How India & China see each other

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by kseeker, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. kseeker

    kseeker Retired

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    itle: IRSA Asymmetrical threat Perceptions in India-China Relations. Author: Tien-sze Fang.

    A fascinating analysis of the mutual threat perceptions of the two countries

    International relations theories during the Cold War were largely predicated on the global matrix of two super powers setting the context for relations amongst smaller powers. The end of Cold War and emergence of new powers have tested and stretched the theoretical framework. It is still a work in progress and the series of writings related to South Asia, led by Oxford International Relations in South Asia Series, has made a valuable contribution in the field. The book under review is remarkable in Sino-Indian relations being addressed by a Taiwanese diplomat-scholar. Taiwan has a unique relationship with China based on a mix of historical animosity, national identity, economic and power asymmetry and the dominant influence of United States. Unlike the mainstream neo-realism or neo-liberal streams of international relations analysis, this book attempts a constructivist understanding of the relations between India and China. The author, who was based in India, makes a fascinating analysis of the mutual threat perceptions of the two countries. It is interesting that both the stronger and weaker player in the Sino-Indian dyad, see the other as a threat to its interests. The analysis covers the four major dimensions of the two states’ troubled relationship, viz; nuclear issues, Tibet, border problem and regional competition.

    Perceptions and misperceptions of threat become a variable in the strategic policies of states. International relations theorists have long analysed threat perceptions as the estimated intent and capabilities of the adversary state. Based on such analysis, not always wise or right, states adopt countermeasures to cope with the perceived threat. These have often taken the form of balancing, through internal strength, either military or economic or both, or external partnerships with allies. Some other states try ‘band wagoning’ by joining another power while some others seek a constructive engagement through Confidence Building Measures (CBMs) to reduce the threat. The book puts out the view, not surprisingly, that the weaker of the two will attempt to reduce the asymmetry by improving its capabilities. This is what in fact India is doing militarily albeit slowly and by building a network of cooperative relationship with other states extending from the Asia Pacific to Indian Ocean. As the author argues, this in itself can be a trigger for perceptional misunderstanding.

    India’s nuclear weapons capability, is quite clearly not driven by the nuclear powers in the UN Security Council other than China. Pakistan’s nuclear capability, supported and sustained by China, added to New Delhi’s perceptions of asymmetry. India was willing to pay the price of economic and other sanctions in order to become a nuclear weapons state. It was a major measure to change the asymmetry, which allowed New Delhi to approach its bilateral problems with China in a more confident manner. China does not see India as a serious nuclear threat, but the resulting change in India’s stature as a rising power and the resultant improved ties with the US is a new variable in China’s calculus of asymmetry.

    Tibet has been a source of continuing friction between China and India. China has not been able to satisfy either the Tibetan population or the global opinion on its intentions in Tibet. It opposes the discourse on autonomy, and has hugely changed the military infrastructure in Tibet. It has little leverage over the role of the Dalai Lama and over international media on its reporting on Tibet. Beijing’s sense of inadequacy clearly creates a perception of threat in China’s party and military leadership. While India is not the cause of this, and has unambiguously stated its position on Tibet being a part of China, the Tibetan question will continue to remain part of China’s sense of asymmetric threat to its national identity. Indian analysts are not unjustified in arguing that the slow pace of boundary negotiations and a continuing series of irritants on the disputed borders have a connection with Beijing’s Tibet conundrum.

    South Asia has become an arena for the rivalry between China and India. Hostile relations between India and Pakistan, Beijing’s involvement in it through its military and nuclear assistance to Pakistan, its role in Sri Lanka, China’s actions in Nepal, Myanmar and in Maldives have all added to New Delhi’s threat perceptions from China. China’s approach to the resolution of the boundary issue and its tone and tenor during the stand off on the LAC in Ladakh in 2013, have all combined to create in India the widely held perception of a hostile and inflexible China. China’s economic growth, admirable in itself, when combined with its massive military capabilities and its peremptory demands on Japan, Indonesia and South Korea have led to intensified perceptions of Chinese strategic threats from Washington DC to Canberra. Every Indian defence budget gets compared with China’s. The Vote on Account budget presented in the Indian Parliament in February 2014 evoked the common plaint that it is no match to Beijing’s defence allocations. China on the other hand, sees no major threat from Indian economic and military capabilities. This asymmetry in threat perception is analysed with insight by the author.

