How China, India, and Japan are competing to develop AC

Discussion in 'Indo Pacific & East Asia' started by Srinivas_K, Feb 26, 2015.

  1. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    5,038
    Likes Received:
    3,994
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    USA is pulling the strings from behind, any regional block that comes up with out China will have firm USA support.

    The building of islands and Chinese outrageous claims will definitely help USA, to exploit and establish a strong presence in Asia. India, Japan, Australia and USA have some strategic interests as well as strong trade relations with China.

    But looking at the history of USA, they won't give away their domination in Asia to a rising power, that too a communist regime.

    India is expected to operate 4 carrier groups by 2030 and we are planning to build 2 huge nuclear powered Carriers. India already has INS Vikramaditya and one carrier is being constructed and will be operational by 2020.

    Apart from that there is talk about helicopter carriers and Nuke submarines. India is also strengthening its Island defences after the incident involving chinese nuke sub docking at srilankan port.

    So India can counter china in S.Asia and IOR regions close to India. India is aiming at minimum credible deterrent against China since we are in the phase of economic development and building the nation.
     
  2. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,465
    Likes Received:
    508
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    Actually, if you look into the detail, you will find that Americans are shifting their assets from Asia to Pacific, in another word, moving out of Chinese missile range.

    No, they are not willing to share the technologies to India, they simply wish to sell the equipment to India, which means they can control India's aircraft carrier.

    No, the other 2 have no will and mean to defend Indian interest.

    Chinese Indian ocean fleet announced? By who? A tabloid?
     
    prohumanity likes this.
  3. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    5,038
    Likes Received:
    3,994
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    They are adding one more carrier fleet near to China. IOR is the main concern and prime area of interest for India no need for USN here.

    No US is willing to share the technologies like EMALs and other crucial techs that are used for carrier building.

    U.S. and India to Cooperate on Aircraft Carrier Technology - USNI News

    India can defends its strategic interests on its own just in case China shows its aggressiveness.
    PLA Navy may establish fourth fleet for Indian Ocean|Politics|News|WantChinaTimes.com

    But the activity of China has increased in IOR offlate.
     
  4. grampiguy

    grampiguy Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    142
    Location:
    Australia
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    Please don't assume that I am arguing from American/NATO side, neither I have any intention to.

    At this point of history, India has to improve its military and economy and for that, a very close cooperation with west is required. Don't forget that 60% of economy of the world and capital still remains with American and European/Japanese powers. Whatever development you see in China, all started with massive influx of capital from US/EU/Japan/Korea and other countries, so India also needs capital. India needs about 1 Trillion USD for infrastructure only. That's why Mr Modi is visiting all over the world, looking and inviting capital. Already, Chinese are feeling the pinch and their economy has started slowing down, which is a bigger headache for their party.

    This moment in history is India's chance. Only a fool would squander this chance by talking of a speculative future American threat or NATO threat. The big elephant in the room is China with its lackey Pakistan lurking beside it. Let India focus on its economy and military first to take care of these immediate challenges, now.
     
    apple likes this.
  5. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    5,038
    Likes Received:
    3,994
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    They are adding one more carrier fleet near to China. IOR is the main concern and prime area of interest for India no need for USN here.

    No US is willing to share the technologies like EMALs and other crucial techs that are used for carrier building.

    U.S. and India to Cooperate on Aircraft Carrier Technology - USNI News

    India can defends its strategic interests on its own just in case China shows its aggressiveness.
    PLA Navy may establish fourth fleet for Indian Ocean|Politics|News|WantChinaTimes.com

    But the activity of China has increased in IOR offlate.
     
    apple likes this.
  6. prohumanity

    prohumanity Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    919
    Location:
    USA
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    Its funny that many people on the forum automatically assume that China is India's enemy. This mindset is caused by constant west-centric media propaganda to create a widening rift between India and China. I would like to ask members here to think outside the propaganda box. Pay attention to WHO is saying what and what is the purpose of what is being said.
    Also, consider the possibility that India and China can have conversing views as both are Eastern civilizations who value mutual respect and not very interested in controlling and dominating the world. Ancient Chinese and Indian cultures have a lot of in common but the propaganda machine does not want you to know that fact. Divide and Conquer have been western strategy and is unlikely to change in future.
    Don't let anyone scare you to believe that India's economy can not develop without the mercy of western mega corporations. The reality is opposite...these greedy ,anti-people mega corporation can not grow more if 1.2 billion Indians and 1.3 billion Chinese do not buy what they are trying to sell.
    Profits should be for the benefit of entire society and not just for 1% pathologically greedy and narcissistic individuals because their greed is endless and the desire to suppress and dominate the masses is shameful.
     
