How the USSR revealed its eye in the sky to the Indian Army

[H.A.]

India got a taste of the Russian sense of humour when it made a bid to acquire the Soviet Union's version of the AWACS

In these times of acrimony and scams, it was a pleasant diversion to read that to our existing fleet of three Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft, which keep an eye in the sky over our borders, we will shortly add three more. Air Chief Marshal N.A.K. Browne has said that by 2025, this inventory will comprise in all five AWACS and 10 AEW&CS (Airborne Early Warning & Control System); the latter with totally indigenously designed and manufactured electronic sensors and in the event the leanest and meanest machines of its class!

So at last, after 40 long years of striving, the Indian armed forces will have arguably the most potent battlefield, force-multiplier capability conceived and manufactured post-World War II.

The AWACS had caught the fancy of the world first in the early 1970s, when the re-structured Egyptian armed forces had launched the Yom Kippur offensive against Israel and achieved complete tactical and strategic surprise. The seemingly impregnable Bar-Lev defence line along the East Bank of the Suez Canal was breached decisively, and the invincible Israelis were almost routed. This was the moment when the AWACS made its maiden combat appearance to shore up the beleaguered Israelis in the Sinai desert. And the tide of battle was thereafter so decisively reversed that but for international pressure, the Israelis were within a whisker of capturing Cairo! All the post-war analyses were unanimous that all other factors apart, the application of AWACS had contributed decisively to the ultimate outcome of that war. Little wonder then that armed forces the world over were willing to pay any price to acquire these machines. But the Americans would not part with them. The Russians were desperate to close the gap with this military technology advancement made by the Americans but it was not till the 1980s that they inducted into service their first generation AWACS.

It was natural therefore that when in 1986 General K. Sunderji visited the Soviet Union, as it was then, as a state guest, that he would request his hosts for a look at the AWACS. The idea was to either buy a few of these aircraft outright or obtain them on lease on the lines of the nuclear-powered submarine. When the subject was broached with the Russian Defence Minister during the meeting in a glittering hall at the Kremlin, the Soviets used innocence and guile to convince us that they had never heard of AWACS, let alone possess them. At this stage I slipped a sketch of the American AWACS, photocopied from the Jane's Weapon Systems, to Gen. Sunderji.

That was the beginning of a serious proposition being turned into a hilarious game of bluff. The Defence Minister said with a straight face that in the spirit of the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, would we let them have the photocopy of the technical profile of the American AWACS. After a lengthy duel of mischievous wordplay, Gen. Sunderji agreed to part with the photocopy on the assurance of the Minister that it would remain a guarded secret! And that India would have the first AWACS produced in the Soviet Union.

Our weeklong visit ended at Tashkent. The penultimate day was taken up watching displays and demonstrations of training simulators of a whole range of weapons and automotives. On the last day, we were to relax watching an exclusive performance by the Bolshoi Ballet Company followed by the Uzbek folk dancers. Before we retired to our rooms, our liaison officer, a two-star general, mentioned that he had arranged a farewell picnic-breakfast the following morning. The picnic site was the 500-hectare State Lemon Farm about 60 km from Tashkent. Try as we might, there was no fathoming the reasons for this unscheduled picnic. And on one pretext or other our host would open yet another bottle of vintage wine, prolonging the breakfast till at last there was heard the approaching drone of an aircraft.

As the aircraft made low and deliberate, repeated passes over us, our host turned to Gen. Sunderji and said, "Sir, doesn't this resemble the photocopy of the American AWACS you showed us? Had you mentioned that you wanted to see our ASDACS (Acquisition and Strike Directing Aircraft System) we would have gladly flown you in it, all the way back to New Delhi!"

Gen. Sunderji laughed, reached out to a bottle of champagne on the table and raised a toast to the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Cooperation. But what we now have is neither AWACS nor the ASDACS but a hybrid comprising the American Phalcon radar manufactured by the Israelis and mounted by them on Russian IL-76 aircraft provided by us. Such are the games which the superpowers play with their client states.

