How Chinese Automaker SAIC Robbed Korean Automotive Tech?

Discussion in 'China' started by afako, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. afako

    afako Regular Member

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    The uncertain global economy isn’t the only hurdle for SsangYong Motor to clear this year. South Korean politicians are putting up another.

    Some lawmakers from opposition parties want the National Assembly to look into a possible accounting fraud by Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp., or SAIC, the previous owner of Ssangyong, which is South Korea’s fourth-biggest car maker by output. (There are generally considered to e five companies making cars in South Korea, though Hyundai and Kia have the same parent company.)

    The lawmakers argue SAIC artificially or wrongfully boosted its losses in order to enter a bankruptcy court and exit their ownership of Ssangyong. They also say SAIC ran away with core technologies without making an investment in SsangYong.

    SAIC gave up the company, which it had bought for about 600 billion Korean won ($550 million) in 2004, when the bankruptcy court took over control of SsangYong in 2009. Mahindra & Mahindra of India acquired the company for 523 billion won in 2010 and SsangYong graduated from court protection in 2011.

    In January, Mahindra & Mahindra said it will invest more than 1 trillion won in the next four years in SsangYong. In the past two years, it already injected 350 billion won in its South Korean unit to launch several facelift models such as the Rexton W sport-utility vehicle and the 11-seat Korando Turismo recreational vehicle. SsangYong aims to sell 149,300 units this year, up 24% from a year earlier.

    SsangYong’s operating losses narrowed to around 90 billion won last year from 145 billion won a year earlier due to increased exports to emerging markets such as Russia and Chile.

    SsangYong and its union say they don’t need the hassle of a parliamentary investigation and believe they are embroiled in political strife between the ruling and opposition party. The ruling Saenuri Party initially agreed with the idea of a parliamentary probe last year but changed its tune last month.

    “Opposition lawmakers are making use of SsangYong’s past case in order to attack the ruling party,” SsangYong Motor union leader Kim Kyu-han said in an interview. He said the politicians are “not helping the company but shaking it.”

    SsangYong Motor President Lee Yoo-il said the company is having a difficulty in negotiations with dealers to raise prices due to a political dispute that “has nothing to do with the company’s business.”

    Some dealers expressed concerns that the political strife is making it difficult for the company to move forward.

    “We’d like to leave the past in the past, and focus on the bright future,” said Deon Cooper, a dealer from New Zealand where sales of SsangYong’s vehicles soared by 300% a year in the past two years.

    For the politicians, part of the issue is that the auto company hasn’t rehired several hundred workers who were laid off while it went through bankruptcy.

    The politicians themselves have done little to help Ssangyong’s business, ironically. Most members of the National Assembly use cars from Hyundai Motor Co. and Kia Motors Corp., the country’s two major car makers.

    The political clouds over SsangYong won’t likely blow over soon.

    The United Progressive Party and the Progressive Justice Party, two minor opposition parties, said they will continue to go ahead with a parliamentary probe of SsangYong even after the new Park Geun-hye government comes to power late this month.

    Politicians Create New Uncertainty for SsangYong - Korea Real Time - WSJ

    How China committed the Theft?

    China's Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC), the former majority owner of Ssangyong Motor, has stolen hybrid car technology as well as diesel engine and transmission technology from the Korean carmaker's key SUV model Kyron, the Seoul Central District Prosecutors' Office said Wednesday. Prosecutors placed a Chinese vice president sent to Ssangyong from SAIC who allegedly orchestrated the siphoning off of key technology on a wanted list, and indicted seven senior researchers at Ssangyong for handing over the information.

    Suspicions of the technology theft surfaced in 2006, when Ssangyong's union accused the carmaker's SAIC-appointed head and eight other managers of negligence. The union said the Chinese carmaker had failed to live up to a promise to invest W1 trillion (US$1=W1,158) made when it acquired management control in 2005 and was only interested in stealing key automotive technology.

    Immediately after acquiring Ssangyong, SAIC combined the Korean automaker's computer system with its own, raising suspicions that the move was designed to steal blueprints of new models and other technological information. At the time, SAIC issued a statement denying the accusation, which it said were the result of "misunderstanding and prejudice." Now it appears the charges were true.

    [SIZE=3The technology SAIC stole from Ssangyong involves the Hybrid Control Unit that automatically controls all vehicle systems, including engine and transmission, optimizing fuel efficiency and performance. The government had designated that technology as part of the country's new growth engines and funded 50 percent of research costs or W6 billion.[/SIZE] That is why it is forbidden to use or transfer that technology without government approval. SAIC signed no contracts nor was it licensed to transfer or use that technology, yet the Chinese vice president used his company’s position as the majority shareholder to pressure automotive researchers to e-mail detailed information to China.

