How USSR prevented a joint US-UK attack on India in 1971

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by I_PLAY_BAD, Sep 17, 2015.

  1. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    Yeah if you only read this statement it may sound like a rhetoric. Read the full article, my previous replies, understand the context asked mix all things the USA had done for the past few decades. You will start puking at the Americans.

    USA is equivalent to Lannisters in Game of Thrones.
     
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  3. Capricorn

    Capricorn Regular Member

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    Two events were significant which led to the Indian Nuclear programme

    The Defeat in 1962

    The presence of the 7th fleet in the Bay of Bengal in 71
     
  4. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    That statement might sound like a rhetoric but see the larger picture. Look at how the USA had messed up with many nations. Eg: Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Ussr.

    USA is like the Lannisters from Game of Thrones. They do anything for their interests.
     
  5. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    I have read about this incident but didn't know that Nixon & Kissinger were using that abusive language !! ??
     
  6. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Weren't we discussing double faced in the context of this article?
     
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  7. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Actually no. My first comment was an overall observation, including this incident. However, in this issue also, the double-faced attitude was evident. The US of A, from the days of WWII projected itself in the media, err propaganda, as the saviour of democracy and humanity, and they have vilified Soviets on the ground of the same. However, we know what happened when the its own diplomat could not ignore the atrocities of Napak army on the bengalis after bengalis democratically elected Mujiboor Rehnan and sent mail to Washington detailing the same. The leadership of the world's so called biggest effing democracy shut the diplomat out, ruined his career and did nothing. A single phone call from the Washington could have prevented millions of death. Yeah, USA is doublefaced traitorous hypocrite who can never be trusted.
     
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  8. Yumdoot

    Yumdoot Regular Member

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    Hame kaun in saalon ko choomna hai. And those of us who want to kiss them are not going seek permission before kissing the ground these people walk.

    Abusing is hardly the point. The sore looser, admitting to his reality, is the real part to figure these people out (from the same report):
    Note how these guys are convinced that the Indian action in Bangladesh is exactly like the US action in Vietnam.

    Note also that their messiah of foreign policy thinking and tanking, wants to continue to squeeze us Indians even when this thing is settled. And yet the fanboys continue on completely unmindful that, that thing has not been settled till date.

    And the mechanism for that looser's revenge is by way of a public relations programme developed to piss on us Indians. Which obviously implies anything and everything we try to take up as a national project. It has continued till date. On the other thread about Amogha-1 ATGM, I was waiting for the fanboys to mention their Javeline waghera (a sweet poison for our national projects). Alas they never came. Have you ever wondered who seeds the discussions on the various fora about these weapons deals and how they control everything from behind the scene.
     
  9. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    That way India too was double-faced. Non-aligned to the world and kissed Soviet ass behind closed doors.
     
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  10. Yumdoot

    Yumdoot Regular Member

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    Kya kissed Soviet Ass. What did Soviets get out of us?

    During those times that is.

    Afterwards post 91 both the Soviet investments in China and India paid them reasonably. And having gained from these relationships the Soviet successors, ie. the Russians have continued the policy of supporting both the Chinese and the Indians. Which makes sense if we see it from their POV.

    From our POV too we have gained the new found friendship of US only because the Americans know that we Indians and Chinese have options.

    US allies, those that had abandoned their 'options' for the so called, US led alignment of interests, ended up giving up their interests completely and unequivocally. Ask the guys next door, if you have doubts.

    I wonder why Pakis on this forum never talk about what they got out of their alignment-of-pragmatic-national-interests with the US :p. Bolo yaar, kya mila?
     
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  11. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Forgot Tashkent in the context of 1965. We lost our PM and Hajipir.
     
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  12. Yumdoot

    Yumdoot Regular Member

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    About the PM.....well what can we say........apparently the GoI thinks that releasing information on the death of LBS, "could lead to harming of foreign relations, cause disruption in the country and cause breach of parliamentary privileges".

    I don't care much for Hajipir. We Indian have lost so much that was rightfully ours that a few more losses do not make much difference. But LBS is somebody I have a lot of respect for. LBS and many other leaders. Part of the reason why I keep my gaze on those who have tried to damage us.
     
  13. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    That's another way of admitting Indians are pussies.

    Yeah, why not lose more land. Typical Indian loser attitude.

    I don't know when this is going to change.

    On top of that, we waste no time in patting ourselves in the back on useless things.
     
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  14. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Hajipir should have been retained like strategic heights in Siachen glacier. But thanks to USSR, we now take a 200km detour to connect Poonch and Uri!!
     
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  15. Yumdoot

    Yumdoot Regular Member

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    @Mad Indian
    Yeh its ok, we Indians are shanti-priya people. We keep only 100 Nukes in disassembled state, don't have no desire to beat the world. Look even no olympic golds either.

    But you have some real spine and your heart seems filled with pride for your country. You go and do something radical, something krantikaari. You have full support from my side :devil:.



