of your allies. Networking is not restricted to allies and spying is not restricted to enemies. China spies on both US & Russia like anything and both Russians and Americans have allowed the Chinese to 'steal' away all the chinese needed. Pakis did only networking for pragmatic-national-interest and look what happened.

On the question of 'natural ally' I would venture to say, only Russia is our natural ally at the scale that we need. We have other natural allies too but most are too small to do us any good. Natural ally would I guess be one that:
1) cannot or would not basically be a drag on you; and
2) help you with a lot of your future needs; and
3) would be willing to negotiate about all the strategic needs; and
4) would experience threats from the same guy as you; and
5) has interest in growth of the same guys as you; and
6) cannot logically speaking ever attack you.
Did I miss things from this list?

 

[Mad Indian]

@Mad Indian

But you have some real spine and your heart seems filled with pride for your country. You go and do something radical, something krantikaari. You have full support from my side .

I do. thats why I voted for a nationalist party this time. If they turn out to be pussies too, I would vote in someone else with balls next time. thats how it works. That is the least that can be expected from the self respecting citizens of any country .

But hey, atleast I am not like the self respect lacking losers here, who pride themselves in losing lands despite winning wars

 

[Mad Indian]

Hajipir should have been retained like strategic heights in Siachen glacier. But thanks to USSR, we now take a 200km detour to connect Poonch and Uri!!

If India had aligned with USA in 1947, USSR would have aligned with Porkis with no second thoughts. Thats what they tried in 1965 too, .ie tried to play neutral to both Porkis and India. This is something the Russian fanboys would never admit...

 

[Varahamihira]

Vasili Mitrokhin defected to United States in 1992 I guess. Relying on him for Indian state of affairs would be like asking Sudheendra Kulkarni about the need for Modi to ensure a Congress Mukt Bharat.

Anyhow nothing really stops you from developing your own network inside the hierarchy of your allies. Networking is not restricted to allies and spying is not restricted to enemies. China spies on both US & Russia like anything and both Russians and Americans have allowed the Chinese to 'steal' away all the chinese needed. Pakis did only networking for pragmatic-national-interest and look what happened.

On the question of 'natural ally' I would venture to say, only Russia is our natural ally at the scale that we need. We have other natural allies too but most are too small to do us any good. Natural ally would I guess be one that:
1) cannot or would not basically be a drag on you; and
2) help you with a lot of your future needs; and
3) would be willing to negotiate about all the strategic needs; and
4) would experience threats from the same guy as you; and
5) has interest in growth of the same guys as you; and
6) cannot logically speaking ever attack you.
Did I miss things from this list?

There is no such thing as natural ally.
India was a vassal state of USSR.India was so dependent on them that till USSR broke down we haven't implemented economic reforms.We almost collapsed.Thanks to Apara Chanakya PVNR and his team for economic reforms or else other countries would have been milking us like the Russians did.
Use everyone for India's development,let them dance around us to please us.Just sit down and watch them come with pleasantries.This is what India should do.

 

[Yumdoot]

I do. thats why I voted for a nationalist party this time. If they turn out to be pussies too, I would vote in someone else with balls next time. thats how it works.

Like who Rahul or Kejri.

If India had aligned with USA in 1947, USSR would have aligned with Porkis with no second thoughts. Thats what they tried in 1965 too, .ie tried to play neutral to both Porkis and India. This is something the Russian fanboys would never admit...

Prior to 69 India was virtually an undeclared ally of the West. And was barely better treated than Pakis.

India during those times went to the west for everything. Like hell - Everything means everything. Got kicked in the ass for everything - Subs, nukes, planes, guns, food, oil, strategic security. And got kicked the door at its face nearly every time. And on top of that the Soviets really pulled all stops for nearly all of those things. Nehru was a western plant and he died a heart broken man.

Actually the Pakis were since Jinnah days very keen on having the benefits of lying at the crossroads in Asia. Jinnah imagined, every country would be willing to deal with the Pakis because of the strategic location of Pakistan between a west dominated India and Russians to the north. He probably thought that the Pakis would be a king maker in the region even if they would not be the king themselves. IOW even the Pakis realized that India was dominated by the west.

There is no such thing as natural ally.
India was a vassal state of USSR.India was so dependent on them that till USSR broke down we haven't implemented economic reforms.We almost collapsed.Thanks to Apara Chanakya PVNR and his team for economic reforms or else other countries would have been milking us like the Russians did.
Use everyone for India's development,let them dance around us to please us.Just sit down and watch them come with pleasantries.This is what India should do.

I cannot make up my mind if anybody can be a natural ally. Being a conservative man I just pick my own self as my best ally.

But you are perhaps forgetting that Bangabandu was killed with his family on August 15, 1975. And the fact that the Americans were meddling in south-east asia (right flank of Akand Bharat) till well into the 90s. So you know who sent that message and who controlled the things around these parts. The Naxals came in supported by the Chinese, who had in 69 had their own coming out party, thanks to Nixon. Bhai sahab, you probably need to re-assess what difficulties the unknown soldiers really have faced.

It is somewhat sad to see that you don't actually think much of India. I seriously doubt if we ever acted like Vassals. Even when India was contributing foot soldiers for the wars that the Raj fought around the world, we had enough people within the armed forces who knew which side their loyalty lay. But I guess its par for the course since sadder still is, how again that same situation of contributing foot soldiers is seen as advanced thing to do.

Good thing is you remember PVNR. But how can you forget that the same PVNR tried his level best to keep the west out of Indian economy. IMF those days used to prescribe a hundred solutions to India. All of which were simply allowed to rot by that wily man. OTOH the Russians ended up following that very 'shock therapy' prescriptions and ended up nearly dead. Chinese too have done their level best to keep the west out of their local economies. They probably understood PVNR better.