    The acquisition of valuable technology can be one of the perks of corporate acquisitions. But SAIC and Ssangyong were separate corporate entities, making it a criminal offense to transfer technology without the necessary contracts. And when Ssangyong's financial situation worsened, SAIC in January simply tossed the Korean automaker into court receivership and fled. Ssangyong workers staged a 77-day sit-in at the carmaker's factory protesting against layoffs. Its future remains uncertain. SAIC's takeover of Ssangyong is a textbook example of an acquisition for the sole purpose of stealing technology.

    The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - SAIC's Takeover of Ssangyong Was Simple Theft
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2013
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  3. cir

    cir Senior Member Senior Member

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    SAIC is firing on all cylinders。

    It is only a matter of time that this great auto company will become one of the world's Top 5,replacing the likes of Ford Co. etc。
     
  4. cir

    cir Senior Member Senior Member

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    SAIC sold 4.49 million vehicles in 2012,up 12% year on year in a difficult market。

    The company aims to sell 5-5.5 million autos in 2013.

    Way to go。
     
  5. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    You cannot become a top auto company by stealing technology. You have to innovate. What will they do after 5 years when this stolen tech becomes obsolete - steal again?
    Look at the global leaders - BMW, Audi, GM, Ford, Suzuki, Honda, Volvo.......
    Can't see a thief getting in there.
     
  6. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Bunch of thieves remain as bunch of thieves. Only goes to show how bankrupt they are in their ideas.
     
    Raj30 likes this.
  7. satish007

    satish007 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Honda cheap car but quality is good,Chinese innovation is cheaper than Honda and quality is ok. Volvo car owned by Chinese now.
     
  8. cir

    cir Senior Member Senior Member

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    Last week GM paid 119 million dollars for an 1% stake in its joint venture with SAIC。This means that the manufacturing side of the venture is now valued at some 12 billion dollars,for the sales side remain majority(51%)-controlled by SAIC。

    SAIC‘s joint venture with Volkswagen is worth more。

    Then SAIC have tens of other subsidiaries making autos of various sorts,including own brands such as the Roewe which sold some 300,,000 cars in 2012, a feat that the likes of Tata Motors can only dream about:

    Why is Tata Motors slipping in the domestic mkt?

    Why is Tata Motors slipping in the domestic mkt? | Firstpost
     
  9. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    so am i actually hearing a story about how an owner of a house robs his own house???and steals the tech from his own house???a bit odd though........

    anyway hows the case going on??convinced???or some PR project on the way so people get to know some korean company that nobody used to hear about???
     
  10. afako

    afako Regular Member

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    SAIC is Crapsh!t Company. Makes 2 Million Cheap Wuling Vans Per Year. :rofl:
     
  11. afako

    afako Regular Member

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    http://www.china.org.cn/opinion/2012-09/11/content_26488818.htm


    Let me show where Chinaman stands with the JVs:

    Chinese automakers face major hurdles: News from Warc.com

    Chinese automakers depend too much on foreign technology - China.org.cn


    Tata Motors is the Next Automobile Giant. The access to R&D, Manufacturing Facilities spread out across the Globe, Global Supply Chain is Unparalleled by any Automaker Post Hyundai-KIA.

    It is the World's Second Largest Bus Maker, Fourth Largest Truck Maker. It has Luxury Bus Brands - Manufactures and Sells in Europe.

    Can any Chinese Company Sell a Single Vehicle developed to Euro V Complaint and sell in Europe? No!

    No Chinese Companies can Match Tata Motors.

    Among BRIC - Brazil has No Automotive Brand to speak off.

    Russia - Autovaz Built Foreign Licensed Cars and Bought by Nissan-Renault Alliance. Will be doing Re-Badging of Nissan Products. Depends on the State for Running its Operations (Also Marussia).

    China - Let's see where does China stands:

    1) No Brands.

    2) State Owned - Access to Unlimited Funds - Advantage like Russians.

    3) Subsidies by the State given to Chinese Customers on buying Chinese Brands.

    4) Government Rules forcing Foreign Companies to go in JV and No 100% Foreign Ownership like India.

    5) Zero Percent Loans to Set up Plants in other Countries on Long Term Credit.

    Out of BRIC, BRC all have Vast Government Support for their Automobile Industries.

