How to Push Back against an Aggressive China: Enter the 'Quad'

Discussion in 'China' started by desicanuk, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. desicanuk

    desicanuk Regular Member

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    By James Jay Carafano, Ph.D.

    Face it. China is a problem. Nations across the Pacific and Asia are looking for constructive solutions. And that’s the promise of a Quad Dialogue—a forum for developing cooperative, synchronized policies among India, Australia, Japan and the United States.
    Start with the facts. China's economic policies are increasingly mercantilist. It is developing military capabilities to exclude others from operating in Asia. Beijing is no friend of democracy. From a Chinese perspective, all these initiatives might make sense: they are reconstructing a world that looks like the Middle Kingdom. The rest of the world, however, would probably prefer to live in the 21st century.
    China is going to be China. That's not going to change anytime soon. So unless the nations that have the power to punish bad behavior and take constructive steps, the neighborhood is going to get worse for everybody.
    It’s past time to do something positive.
    Interest in a four-way dialogue between India, Australia, Japan and the United States enjoyed a brief flurry of attention during the Bush administration. It quickly died, partly out of concern about antagonizing China. More fundamentally, there was no strong sense of common cause among the four powers.
    When Barack Obama took over the Oval Office, the administration placed its bet on the Asian Pivot, the idea that refocusing American military, economic and diplomatic attention on the region would be enough to balance China.
    Obama's pivot came up short. The crises in the Middle East and the Ukraine both showed that the United States cannot focus the preponderance of its power on Asia without engendering serious risk in other strategically important parts of the world. Further, as a practical matter, the pivot has had zero positive impact on China. Perhaps the best example of that is China's policy toward Hong Kong. Beijing has pretty much cast aside its commitments to honor the Basic Law that protected Hong Kong's status, and China doesn't seem to care what the United States or any other country thinks about that.
    When it comes to working with China, Mr. Obama has hit a dead end. Meanwhile, recognition is growing in the capitals of India, Australia and Japan that there is common cause in addressing how China elbows its neighbors. Further, the nations of the Quad now instinctively share a common vision. Determining the future of Asia is not the birthright of any nation—least of all China.
    If Asia wants to give peace a chance—it could be time to give the Quad another chance.
    The Quad foundered last time before there was any coherent expression of what it should be. Part of bringing the Quad back will require a foundation of principles to get the dialogue off the ground.
    First, the dialogue should focus exclusively on two issues—ensuring the freedom of the commons (air, seas, space and cyberspace) and establishing a common approach to resolving territorial disputes. Freedom of the commons and the peaceful resolution of territorial claims are the grease that can best keep the friction caused by China's expectations in check.
    Second, the dialogue ought to remain a dialogue. There is no need for a formal strategy. Containing China and balancing China, for example, are wasteful and unproductive notions. Nor is there any need for all the baggage of a formal alliance. The Quad will happen if the four countries can view China from a common perspective. That is enough to make it work. If they can't, then this project doesn't have a prayer in the first place.
    Third, the Quad dialogue shouldn't act like an exclusive club. The goal of the Quad is that all peaceable nations of Asia are equal, with the right to chart their own course without being dictated to by any overlord. There are many forums for dialogue and cooperation in Asia. The Quad should complement, not subvert or replace them. Remaining active and constructive participants in all these venues is part of what makes the Quad valuable.
    Fourth, the objective of the Quad is simple: to promote a sustainable, liberal order that makes sense, that does not advantage some nations at the expense of others. Creating such a system, however, is not an end to itself. Relationships built on fair dealing and international norms serve little purpose unless the relationships also assure remedial action when bad actors don't play by the rules. That's the job of the Quad: to cry foul when China doesn't play fair and do something about it.
    Fifth, the Quad works only if its members are voices worth listening to. Each nation has to remain a net-provider of free-market economic growth, free and open civil society and responsible security.
    Sixth, be prepared to argue with China. Beijing will take every opportunity to paint the Quad as a threat to China. The Quad has to be prepared to defend itself and its actions. In this way, it will earn Beijing’s grudging respect. If the Quad doesn't stand behind what it says, there is little chance China will give it any more respect than Obama's pivot.


    - James Jay Carafano is Vice President for the Davis Institute for National Security and Foreign Policy.
    How to Push Back against an Aggressive China: Enter the 'Quad'
     
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  3. sachin458377

    sachin458377 Regular Member

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    India can build a strategic assets by raising a gorilla war team comprising of aspiring Tibetans and urguirs. They can be trained , armed and effectively utilized to counter china. The infrastructure that chinese have build in tibet and across Arunachal can be severely damaged using these teams effectively, what we cant do even by aerial bombing. The only this is the government action on such a plan
     
  4. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Your government has done that long time ago with Tibetan gorilla, but failed to archive any meaningful result.
    If your government can do it again, obviously there is no reason to believe that Chinese government can't do the same thing in India, after all there is plenty of insurgents who will be happy to work with any foreign aid.
     
