How China, India, and Japan are competing to develop AC

Discussion in 'Indo Pacific & East Asia' started by Srinivas_K, Feb 26, 2015.

  1. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    This chart shows how China, India, and Japan are competing to develop their own aircraft carriers

    Aircraft carriers are one of the ultimate symbols of a nation's military strength and ability to project force beyond its borders.

    An aircraft carrier group is only fully operational when it has a reliable power source (either nuclear or petroleum-based), an accompanying carrier fleet for protection, and aircraft that can operate off of the carrier's deck. Meeting these requirements is an extremely costly endeavor that most nations either can't fulfill or sensibly choose not to pursue, based on the exorbitant price and the questionable hard-power value of a carrier for most of the world's countries.

    Despite this, Asia may be in the midst of a carrier arms race, with China and India working on indigenous models. The following Reuters chart displays the aircraft carriers operating or under construction in Asia.

    [​IMG]

    China has the largest aircraft carrier in Asia in the Liaoning, a 302 meter former Soviet vessel which is capable of carrying 50 aircraft or helicopters. Although the carrier's size is daunting, the Liaoning is an older vessel that's prone to mechanical problems. It's more of a test carrier than an actual tool for Chinese force projection.

    China is hoping to rectify that problem with an indigenously produced carrier that Beijing hopes will be ready by the 2020s. Currently, the carrier is still in the development stage and is not yet under construction.

    India has similar carrier-related problems to China. Although it has three vessels, the Viraat is set to be retired next year and the Vikrant, though set to premier in 2018 or 2019, is years behind in delays and cost overruns. That leaves only the Vikramaditya operational — although, like the Liaoning, it's a repurposed Soviet carrier built in the early 1980s that suffers from frequent mechanical problems.
    [​IMG]
    India's Indigenous Aircraft Carrier P-71 "Vikrant", built for the Indian Navy, leaves Cochin Shipyard after its launch in the southern Indian city of Kochi on August 12, 2013

    India also hopes to complete two indigenous carriers with US aid within the next decade, although the envisioned Vishal carrier has yet to progress out of the planning stage.

    Japan's Hyuga and Izumo-class aircraft carriers are currently only used for helicopters largely due the country's current pacifist constitution, which prohibits Japan from building military forces for anything other than self-defense. The Diplomat notes, though, that the Izumo-class carrier could be outfitted with F-35Bs in the future.

    Of all the carriers in Asia, Thailand's Chakri Naruebet is exceptional due to its small size and unique lack of capabilities. Constructed in the 1990s, the carrier today barely leaves port and has no dedicated aircraft fleet, due to funding shortfalls.


    Read more: Here's a chart of all the aircraft carriers in Asia - Business Insider
     
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  3. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    Japanese are making helicopter carriers which are essentially for SAR and commando deployment. Don't really see how it can be called a carrier. They may be able to field F-35B but the VTOL version is not on Japan's buy list.

    Similarly for Thailand. They aren't really making an aircraft carrier considering that their threat perception is weaker than them i.e. Cambodia in case of border conflicts or Islamic terrorists in south Thailand where a Jihad is raging. Again it is a smaller helicopter carrier than the Japanese one.

    The real makers of carriers are China and us.

    But IMHO, IN should focus on getting nuclear-powered battle cruisers where a small number of them can have devastating firepower. 3 carriers with half a dozen battle cruisers should be one hell of a combination.

    A naval confrontation with China won't happen. Not even when both of us are growing. China doesn't want to lose the pace of development and neither do we. They may have small skirmishes but nothing more.

    However, in the future, we both may face a rather fearsome enemy. As much as I dislike to admit it, it could be the US + NATO countries.
     
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  4. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    Somehow Russia was not in the list. Were the authors perceiving Russia as an extension of Europe?
     
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  5. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    Can u tell me HOW?

    There is no doubt US+Nato will attacks (In/Directly) China but how they attack India or on which basis.
     
  6. prohumanity

    prohumanity Regular Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    If any major nation oppose NATO war machine...that nation can be attacked...it doe snot matter..if that nation is Russia, China or India. But ..can NATO win ? I don't think so. The most likely outcome will be M.A.D. (mutually assured destruction) and collapse of global economy with unemployment reaching 80% in all western nations , with 90 % bank failing if these major nations launch a fierce cyber attack on NATO nations. M.A.D. for sure !
     
