How China beats India hollow in trade ....what is MODI doing about it ?

Discussion in 'Economy & Infrastructure' started by roma, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    Friends it is no use asking our jawans to fight on the border when we are actually giving the enemy better weapons and equipment and then asking our men to fight a battle which is slanted against them because we are giving the enemy better arms ......where is the sense in it ?

    we are not fighting a total war but they are ! ...we have in our thinking, disjointed the economy from physical fighting ....is that how intelligent we are ?? in reality one area supports or pulls down the other ...it is a war with many facets or departments and each one of these has to be in top shape, otherwise the enemy will see a gap and move in and divide and conquer - which is exactly what is happening at Doka La

    ats the point of dveloping PAKFA and then giving them huuuuge money to do r&D to have something equivalent at lower costs , they win in manufacturing and r&d and we supported them for it , then we try to defend ourselves ?

    economy is part of the war and we are not seeing it !

    please read the full article ....it is a good one , but ultimately ACTION by the modi govt is required otherwise with all his travelling abroad and shaking hands an all that he has failed !


    we lose territory while he make a name for himself ....another Nehru !

    we need to take an integrated approach otherwise they are applying divide and rule yet again , in a different way but still it works for them and they become our new colonialist



    How China beats India hollow in trade and dominates Indian homes, markets and economy

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-markets-and-economy/articleshow/59616193.cms

    <
    Aggressive pricing on the back of state subsidy, a protectionist outlook and cheap finance have allowed Chinese manufacturers to outprice their domestic counterparts. Products of Vikram Solar are 8-10% costlier than Chinese imports.

    China seems to be grabbing most of it. "The US and Europe are taking measures to protect themselves against Chinese dumping
    . We have instead offered them a direct train to the Indian market. The government must ring fence Indian firms to allow them to grow," says Chaudhary.

    About a decade back, the traders often used to source products — toys, plastic buckets, idols of Indian gods, among others — from domestic manufacturers. In toys alone, Yadav knows many Indian manufacturers who employed 500-plus people and were their suppliers. "
    They have all shut down and now import from China. Cheaper and better Chinese imports have wiped out the domestic industry," says Yadav.

    On the border, India is trying to ward off Chinese aggression. In the cold Himalayan plateau, temperatures have shot up as an old political rivalry heats up. India and China are sparring over the Doklam tri-boundary area (the third country being Bhutan), near Chicken's Neck which connects India's north-eastern states to the rest of the country.

    Shrill calls for a boycott of Chinese goods are getting louder, with the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and its affiliate, the Swadeshi Jagran Manch, joining in and social media networks amplifying the noise.

    ( my comment is that these calls WILL NOT WORK without replacing the china products ....just social action on the streets is hardly the issue .... we need to support our own manufacturing with whatever tariffs it takes and make sure our replacement strategy grows and eventually comes of age ! .....otherwise it is a lot of hot air without substance ! )

    But deep inside India, at homes and in markets, in economy and in trade, Chinese dominance is a reality. "Although
    lopsided, .......

    on a related note ...i seriously fear that india will not survive if we keep this kind of management
    where we have 30 yr delay in managemtn of defence

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...trials-on-in-pokhran/articleshow/59617196.cms
    NEW DELHI: Exhaustive field trials are being carried out on two long-range ultra-light howitzers in Pokhran which the Indian Army received from the US after a gap of 30 years since the Bofors scandal broke out, an official said.

    if this is the way the ocuntry is ging to be run , then immigrate fast !

    already Huawei brand is capturing the market and a few holdouts like me are paying more to avoid it and buy other brands eg Korean - ...and meanwhile where is our AKASH tablet ? i dont see it on the european markets ? ...is it sold in india ?

    only solution is - stop playing with your vote - get rid of the kejri's , lalus' and mayawats, trinamools in the system , the karats' then the country has a chance otherwise start learning mandarin ! because indian culture for lack of economic support will be wiped out like tibetan has been done in


    friends this could be one of my last long posts to all of you ....time is playing its role ....Brigadier Ray who was once a part of this forum is no more with us ..... time calls us out sooner or later ... so please heed my last advice ...im not sure how much longer i might be with you all .
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
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  3. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well said! For those who want to boycott Chinese goods, would need to stay in a tree house without all the gizmos one is used to - from mobile phones to computers to TV sets to solar panels and bulbs. Even 'Indian' mobiles have Chinese parts in them!! Lol!