(Baljit Singh is a retired Lieutenant General of the Indian Army.)

The Hindu : Opinion / Op-Ed : How the USSR revealed its eye in the sky to the Indian Army

 

[mikhail]

nice story!yeah it seems that the soviets made a mockery with us but we must not forget that it were the same soviet union which leases us our first nuclear sub INS CHAKRA(charlie class)!so whatever might be the reason behind this seemingly unnecessory soviet humor one can't deny the fact that they always backed us up in time of our needs and also provided us with many state of art weapons!

 

[sayareakd]

Since we dont have sticky thread of IAF AWACs i am posting this here

ndia got a taste of the Russian sense of humour when it made a bid to acquire the Soviet Union's version of the AWACS

In these times of acrimony and scams, it was a pleasant diversion to read that to our existing fleet of three Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft, which keep an eye in the sky over our borders, we will shortly add three more (The Hindu, September 21, 2012). Air Chief Marshal N.A.K. Browne has said that by 2025, this inventory will comprise in all five AWACS and 10 AEW&CS (Airborne Early Warning & Control System); the latter with totally indigenously designed and manufactured electronic sensors and in the event the leanest and meanest machines of its class!

So at last, after 40 long years of striving, the Indian armed forces will have arguably the most potent battlefield, force-multiplier capability conceived and manufactured post-World War II.

The AWACS had caught the fancy of the world first in the early 1970s, when the re-structured Egyptian armed forces had launched the Yom Kippur offensive against Israel and achieved complete tactical and strategic surprise. The seemingly impregnable Bar-Lev defence line along the East Bank of the Suez Canal was breached decisively, and the invincible Israelis were almost routed. This was the moment when the AWACS made its maiden combat appearance to shore up the beleaguered Israelis in the Sinai desert. And the tide of battle was thereafter so decisively reversed that but for international pressure, the Israelis were within a whisker of capturing Cairo! All the post-war analyses were unanimous that all other factors apart, the application of AWACS had contributed decisively to the ultimate outcome of that war. Little wonder then that armed forces the world over were willing to pay any price to acquire these machines. But the Americans would not part with them. The Russians were desperate to close the gap with this military technology advancement made by the Americans but it was not till the 1980s that they inducted into service their first generation AWACS.

It was natural therefore that when in 1986 General K. Sunderji visited the Soviet Union, as it was then, as a state guest, that he would request his hosts for a look at the AWACS. The idea was to either buy a few of these aircraft outright or obtain them on lease on the lines of the nuclear-powered submarine. When the subject was broached with the Russian Defence Minister during the meeting in a glittering hall at the Kremlin, the Soviets used innocence and guile to convince us that they had never heard of AWACS, let alone possess them. At this stage I slipped a sketch of the American AWACS, photocopied from the Jane's Weapon Systems, to Gen. Sunderji.

That was the beginning of a serious proposition being turned into a hilarious game of bluff. The Defence Minister said with a straight face that in the spirit of the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, would we let them have the photocopy of the technical profile of the American AWACS. After a lengthy duel of mischievous wordplay, Gen. Sunderji agreed to part with the photocopy on the assurance of the Minister that it would remain a guarded secret! And that India would have the first AWACS produced in the Soviet Union.

Our weeklong visit ended at Tashkent. The penultimate day was taken up watching displays and demonstrations of training simulators of a whole range of weapons and automotives. On the last day, we were to relax watching an exclusive performance by the Bolshoi Ballet Company followed by the Uzbek folk dancers. Before we retired to our rooms, our liaison officer, a two-star general, mentioned that he had arranged a farewell picnic-breakfast the following morning. The picnic site was the 500-hectare State Lemon Farm about 60 km from Tashkent. Try as we might, there was no fathoming the reasons for this unscheduled picnic. And on one pretext or other our host would open yet another bottle of vintage wine, prolonging the breakfast till at last there was heard the approaching drone of an aircraft.