  7. grampiguy

    grampiguy Regular Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    I think you are travelling through some LA LA LAND. As far as I can see in future, there is not even one major or minor issue on which India and US+NATO can go to war. I rather see fair chances of India joining NATO in future if Chinese do not stop their aggressive and imperial designs on Asia. Already a rudimentary form of alliance of democracies is coming in shape in Asia. This QUAD of US, Japan, Australia and India has better prospects of realization in near future.

    Your projected scenario Sir, I believe, is a figment of imagination. I would rather ask what are you smoking? And why are you not sharing that good stuff with us?
     
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  8. prohumanity

    prohumanity Regular Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    I am smoking reality based on historical facts. How west used China to destroy Soviet Union...How West used Pakistan to threaten India for decades.....How West used Taiwan to intimidate China....How West used Iraq against Iran in 1980s.....THIS is a Pattern which keeps repeating.
    Now, Pakistan has become useless for west so they want to throw it in garbage can. Now, they are drooling to use India against China+ Russia. The goal is to create bitter enmity between India and China just like the way, they created enmity between India and Pakistan. Psychopathic behavior of west never change....Using one nation against other is their old habit. If you are not with us ..you are against us...is their philosophy. If West has problem with the rising China...let them deal with China by themselves...I don't think Indians have problem with rising China...its good for business and later, opens roads to prosperity thru inter Himalayan trade .
    Now, You suddenly remember that India is a democracy because West needs India to be used against China or Russia. India has been a democracy for last 65 years...BUT ..Pakistani dictators were the ones dear to West as they could be used . Supporting dictators and Royals is West's old dirty trick....Who was Hosni Mubarak? Who was Mussaraff ? King Abdulla? King of Jordan?So you think Indians do not understand history and Western plans ...you think you are the only smarty pants in the world who are born to control and dominate the world? Just wait...and see, in your life time ..you will see corroding western power and end of bullying.
    This declining empire of chaos and its lack of compassion for suffering humanity is going to come to bite it.....because the rest of the world is becoming militarily stronger by each day.....West will have to learn mutual respect and coexistence.
    Alright Grumpyguy....don't try to mislead Indians...West will not be allowed to use India for its continued hegemony.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
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  9. SajeevJino

    SajeevJino Long walk Elite Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    ,

    They can add four LHD too in the List

    we have a Tender and requirements for four LHD/LPD
     
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  10. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    Common sense.

    We won't be a very favorable country 10 years down the lane when our indigenous military capability, manufacturing capabilities, economic growth and global influence is 3-4 times our current abilities.

    We will then be seen as a competitor, in China's seat.

    Right now, our and US interests converge. But once you reach a certain level in global profile, any country will see us as either

    - a potential competitor (Countries of Next 11 grouping, European countries, USA)

    - a bully (Failed states of South Asia like Bangladesh and Pakistan)

    - a threat OR (Pakistan, Saudi etc)

    - an Ally (Nepal, Bhutan, Vietnam, Thailand, South Africa, LATAM countries, Russia, the Central Asian Stans etc)


    Even if we don't do anything bad against or for them.

    This is exactly where China is today.

    They are aggressive against us but aren't doing anything overtly against USA or NATO.

    If we look from a neutral (say, African or Latin American) perspective, there is no reason for US/NATO to be so aggressive against them.

    10 years down the lane, we will be in the same boat, and if Pakistan makes it beyond 2020 as a single country, it will be used against us as a bullwark.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
  11. prohumanity

    prohumanity Regular Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    Tserring22...I totally agree with you. You make a great point. To break Soviet Union...they befriended China and used Pakistan to create Islamic terrorists (Taliban and Mujahideens). Now, They want to repeat the same trick....befriend India to degrade China. This trick has worked for them in the past so they are trying it again. Anyone who does not come under control becomes the enemy. World domination to have unlimited profits is the goal. For this ,any amount of human blood ..they can shed...does not matter if the blood is Russian, Chinese, Indian or others. Any thing to make unlimited profits to feed the greedy ,bloody ,Godzilla and its little evil kid, Isra hell.
     