    Ok, guys check out this video. Is it possible to really boycott Chinese goods?

     
  4. Satybharat

    Satybharat Regular Member

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    It will take time ...we need to improve our manufacturing before talking about beating china
     
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  5. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    that's for sure , but we can and MUST make a start ....

    for a start we must insist that any china product must at least be ASSEMBLED in india ..... i know people will call it a screwdriver job but at least we are getting some value out of it better than before and the cost to us will therefore be less eg save on manpower give employment to our folks instead of theirs and save shipping costs insurance etc etc

    they will employ our managers although the top man can be from china ....we must not like packland allow large numbers of them on our land and they cant have many managers in the company ... only top man and of course much of the profit will go to them so that is enough , we cant give them more than that

    at the moment , we are selling our market very cheaply to them and they are laughing at our stupidity

    it is a start but we must not stop there !

    eventually we have to do what they are doing ....support our own manufacturers with tariffs easy bank .loans maybe govt loans, marketing support ....china talks free trade but practices something else ,,, we can copy that too

    but we need someone and a committee or something to get the whole thing started because without making a start, we are just a sucker for china to destroy !

    hope mods will allow the cross-post as it has relevance here ( in fact more then in orig thread ) ....yes and we need to pus hard for it ...because with trump nothing serious will get done ...he is all for talking tough against china but in reality he did little .. it was election talk ---- we have to push for it ....can we , will we , otherwise ti is just a plan on paper !

    they gave their industry protection until they could stand up to international competition ..... we have to do something similar and not fall for the free trade stupidity ....no one allows their 2 year old child to go to the marketplace and compete do they ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
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  6. abu bakr

    abu bakr Regular Member

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    indian government need to follow the same economic policies that south korea, taiwan and china followed in late 20th century. we cant grow without developing our manufacturing industry.

    this is a nice article
    How Chinese Subsidies Changed the World
    https://hbr.org/2013/04/how-chinese-subsidies-changed
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
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  7. Bhumihar

    Bhumihar Jako Rakhe Saiyan Mar Sake Na Koi

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    Can U explain me what South Korea did or even provide a link?
     
  8. Yggdrasil

    Yggdrasil Regular Member

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    Again, we really need to stop looking at the government like our father and our mother.

    The government can only do so much. Don't like Chinese products? Stop buying them. But our middle-class whiners can't live without their rubbish gadgets or won't pay 10 to 20% higher for a non-made-in-China device.

    I bet that if the government takes action and imposes tariffs, the childish middle-class will revolt and start murmuring and say "Pappu is better only, he will make everything cheaper".

    Remember how Vajpayee was betrayed by middle-class voters?

    Unless Indians learn how to ORGANISE properly and think collectively instead of in terms of caste, language, region, religion, political affiliations, we are doomed.
     
  9. abu bakr

    abu bakr Regular Member

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    Lg samsung and hyundai all these companies were funded by south korean government, and china is doing the same
    here is a nice article
    https://hbr.org/2013/04/how-chinese-subsidies-changed
     
  10. Coalmine

    Coalmine Regular Member

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    We have given orders for metro trains to china. When we have capacity why are we ordering it. Also some news of Bsnl thinking of chinese optic cables and network equipments, when we can do away with it.
     
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  11. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    thank you for your good post which i liked
    this kind of stupidity needs to be posted on Modi forehead , much that i DO like the guy

    he is one heck of an improvement over the past leaders

    but he is NOT gonna get a free ride either .... we put him there to work and btw he got a great reception in israel but be aware the israel wanted to sell defence stuff to china and was blocked by usa as that stuff woul help china grow BIIIIG in defence

    so even israel is not really a friend when they sell stiuff to china

    ultimately we haev to stand on our own .... and so too we haw to get modi to work and not just travel here and there shaking hands although well , some of it is necessary

    what has he done or is doing to change the ridiculous 50 bilion surplus we are giving to china ?

    that question does not go away .....he has to answer it !!!!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
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  12. Akshay Fenix

    Akshay Fenix Regular Member

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    Question why is Vikram Solar Limited products 8-10% expensive than Chinese branded companies?
     