  7. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,465
    Likes Received:
    508
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    At the mean time, US fighters, bombers, marines are moving from Japan to Guam.

    Oh, no. US is already there and they are not leaving.

    Russians also said a lot technology sharing, but what is the result?
    Americans are not sharing these technologies with British, French, why do you think they will share it with India?

    So, is India willing to defend Japan and Australia without any military commitment from these 2?


    So, a Chinese fourth fleet fro Indian ocean announced by a newspaper outside of China?

    So what? That is an international ocean, everyone gets the right to patrol there.
    Since the pirate is becoming worse in this area, a lots countries have increased their activity in Indian Ocean. China is just one of them.
     
  8. apple

    apple Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    171
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    Have the Russian's taught you how the make the steel needed for the landing deck of aircraft carriers yet? Or have you worked it out by yourself, by now, like how you "worked out" how to make copies of Russian jet engines?

    And seriously, the US controling Indian carriers because they provided a catapult, or something... How do you imagine that would work?

    Australia doesn't have submarines to defend against invasion by New Zealand, nor to intercept boats fishing in our waters.

    Don't see how Japan, due to location, could remain neutral if China went crazy. And due, to your mutual history, don't think either Japan, nor China, would want to remain neutral

    Even if want you say is 100% true (and for what I understand you are largely correct regarding concern about Chinese missiles) what would the US forces in Guam be doing? Sunbathing? Positioning themselves to put down a future Hawaiian insurgency?

    They are there for you (and for a certain extant for North Korera/ Russia too).

    In common with a lot of other posters on this forum, you seem to misunderstand what alliances entail. India, Japan and Australia have a mutual concern, namely your military, and we should be co operating with each other

    Am I one of your WHO?

    Have been accused of being pro Beijing, on this forum. But, you'd be the first to call me what ever it is you may be (potentially) accussing me of.

    You ideas are all well and good. But you strike me as quite the hippy.

    While I'm possibly a bit confused about this, you realise this is a military forum, right? Is pretty natural to discuss military matters here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
  9. grampiguy

    grampiguy Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    142
    Location:
    Australia
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo


    Its funny that many people try to pass on China as India's friendly neighbour because it is neither friendly nor a neighbour, per se. First, India's neighbour for 5,000 years was peaceful yet mystique Tibet. India and China have always been distant countries with few direct connections and in old times, if a Chinese ventured on a journey to India, they would call it the Journey to heavens in the West ( Because God Budha belonged to this part of the world). By occupying Tibet forcefully, China is trying to pretend that it is India's neighbour and can co-exist peacefully. So prima facie, no one believes China in the Indian sub-continent. Second, if you want to see peaceful nature of Chinese interaction with India, go ask Into-Tibet Border Police personnel who face Chinese on a daily basis. Watch those videos on youtube when both troops come face to face. Its ugly and dangerous and with increased intensity, the interaction can turn lethal.

    Whatever peace was left between India-China relations, has vanished after Depsang Incident, Demchok Incident and submarine docking in Colombo in last 2-3 years. India can't afford to take China, with peaceful intentions. Chinese help to Pakistan has muddied the situation to horrible proportions. Now, the only thing that can happen is balancing of China. Whether it is balance of power or balance of threat, India will be compelled to choose either to contain China in near future. Fortunately, India's size, population, economy, demographic quality and democracy has innate strength to challenge any major power in the world. So China started it, India will finish it. In this, if India attempts to take help of the US, Japan, Australia or anyone, I don't blame it.
     
  10. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,465
    Likes Received:
    508
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    No, they haven't since we already built it by ourselves.

    No, we didn't copy Russian jet engine since WS10 is rooted from US engine.

    How about they are doing the maintenance work for you, just as they did for French?

    What is that suppose to mean? The potential Sino-India conflict spot is over land border.

    So, if China and India go to war over Himalaya mountains , Japan will start to bomb Chinese cities on the east shore? Do you think the Japanese are stupid?

    How about staying out f attacking of Chinese missile and waiting for the best chance of entering the war, which is the moment that China got exhausted?

    Doesn't mean they need to stand on the very first line.