As the aircraft made low and deliberate, repeated passes over us, our host turned to Gen. Sunderji and said, "Sir, doesn't this resemble the photocopy of the American AWACS you showed us? Had you mentioned that you wanted to see our ASDACS (Acquisition and Strike Directing Aircraft System) we would have gladly flown you in it, all the way back to New Delhi!"

Gen. Sunderji laughed, reached out to a bottle of champagne on the table and raised a toast to the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Cooperation. But what we now have is neither AWACS nor the ASDACS but a hybrid comprising the American Phalcon radar manufactured by the Israelis and mounted by them on Russian IL-76 aircraft provided by us. Such are the games which the superpowers play with their client states.

(Baljit Singh is a retired Lieutenant General of the Indian Army.)

saw the link at BR thought it was worth discussing.

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

India got a taste of the Russian sense of humour when it made a bid to acquire the Soviet Union's version of the AWACS

In these times of acrimony and scams, it was a pleasant diversion to read that to our existing fleet of three Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft, which keep an eye in the sky over our borders, we will shortly add three more (The Hindu, September 21, 2012). Air Chief Marshal N.A.K. Browne has said that by 2025, this inventory will comprise in all five AWACS and 10 AEW&CS (Airborne Early Warning & Control System); the latter with totally indigenously designed and manufactured electronic sensors and in the event the leanest and meanest machines of its class!

So at last, after 40 long years of striving, the Indian armed forces will have arguably the most potent battlefield, force-multiplier capability conceived and manufactured post-World War II.

The AWACS had caught the fancy of the world first in the early 1970s, when the re-structured Egyptian armed forces had launched the Yom Kippur offensive against Israel and achieved complete tactical and strategic surprise. The seemingly impregnable Bar-Lev defence line along the East Bank of the Suez Canal was breached decisively, and the invincible Israelis were almost routed. This was the moment when the AWACS made its maiden combat appearance to shore up the beleaguered Israelis in the Sinai desert. And the tide of battle was thereafter so decisively reversed that but for international pressure, the Israelis were within a whisker of capturing Cairo! All the post-war analyses were unanimous that all other factors apart, the application of AWACS had contributed decisively to the ultimate outcome of that war. Little wonder then that armed forces the world over were willing to pay any price to acquire these machines. But the Americans would not part with them. The Russians were desperate to close the gap with this military technology advancement made by the Americans but it was not till the 1980s that they inducted into service their first generation AWACS.

It was natural therefore that when in 1986 General K. Sunderji visited the Soviet Union, as it was then, as a state guest, that he would request his hosts for a look at the AWACS. The idea was to either buy a few of these aircraft outright or obtain them on lease on the lines of the nuclear-powered submarine. When the subject was broached with the Russian Defence Minister during the meeting in a glittering hall at the Kremlin, the Soviets used innocence and guile to convince us that they had never heard of AWACS, let alone possess them. At this stage I slipped a sketch of the American AWACS, photocopied from the Jane's Weapon Systems, to Gen. Sunderji.

That was the beginning of a serious proposition being turned into a hilarious game of bluff. The Defence Minister said with a straight face that in the spirit of the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, would we let them have the photocopy of the technical profile of the American AWACS. After a lengthy duel of mischievous wordplay, Gen. Sunderji agreed to part with the photocopy on the assurance of the Minister that it would remain a guarded secret! And that India would have the first AWACS produced in the Soviet Union.

Our weeklong visit ended at Tashkent. The penultimate day was taken up watching displays and demonstrations of training simulators of a whole range of weapons and automotives. On the last day, we were to relax watching an exclusive performance by the Bolshoi Ballet Company followed by the Uzbek folk dancers. Before we retired to our rooms, our liaison officer, a two-star general, mentioned that he had arranged a farewell picnic-breakfast the following morning. The picnic site was the 500-hectare State Lemon Farm about 60 km from Tashkent. Try as we might, there was no fathoming the reasons for this unscheduled picnic. And on one pretext or other our host would open yet another bottle of vintage wine, prolonging the breakfast till at last there was heard the approaching drone of an aircraft.