  13. Yggdrasil

    Yggdrasil Regular Member

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    This is 100% bribery at work.

    I've seen the way the PRC companies do business, and most contracts are won through corruption.

    I don't know if Modi is even aware.
     
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  14. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    this forum should haev some linkage with both the defense and economic ministries of india

    he already gave the answers which are in the original article which i did not quote in full , so pls read the orig ...... that they get government help in tariffs against foreign competitors and easy loans etc etc
     
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  15. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    China will continue to beat India in trade
    secondly India has no plans to develop have industries like China has.
    The Make in India would basically seem to be only in defence. Which is huge profit.

    But's that a really advantageous as local industries would learn from it. And by the way India doesn't require too much FDI as in industrialisation in other sectors. Small business will get destroyed.
     
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  16. IndianHawk

    IndianHawk Senior Member Senior Member

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    Here is a different take on the matter.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/07/16/how-india-beats-china-at-trade/?s=Economy
     
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  17. Akshay Fenix

    Akshay Fenix Regular Member

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    Because that company does nothing but screwdriver giri. All the components are imported, even cables and alluminium frames. For which they have no control over price which is why compared to china, their products are more expensive. :pound:
     
  18. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Destination of China's exports, 2016.
    US: 18.4%
    EU: 16.2%
    Hong Kong: 13.7%
    ASEAN: 12.2%
    Japan: 6.2%
    S Korea: 4.5%
    India: 2.8%

    (China Govt)

     
  19. KumarG

    KumarG Regular Member

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    Macroeconomics is better viewed from a larger perspective than from individual examples. That said, the author has made a good point which I am not entirely sure he consciously wanted to make - that exports / imports are only part of the overall picture, which needs to be viewed in its entirety unlike what most of the analysts are doing in this discussion.

    First off, we need to understand that drivers of GDP growth are Consumption (C), Investment (I) [which is more about building capacity], Government spending (G) [which is where fiscal discipline comes into the picture], and net eXports (X).

    Chinese growth was largely fuelled by X and I in 1980s to 2008, and from a mixture of G (indirectly) and X since. At the same time, USA economy grew during the same period largely predicated upon domestic C and I, and on G since 2008. Without going into too much detail or pitfalls of either, my point is - there are various models for economic growth, and exports are dominant in one.

    Which brings me to Balance of Payments. The trading (ex-im) accounted for in Current Account is funded by the money from Capital Account. India has started running a BOP surplus, which means our current account is smaller than our capital acc.

    All of which, in simple terms, means the FDI which we are getting is being used to build capacity first for domestic C and then, in a decade or two, for global X. In this backdrop, relying on Chinese imports becomes a question of trade-offs - use cheaper consumables to stimulate domestic C while using FDI to build capacity for larger industries (hint, Make in India), or stop Chinese imports to protect small industries by having domestic C suffer and have some FDI diverted.

    PS: the Chinese subsidies which boost their industries have been paid by CCP through visible / invisible banking, which has built excess capacity and might not even be sustainable for much longer.
     
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  20. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Just curious...

    Chinese opened their bond market worth 9 trillion $ to international players last week.

    How does it impact Chinese economy in the future?
     
  21. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    Aunti Ji started a very good post.

    I have already stopped buying Chinese stuff for many years(before these stand off's at border) and shell out bit extra so the money revolves in India only specially to the poor classes whose trade has been hit badly due to cheap Chinese crap.The trade deficit is too much.I have already convinced many who also have stopped buying Chinese products and told many shop keepers not to keep it and they indeed have started putting more Indian stuff.

    Yesterday saw in school that heard that Principals of about 2000 schools in Maharashtra have asked their school kids and parents not to buy and they have stopped buying it and ready to buy local stuff on a bit extra money.Also Chinese stuff glitters but not durable and has low quality.Also saw in programs that due to people informed there is a significant decline in Chinese sales and shopkeepers have started keeping less Chinese stuff.

    In India there is a bhedchaal (ratrace) which means we start doing something only when there is a trend but never initiate a trend based on logic.

    We cant keep blaming govt all the time and WE also have to take action. :dude:

    We people lack self-responsibility and blame others so whether its govt or other things. :nono::nono:


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