    Only 'I' has to pay Vast Taxes and an uncertain environment related to Fuel Policy.

    Yet only I has been able to create World Class Automobile Brands and I's Private Companies > BRC in Automobile.

    Chinese cars 'still below par'

     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  12. afako

    afako Regular Member

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    Chinaman transferred Forbidden technology by using the Authoritative Position and Pressurizing the Peers.
     
  13. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    1 no brand like the cheapest piece of crap in the world nano doesnt mean no brand.......there are many chinese brands in china doing pretty good.....they are not fightting crap like tata nano gabage but brands from developed nations but still they can suvive and are on track of getting better....

    2 state owned or not is not an issue....whats the problem of state owned????all the rockets we shot were made by state owned companies or organizations with probably a few compotents from private owned companies so what??do you see chinese have any crap like GSLV firework??

    3 subsidies are given to cars deemed enviromentlly friendly and sometimes to buyers in rural area.....domestic or forign brands are treated equally......where on earth you got your info???

    4 so???if you dont like getting in chinese market then ---- off.....no one is begging anyone to come here.......you come here you go by the rules.....is that supposed to be an issue???

    5 dont know what are you talking about at all....factories are getting setup even in EU.....

    only 'I' can make crap like nano......i know......
     
  14. Sam2012

    Sam2012 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Nothing to be surprised ,chinese are good at stealing & reverse engneering

    If they can steal tech of Su-27 , S-300 etc , what is the big deal with Car tech , but stealing is also an art chinese are masters in that keep it up:thumb:
     
  15. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    the only suprise is after you copied and made some SLV rocket to begin with your rocket tech development your rocket tech is still so crappy and low while claimming you got best settallites in the world.....bravo......
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  16. afako

    afako Regular Member

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    The MG division of SAIC (Shanghai Auto) is preparing to launch its first SUV, spy shots from bitauto.com show. The upcoming MG car looks so close to Ssangyong Korando that it was mistaken for a facelifted version of the latter by worldcarfans.com earlier this month.

    The white test car exposed bears no logo, but the red SMTC sign (for "SAIC Motor Technical Center") and the design of the front grille clearly indicate it will join the MG family, which so far includes only sedans and hatchbacks (SAIC launched the MG Icon mini SUV concept a year ago, but we have yet to see the production version of it).

    [​IMG]

    http://chinaautoweb.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/saic-mg-suv-6.jpg[IMG]

    Above: MG SUV spied, in comparision with Ssangyong Korando
    [B][SIZE=3][COLOR="#FF0000"]
    It is not the first time for SAIC to copy models developed by Ssangyong. The Roewe W5, released in August 2011, was a clone of the Kyron[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]. Borrowing Ssangyong designs and technologies may be taken as a proper way by SAIC to recover some of the heavy losses it suffered for acquiring the South Korean automaker.

    We expect the MG SUV to get SAIC’s Hyperboost 1.5T engine from the NSE series (New Small Engine) that can put out up to 135 horsepower and 200Nm of torque. Paired with it will be a DCT. The same powertrain is also coming to MG5 and Roewe 350.

    Close to production ready, the MG compact SUV may make its debut at the 2013 Shanghai auto show, which is to open on April 20.

    [url=http://chinaautoweb.com/2013/03/saic-copies-ssangyong-korando-for-mg-suv/]SAIC Copies Ssangyong Korando for MG SUV - ChinaAutoWeb[/url]
     
  17. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    you mean these two look close?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    then similar viechiels are all close........

    btw MG is a british brand obtained by chinese company....like volvo....i dont think chinese would interfere the design at this stage..........just like for a long time land rover was seen as a british brand and not a ford brand evein it was in american hands......
     
  18. s002wjh

    s002wjh Senior Member Senior Member

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    japan steal many US technology in the 60-70 to boast their knowledge base. s.korea stole japan technology in 80's-90s to boast their knowledge base. now china is doing the same. its just matter on how to acheive something fast/cheap. even if you drop few billion to do R&D, if you don't how the previous gen technology work, it will be just waste of $$ and time.
     
  19. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    with tech stealing it can go upto rank 2 also.
    *rank one needs innovation*
     
  20. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    well, the bankupted one has no right to accuse the overtaker.
     
  21. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    it went bankrupt after getting overtaken. saic failed to run company, it lead it to bankruptcy.
    but whats the point of fight.
    what had happened had happened. mahindra too went to korea for tech, but its not getting away with tech, thats the only insignificant difference
     

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