    New Delhi and Beijing both have a shared interest in a just and stable international system. The two countries both seek a multi-polar world. Nevertheless, China has clearly shown its hand against India, by working against the latter’s entry as a permanent member of the UN Security Council. The idea of parallel rise of India and China has been voiced by Indian leaders and supported by the Indian media, including this paper. The co-emergence of the two rising powers has found traction in both countries, albeit with the two states rising at different pace and capacity. There is in reality a considerable gap between the Indian and Chinese aspirations and actions. Each blames the other for working against its interests. Neither side clearly needs or seeks a conflict, although Chinese actions in 2013 raised the ante to disturbing levels. Threat perceptions thus play a meaningful part in managing the relationship that has a complex mix of both conflict and cooperative elements, which this useful book does well to explain.

    How India & China see each other - The Hindu
     
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  3. xuxu

    xuxu Regular Member

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    Funny thing comes every day, some one from 10000km away OXFORD told us how we seen each other
     
  4. Samar Rathi

    Samar Rathi Regular Member

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    They want us to fight :laugh:
     
  5. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Author is Chinese, editors are Indian, publisher is British, it appears to me.
     
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  6. CCP

    CCP Senior Member Senior Member

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    The author's name is a Chinese name , but he is not a Chinese citizen for sure.
     
  7. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Well, you got me there.
     
  8. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    China ganging up with Pakistan since Day One and instigating against India, occupies Indian territory,
    Claims more and frequenslty shows utter disrespect for boundary lines

    India, after six decades is hesitatingly linking with Japan and Vietnam to very tortoise-like catch up

    Asean more likely to prefer India than China , given all the SCS potentially serious conflicts.
    Even Malaysia especially after having had the benefit of experiencing Chinese arrogance regarding the MH370 tragedy is getting a bit cheesed with China.
    ( Huh - nice one there - Cheesed with China ! )

    China's main strength - manufactures everything under the sun including "where de Sun dont Shine" ( eg toilet paper ) and through those earnings, is able to upgrade its military - which it is now going to use especially in the SCS -
    watch out for this the coming few decades.


    India - unable to do the same in manufacturing as China and has having huge manpower sitting
    down doing nothing .

    Rahul said he's gonna make India another manufacturer in China's footsteps, -
    nice talk, where's the action ?
    Congress seems more interested in vote-bank politics than getting the economy streamlined into action.

    Modi however seems to be doing well with his pro-Corporation policies.
    Until and unless we do more, the Balance of Trade payments will continue to be heavily in China's
    favour, ~ ~~ and that is a Killer !

    Well that's how i see India China relations .( It's the economy clever, ..... the economy ! )
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  9. Pratap

    Pratap Tihar Jail Banned

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    I see China as a nation composed of an ethnicity which is most intelligent and practical in entire world and thus has greatest history( excluding last 3 centuries), due to accident of history, coming into conflict with a nation whose people can be described as least practical minded and have a history of foreign domination more than any other Eurasian group. No similarity anywhere and let us see if " Hindus" can survive dragons.
     
  10. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Which of these tits is speaking here?
     
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  11. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    Actually, the author of the article is V. R. Raghavan, and he is reviewing Fang's book. Fang's book itself is not quoted within the article.

    Raghavan himself is retired IA, former Lt. General who commanded forces in Kargil and the Siachen Glacier. His views are much more hawkish than the Indian mainstream. It is no surprise that he attributes most of the Indian defense establishment's fixation on China purely to Chinese actions (and more specifically, China's actions in 2013). If Raghavan were to look anywhere else for reasons as to why India's official discourse constantly harps about 'balancing' or 'checking' China, he would have to look hard in the mirror at his own enormous Sinophobia.
     