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  12. Scorpio69

    Scorpio69 Regular Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    Tshering22, I believe we should take advantage of the US to the best of our ability and try to drift the US away from Pakistan while funding Pakistani separatist movements so by 2030 Pakistan will be broken up. This way South Asia will be made up of India and Indian vassal states. At the present it would be wise to seek US help on our aircraft carriers but we should never be dependent on it.
     
  13. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    You got it.

    But tell me, why are you bringing Israel in the middle?

    They are only taking measures to protect their citizens. Most of these libtard channels show garbage against Israelis who are not at all like that.

    Personally speaking, I have been to Israel numerous times and the Arabs who are not into terrorism there live a much better, freer and happier life in Israel than Arabs in Islamic countries.

    Jerusalem, Bethelem and Haifa are some cities you will see good proof of that.

    These channels will never show you that side. Try visiting them rather than believing in Leftist-Islamist propaganda. You will be pleasantly surprised to see the ground reality in Israel which is very different and commendable for an Abrahamic religion to be so tolerant.
     
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  14. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    That is exactly what we are doing.

    And some idiots here are talking like PM Modi has sold India to USA, selling India to corporates, Ambani agent, Adani agent and crap like that.

    Right now, Indian and US interests converge. But it won't forever as we become more prosperous and powerful.
     
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  15. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    @Tshering22

    Are u missing something,What ever happened(even after china nato war) China will stay there with mammoth Population&Resources.Both Rus&Chi will always try to undermine US+Nato interests.

    So in 10yrs down the line 2 new powers emerge Chi,Ind.Apart from under dog Russia.US know China is Dragon in the room and it won't provoke India to join in either Rus or China camp.(Our interests differ but some are converge too)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  16. apple

    apple Tihar Jail Banned

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    Bit of a fearmongering article. Think MAY is the imperative term.

    India is operating and making carriers.

    China MAY be intending to make some carriers and MAY be operating one.

    Can't imagine that a hypothetical fleet of Chinese aircraft carriers would really change the balance of power in Asia much. Or, more precisely Japan's too close to China to be majorly concerned if they get carriers and India's too far away for it to make any difference. Might change the situation for the Philipines and the US, but the Philipines are too poor to take part in a Arms Race and America's not in Asia.

    Pretty sure, Russia's carrier (is it even operational?) has never been in the Pacific, let alone been based in Vladivostok. Conversely, the US seventh fleet has been/ is based in Asia and they are not on the list either.

    Since Japan and Thailand's "aircraft carriers" make that list, why not.

    Australia's two "aircraft carriers" could make the list then too, depending on how you define Asia.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
  17. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    India will never cede her sovereignty. Its far more likely that India will join the SCO than join NATO. You must be the one who is smoking some strong stuff if you think India is going to join NATO or become a puppet of US.

    India and US/NATO are co-operating now because our interest coincides for now. Thats about it. You are using India as a bulwark against China now and we are using you for strengthening ourselves to get to the point China is now and hopefully from there to the point where US/NATO is now. That is all there is to our relationship.
     
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  18. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    USA is playing a big part in Asia. They are shifting assets from the Pacific to Asia. They are also willing to share the Aircraft carrier technologies to India. Chinese threat can only be niullified when India, Japan and Australia come closer and have some agreements regarding sea trade and other security issues.

    Indian navy is rising fast and can match Chinese Indian ocean fleet that is announced recently.
     
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  19. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    Actually most of the arab muslim citizens of Israel are the strongest advocates of Israel!

    I remember watching an interview of a muslim citizen of Israel where he said "Just because I am an Arab, it does not mean I am stupid. I would much rather prefer to live in the free world of Israel than any of my Arab neighbours":laugh:
     
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  20. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    And twenty years down the line, we would be as powerful as US is "TODAY". What will happen then? Do you think US will leave India alone if it has as much influence as US has right now?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  21. apple

    apple Tihar Jail Banned

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    Re: This chart shows how China,India,and Japan are competing to develo

    That's been the only strategically coherent statement Obama's come up with. Will be interesting (well it wont really) to see how that turns out.

    Moving assets from Puget Sound and San Francisco to Pearl Harbor, isn't quite the same as keeping, at all times, four carrier groups, on operations, in the South China Sea.

    But we'll see what develops.
     
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