    @Sakal Gharelu Ustad
    But come on if the USSR alone was to blame for the Haji Pir then why did not the IA and Indian political leadership, try to wrangle again for it in 1971?

    Putting the Haji Pir loss solely on the doorsteps of Soviets. Well I can speak only for myself and I don't find that convincing enough. Seems like an after thought, actually.
     
  16. Varahamihira

    Varahamihira Regular Member

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    Russia is anything but our natural ally.Remember Mitrokhin Archives.
    I even go further and say no one is our natural ally.
    Just play a balancing game and squeeze everything you need.
    If our interests rest with this side then be with this side,if it doesn't go to the other side.
     
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  17. Yumdoot

    Yumdoot Regular Member

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    Vasili Mitrokhin defected to United States in 1992 I guess. Relying on him for Indian state of affairs would be like asking Sudheendra Kulkarni about the need for Modi to ensure a Congress Mukt Bharat.

    Anyhow nothing really stops you from developing your own network inside the hierarchy of your allies. Networking is not restricted to allies and spying is not restricted to enemies. China spies on both US & Russia like anything and both Russians and Americans have allowed the Chinese to 'steal' away all the chinese needed. Pakis did only networking for pragmatic-national-interest and look what happened.

    On the question of 'natural ally' I would venture to say, only Russia is our natural ally at the scale that we need. We have other natural allies too but most are too small to do us any good. Natural ally would I guess be one that:
    1) cannot or would not basically be a drag on you; and
    2) help you with a lot of your future needs; and
    3) would be willing to negotiate about all the strategic needs; and
    4) would experience threats from the same guy as you; and
    5) has interest in growth of the same guys as you; and
    6) cannot logically speaking ever attack you.
    Did I miss things from this list?
     
  18. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    I do. thats why I voted for a nationalist party this time. If they turn out to be pussies too, I would vote in someone else with balls next time. thats how it works. That is the least that can be expected from the self respecting citizens of any country .

    But hey, atleast I am not like the self respect lacking losers here, who pride themselves in losing lands despite winning wars:rolleyes:
     
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  19. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    If India had aligned with USA in 1947, USSR would have aligned with Porkis with no second thoughts. Thats what they tried in 1965 too, .ie tried to play neutral to both Porkis and India. This is something the Russian fanboys would never admit...
     
  20. Varahamihira

    Varahamihira Regular Member

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    There is no such thing as natural ally.
    India was a vassal state of USSR.India was so dependent on them that till USSR broke down we haven't implemented economic reforms.We almost collapsed.Thanks to Apara Chanakya PVNR and his team for economic reforms or else other countries would have been milking us like the Russians did.
    Use everyone for India's development,let them dance around us to please us.Just sit down and watch them come with pleasantries.This is what India should do.
     
  21. Yumdoot

    Yumdoot Regular Member

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    Like who Rahul or Kejri. :p


    Prior to 69 India was virtually an undeclared ally of the West. And was barely better treated than Pakis.

    India during those times went to the west for everything. Like hell - Everything means everything. Got kicked in the ass for everything - Subs, nukes, planes, guns, food, oil, strategic security. And got kicked the door at its face nearly every time. And on top of that the Soviets really pulled all stops for nearly all of those things. Nehru was a western plant and he died a heart broken man.

    Actually the Pakis were since Jinnah days very keen on having the benefits of lying at the crossroads in Asia. Jinnah imagined, every country would be willing to deal with the Pakis because of the strategic location of Pakistan between a west dominated India and Russians to the north. He probably thought that the Pakis would be a king maker in the region even if they would not be the king themselves. IOW even the Pakis realized that India was dominated by the west.


    I cannot make up my mind if anybody can be a natural ally. Being a conservative man I just pick my own self as my best ally.

    But you are perhaps forgetting that Bangabandu was killed with his family on August 15, 1975. And the fact that the Americans were meddling in south-east asia (right flank of Akand Bharat) till well into the 90s. So you know who sent that message and who controlled the things around these parts. The Naxals came in supported by the Chinese, who had in 69 had their own coming out party, thanks to Nixon. Bhai sahab, you probably need to re-assess what difficulties the unknown soldiers really have faced.

    It is somewhat sad to see that you don't actually think much of India. I seriously doubt if we ever acted like Vassals. Even when India was contributing foot soldiers for the wars that the Raj fought around the world, we had enough people within the armed forces who knew which side their loyalty lay. But I guess its par for the course since sadder still is, how again that same situation of contributing foot soldiers is seen as advanced thing to do.

    Good thing is you remember PVNR. But how can you forget that the same PVNR tried his level best to keep the west out of Indian economy. IMF those days used to prescribe a hundred solutions to India. All of which were simply allowed to rot by that wily man. OTOH the Russians ended up following that very 'shock therapy' prescriptions and ended up nearly dead. Chinese too have done their level best to keep the west out of their local economies. They probably understood PVNR better.
     
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