As the aircraft made low and deliberate, repeated passes over us, our host turned to Gen. Sunderji and said, "Sir, doesn't this resemble the photocopy of the American AWACS you showed us? Had you mentioned that you wanted to see our ASDACS (Acquisition and Strike Directing Aircraft System) we would have gladly flown you in it, all the way back to New Delhi!"

Gen. Sunderji laughed, reached out to a bottle of champagne on the table and raised a toast to the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Cooperation. But what we now have is neither AWACS nor the ASDACS but a hybrid comprising the American Phalcon radar manufactured by the Israelis and mounted by them on Russian IL-76 aircraft provided by us. Such are the games which the superpowers play with their client states

The Hindu : Opinion / Op-Ed : How the USSR revealed its eye in the sky to the Indian Army

 

[LurkerBaba]

Merged. Search for existing threads before opening a new one

 

[The Messiah]

The soviets had a sense of humour in that instance

 

[H.A.]

nice story!yeah it seems that the soviets made a mockery with us but we must not forget that it were the same soviet union which leases us our first nuclear sub INS CHAKRA(charlie class)!so whatever might be the reason behind this seemingly unnecessory soviet humor one can't deny the fact that they always backed us up in time of our needs and also provided us with many state of art weapons!

Whatever they provide is plainly business....

 

[Austin]

Actually during Soviet Days it was barter or long term credit with nominal interest rates charged like 2-3 % which MOF calculated was sometimes virtually free. Much of our major equipment buy , infrastructure for it was funded by Soviets at very nominal cost the catch was you bought what was available or given.

Post Soviet days it was pure $$ business no more freebies.

 

[bengalraider]

actually there is a very persuasive story about India having operated a single Tu-126 Moss AWACS on lease from the Soviets during the 1971 war, all strictly unofficially of course. Nothing of this was ever officially conformed by the IAF. however read below

wiki:

The Tu-126 entered service in 1965, although it was only identified by Western intelligence in 1968 after appearing in a Soviet documentary film.[1] Eight production aircraft were built in addition to the prototype from between 1965 and 1968[1][3] and all were nominally based at Å iauliai. Western intelligence estimated that its radar performance was inferior to Western equivalents, that it was unable to detect cruise missiles or small aircraft at low level. However, it was assessed that the Tu-126 had powerful jamming equipment. The Tu-126 was used by the Soviet Air Force, until being replaced by the Beriev A-50. A single Tu-126 was also leased by India during the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971.[3] The last Tu-126 was retired in 1984.[4]
Tupolev Tu-126 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ORBAT.COM

The IAF couldn't have done so without achieving air superiority. The latter also
allowed the IAF to fly more photo-reconnaissance missions for accurate damage assessment. The IAF's
performance (in some cases) was so good that some authors
[26]
began to estimate that the missions were
conducted under AWACS control of a 'loaned' Soviet Tu-126 Moss.

http://orbat.com/site/cimh/iaf/IAF_1971_kills.pdf
From another forum
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/forums/ViewPost.aspx?ForumID=25&ID=23140

The deployment/lease of the aircraft sprung out of the Soviet-Indian friendship treaty signed on 9th august 1971, in which the Soviets and Indians agreed on strategic cooperation. This cooperation came to include Soviet naval support in case of conflict with the US and/or China, and strategic air assets, including the lease of one TU126 AEW with Soviet crew.

As far as we know (based on Norwegian intelligence reports from the time), the plane that was sent was production number 5 or 6 from Siauliai air base, and the plane arrived in India in the first half of november 1971 and was outfitted with Indian air force markings,although staffed by Soviet pilots and operators. It is estimated that it flew around 20 missions over/around Bangladesh and the Bay of Bengal during the 1971 war and is believed to have contributed to some of the spectacular Indian air victories during the december war (pakistan lost about twice as many planes as India).

The leased aircraft was probably back in the Soviet Union around march 1972, at least that is when our intelligence reports mentioned it operating from Siauliai aqain.

It has been speculated that the deployment was as much about monitoring the Us 5th fleet as it was about providing AEW for the Indians.