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  12. PredictablyMalicious

    PredictablyMalicious Punjabi Senior Member

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    I used to have a high opinion of the Chinese but I found out how racist these guys are! Especially to South Asians. It's unbelievable. Indians can never match the Chinese racism.
     
  13. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    :lol:

    topic unrelated to any prior posts in the thread? check
    unprovable assertions? check
    tries to incite anti-China feelings? check

    man, it's like you're paid to do this or something. how are the health benefits and 401(k) at Ntrepid?
     
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  14. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    The author is Taiwanese diplomat-scholar .....

    Ah, you mean to say Americans are missing ..!! I thought British is as good as an Amirkhan...

    But
     
  15. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    What a jaundiced view and prejudices against article writer merely because he is a Lt Gen of IA ??

    Judge the article rather than the man...

    You seem to have larger than life image of yourself as not being "balanceable" .... sinophelia rather than sinophobia ..
     
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  16. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    I assumed "Oxford" on cover was in England. British doesn't equate to American by a long shot. Well, maybe from where you sit.
     
  17. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    OK ... I thought Britain long ago had become an Amirkhan colony ... all things they do is for or on behest of the Amirkhans ..

    In India one would say " Unke Dane Bik Gaye Hain"..... meaning somewhat - Their balls are sold out..
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
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  18. Pratap

    Pratap Tihar Jail Banned

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    It is beacuse we Indians are really quite unattractive and dark. Not only this, we Indians have been ruled by foreign groups for centuries. I know it hurts but people everywhere hate and have contempt towards those who are far below them in wealth and beauty and we Indians fit this bill.
     
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  19. PredictablyMalicious

    PredictablyMalicious Punjabi Senior Member

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    It's only self- hating Indians who think so. A lot of people appreciate Indian beauty. On average, Indians are darker for sure, but not unattractive. And poverty has a lot to do with being unattractive as well. The bottom line is that people will always look down upon those who are poorer. India is still extremely poor in terms of per capita income. The foreign rule has nothing to do with it, I believe. It's also the dark skin that hurts us. Sad that so many people have bought into the notion of white superiority. The most tragic of all is that Indians themselves have bought into it, giving others the license (so to speak) to treat darker Indians like sh!t. You know there's something wrong with the world when dark skin alone is grounds for discrimination. Indeed, there is something wrong with the world.
     
  20. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    @Pratap, the root cause of everything is money and economic power, as you rightly said. The disdain for dark skin arises out of that basic cause. For the last several centuries, white nations have dominated the world. USA, UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia - these nations have written modern history. All the power, riches and the ability to write history, lies with these nations. Foreign rule does have a role to play because these white nations subjugated brown and black nations for centuries.

    All this has resulted in a perception that black and brown are inferior, and white is superior. This perception has been ingrained so deeply in the whole world, that everyone is affected by it. This applies as much to white racist snobs, as shithead Indians, mainly from the North, who have been propagating the superiority of light colour for decades now.

    When brown nations like India make it big in the world - when we see great economic growth and are able to drive the world forward and write the world's destiny, like the US, Russia and Europe have been doing - that is when we will begin to see a reversal of this trend.
     
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  21. thethinker

    thethinker Senior Member Senior Member

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    The negative connotations of dark skin are mainly two fold :

    a) In ancient times, labourers and commoners used to work in heat/sun/outdoors while royalty was shielded by being indoors. The skin colour then thus was used to judge socio-economic status. You may know why fairy tales have "fair princes and princesses".

    b) Racial purity is another factor. There are beliefs that a single pure race (say a white only) race is much more superior compared to others and mixed race people are less capable then single race people because of genetic dilution.

    This gives a good amount of info regarding how dark skin is perceived globally :

    Discrimination based on skin color - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
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