  5. sachin458377

    sachin458377 Regular Member

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    Chinese government is already doing it in Yuan province and Mynmar. India has never tried in earlier times but i think its the right and high time to do it with full confidence.
     
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    It was the US which used the Khampa rebels in Tibet.

    The Indian Govt stopped that practice, in case you did not know.

    China is doing it to India for a long time by financing, training, arming and funding rebel groups and the Maoists and Naxals, but are making no headway.

    With this new Govt settling in, the Chinese evil hand in India will be gone forever.

    But one wonders what will be in store with the US India strategic partnership for China.

    China should get more involved in Afghanistan as it is planning and we will see some May Day fireworks warming the Chinese at the wrong end, as it has done to a very limited extent in Baluchistan.
     
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  7. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Oh, really?
    How come those Tibetan insurgents captured in 1960s-1970s told PLA that they were coming from Dharamsala and lots of them were trained by India military officers.
    All these stoped when Americans pulled it off.

    Oh, really?
    So far India government failed to put up any evidence to support this. Maybe you know something that your government doesn't know.
     
  8. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    1) asean nations have to get serious about china and join usa in military alliance
    ccpland has to be branded as saddamland was

    2) india has to develop more indigenous arms to increase quantity
    and has to develop tejas mk 2 in less than 15 years and it is possible even
    though tejas mk1 took 35 yrs and still there are loose ends ...so india has to
    look in own departments and improve -

    3) sure, there are other measures but i am absolutely
    sure that just those 2 are more than enough such that ccpland cant do a thing

    hence it is well with our capability - the issues lie in our own houses rather than
    with ccpland capability.
     
  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    By 1957, Kham was in chaos. People's Liberation Army reprisals against Khampa resistance fighters such as the Chushi Gangdruk became increasingly brutal. Reportedly, they included beatings, starving prisoners, and the rape of prisoners' wives in front of them until they confessed. Monks and nuns were forced to have sex with each other and forcibly renounce their celibacy vows. After torture, these men and women were often killed.[4] By the late 1950s Tibetan rebels numbered in the tens of thousands.[5] Kham's monastic networks came to be used by guerilla forces to relay messages and hide rebels.[6] Punitive strikes were carried out by the Chinese government against Tibetan villages and monasteries. Tibetan exiles assert that threats to bomb the Potala Palace and the Dalai Lama were made by Chinese military commanders in an attempt to intimidate the guerrilla forces into submission.[7]

    Lhasa continued to abide by the seventeen point agreement and sent a delegation to Kham to quell the rebellion. After speaking with the rebel leaders, the delegation instead joined the rebellion.[8] Kham leaders contacted the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), but the CIA under President Dwight D. Eisenhower insisted it required an official request from Lhasa to support the rebels. Lhasa did not act.[8] Eventually the CIA began to provide covert support for the rebellion without word from Lhasa. By then the rebellion had spread to Lhasa which had filled with refugees from Amdo and Kham.[5] Opposition to the Chinese presence in Tibet grew within the city of Lhasa.

    In mid-February 1959 the CCP Central Committee’s Administrative Office circulated the Xinhua News Agency internal report on how “the revolts in the Tibetan region have gathered pace and developed into a nearly full-scale rebellion.” in a “situation report” for top CCP leaders.[9] When Mao Zedong read it on 18 February, he commented:

    “The more chaotic [the situation] in Tibet becomes the better; for it will help train our troops and toughen the masses. Furthermore, [the chaos] will provide a sufficient reason to crush the rebellion and carry out reforms in the future.”[10]
    1959 Tibetan uprising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Tibetan told the PLA? You were there? Or as usual spreading your usual cock and bull to indicate a know it all attitude?

    There is adequate evidence and it is in the newspapers.

     
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  10. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    -----------------------------------------------
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  11. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    US,Ind&Jpn have some issues regarding China,so they form an assoc. What is Aussie doing here,not only join they are more enthusiastic about quad than Ind or Jpn.
    Any one has an idea why these assies so enthusiastic about "Contain China":namaste:
     
  12. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Special Frontier Force, India's secret army of Tibetans | Page 3
    The report didn't reveal is: many of these Tibetan soldiers from this force were sent to China in 1960s to fight Chinese.



    That is funny. India government didn't raise this question to Chinese but Indian media instead?
    Doesn't India government where Chinese ambassador was?

    'No evidence of Chinese support to insurgents and Maoists' - Indian Express
     
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  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Yes, there is the SFF and everybody knows about that.

    However, they have not been used in Tibet.