    In common with a lot of other Indian posters on this forum, you seem to misunderstand how an alliance works: both of you guarantee each other a future commitment on a single subject without limit on this commitment.
    Think this way: when Japan and China starts a small conflict over Diaoyu island, what can India do? Starting to attack Aksai Chin? What will India do if Chinese just simply pull out of Aksai Chin temporally? Continue attacking Tibet to start a full scale war with China on the land?

    The only reason you sign an alliance with others is you can't handle your enemy over a potential conflict and others help can turn the table.
    In the case of India-Japan alliance, each of the two has the ability to handle China considering the scale of conflict.
    At the mean time each of you can't provide meaningful assistance to each other: India's movement on the land border won't be big enough to draw Chinese navy away from east asia while Japanese maritime conflict can't help India's land war.

    There is only one way can make India-Japan alliance work, promise of unconditional full scale of war. I don't see that is possible from both sides.
     
  11. aerokan

    aerokan Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    536
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    China will be India's enemy automatically till China continue with it's forked tongue strategy. You should be really blind to Chinese advances and their exorbitant claims of AP being theirs and the even more arrogant claims of the entire ASEAN sea through which a lot of world trade passes through. Tell the naive peaceniks that Chinese intentions are very peaceful and they don't mean any harm to Indians. If they are indeed peaceful, the border issue would have been solved long ago. Afterall, India has a history of giving away land to neighbors who are peaceful towards us at that time.

    Instead of paying attention to "WHO says what" if you look at "WHO does what", you will easily figure out that China's intentions are not peaceful by any stretch of imagination. A peaceful China would have strengthened the entire Eastern civilization a lot more. But it is only weakening it with it's arrogance.
     
    sesha_maruthi27 and Mad Indian like this.
  12. aerokan

    aerokan Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    536
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    Not yet. But i have full confidence in China's ability to bring all countries towards an unconditional alliance against them. :thumb:
     
    LETHALFORCE and Mad Indian like this.
  13. apple

    apple Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    171
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    That's not what I've heard. Well that's not what I've read on another site on the internet. So, I'm really not an expert and you could well be correct.

    As above.

    Not sure what you mean by this. Are you claiming the Americans have sabotaged some repairs they did for the French?

    This thread is about aircraft carriers.

    No, Japan probably wouldn't, at least initially.

    You are talking about America? You post seems to imply that people are wanting to invade/ destroy China i.e. you're writing is based on a position I would describes as Delusionally Paranoid.

    Okinawa, etc.../ South Korea are the first line. Guam is more a second line.

    Yeah, no you still don't understand alliances.

    Australia and China have somekind of defence alliance. It's totally meaningless.

    Australian and New Zealand have an alliance. The New Zealand government has an open ended offer by which they can, from a legal point of view, became part of Australia and we could send them everything we've got.

    Can sort of get you as China, and coincidentially India too, doesn't really have a history of alliances. Neither of those two countries; China and India, seem to play well with others. So, alliances aren't something you're perhaps familiar with.

    But, there are all kinds of alliances, which can concern a wide range of issues and levels of commitment.
     
  14. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Messages:
    3,480
    Likes Received:
    971
    As I see it, it is easier for India to ally with USA compared to ally with Japan, in the matters of maritime security. USA has presence and reach which Japanese lack.

    A military alliance between Japan and India is ruled out.

    A military alliance between Australia and India is also very unlikely.
     
  15. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Messages:
    3,480
    Likes Received:
    971
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    The industrial collaboration between India and Japan on military projects is a subject for the future. There is nothing concrete so far.
     
  16. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,465
    Likes Received:
    508
    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    Maybe you can provide your internet source that Russia sold its steel cable tech to China.

    Where did I claim or imply that?
    All I said is that from now on, French has to consider Americans' attitude about where and how to use their aircraft carrier.

    But we are talking about India-Japan alliance here.

    Then what is the meaning of a military alliance?

    So you are denying there is a possibility of war no matter how remotely it could be?

    Yes, Americans are moving their military assets to Guam and transferring the first line defence duty to her allies.

    Ok, after all these meaningless words, just tell me what kind of alliance Japan and India is going to build, and what commitment each of the two is putting into this alliance.
     
  17. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,465
    Likes Received:
    508
    If Japan and India do have a slightly chance to create an alliance, the chance of India and USA alliance is zero.
    India won't send her navy out to fight a war unless her dominance in Indian Ocean is guaranteed.
    American won't give up Indian Ocean for East Asia since Indian Ocean has far more strategic importance to her global dominance than East Asia.
     

Share This Page