    The Special Frontier Force (SFF) was created on 14 November 1962, near the end of the Indo-China War. The Cabinet Secretariat had ordered the raising of an elite guerrilla force composed mainly of Tibetan refugees. It's main goal was to conduct covert operations behind Chinese lines in the event of another Indo-China war. The first Inspector General of the SFF was a retired Indian Army Major General who was known for his unconventional thinking. Soon the SFF came to be known as 'Establishment 22' due to its first Inspector General, who used to be commander of 22 Mountain Regiment during World War II.
    Bharat Rakshak :: Land Forces Site - SFF

    That the Chinese are assisting is another issue that is well known. However, true to Chinese style of polemics, they take the approach of using devious means wherein direct involvement is known, but difficult to pin down.

    Just like what they are doing in Myanmar North where the Myanmar Govt has imposed martial law in the Kokang region. Kokang is mostly populated by Kokang people, a Han Chinese group living in Burma. Kokang is a feudal state of Myanmar and was founded by the Yang clan, a Chinese military house that fled with the Ming loyalists from Nanjing to Yunnan Province in the mid-17th century and later migrated to the Shan State in eastern Burma.

    It was later controlled by the Burmese COMMUNIST Party and Communist China is now playing a role.

    I would not take Indian Express too seriously. They also felt that with a whole Div and two Brigades around Delhi, two obscure units from elsewhere was being 'moved' to carry out a 'coup' to topple the UPA Govt!

    The Chinese Ambassador, in true Communist Chinese style, live in isolated splendour in his citadel duly cocooned so that he is snug as a bug and safe from difficult questions if at all he is ready to face the media.

    Because they feel threatened by Communist China's aggressive pursuit of hegemony cloaked with dripping falsity of 'peaceful rise'.

    Today, upto Philippines and tomorrow?

    There is a huge Chinese population in Australia and Han are very clannish and parochial, apart from a natural cohesion towards Han supremacy over all. The concept of minzu, which refers to the Chinese nation, especially the dominant Han population, freed of all territorial attachments and defined in terms of race by transnational forces.

    With regards to the above minzu and its effect in Australia, you may like to see this

    The Globalization of Chinese Propaganda

    Read at Page 176 the actions of the Chinese Australians over the repression in Tibet. The Australians saw a connection between the actions of the Chinese Govt and the actions of the students of Chinese extract in Australia in their wild and aggressive agitation. Also read about the chaos the Chinese people did in South Korea on the same issue.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2015
    jus likes this.
  14. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Thanks @Ray sir, I always thought CCP is evil and ppl (Chinese) are like us,means same culture,civilization,religious connections etc.

    Overseas students/public of any nation gives what actually country is producing (Ex: Paki child grooming,riot gangs)

    If above is true,there is 100% chances of clashes between two great/oldest civilizations is inevitable :shocked:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  15. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Oh, really?

    Let's check this book:
    Insurgent Crossfire: North-East India - Subir Bhaumik

    From page 25:
    "B.N.MUllick, the legendary chief of the Indian Intelligence Bureau (IB) - widely described as "Nehru's Hoover" - admits that he was cleared by Prime Minister Nehru to "cultivate the Tibetan fighters" in 1955"

    Page 27:
    "Between 1956 an 1959 the level of US-Indian covert aid to the Tibetan resistance increased several-fold"

    "According to an estimate provided by senior ex-IB officials, there were about 50,000 trained fighers in the Tibetan resistance at its peak...India trained at least 50 percent of those who got formal training"

    Page 28:
    "by early 1959 here NVDA chieftains bad been drafted onto a top-secret tripartite committee, in which representatives of the IB and the US embassy (possibly working for the CIA) were included. The eight-member committee (with three Indian and two American intelligence officials in it) met every week at an IB rest-houose in New Delhi to deliberate on the course of Tibetan war...."

    https://books.google.com.au/books?i...ge&q=india support tibetan insurgency&f=false

    Sure, you won't take anything seriously if it doesn't match your taste.
     
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Subir Bhaumik is the BBC's Eastern India Correspondent based in Calcutta. He was a Queen Elizabeth House Fellow at Oxford University (1989-90) and is author of "Insurgent Crossfire", a definitive investigation on "proxy wars" of South Asia. He has worked for Time and Reuters, and before that for the Press Trust of India and the Calcutta-based Ananda Bazar Patrika. Subir has covered India's troubled North East and written extensively on Burma , Bhutan and Bangladesh. Many of his articles have been published in books edited by leading scholars and he has presented papers at seminars in India and abroad. He has just completed a book on North East India -- The Troubled Periphery - to be published by Penguin.

    It would be noteworthy is you took this seriously
    Check Page 95 of this Protracted Contest

    Do you take Epoch Times seriously. If you do, then you have a point
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015

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