Historical Existence of Jesus

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by Waffen SS, Jan 19, 2014.

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Was Jesus a Historical figure?

  1. Yes, Jesus existed, had miracle powers and was son of God

    25.0%
  2. Yes, Jesus existed but was not son of God, but was kind man and social reformer.

    58.3%
  3. No, Jesus did not exist

    16.7%
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  1. Waffen SS

    Waffen SS New Member

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    Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So what do you think? Did Jesus Christ really exist? Or not?

    Option-1) Yes, Jesus existed and had "miracle powers" and was son of God.

    2) Yes, Jesus existed but he was not son of God and did not have miracle powers, but was kindhearted man and social reformer.

    3) No, Jesus did not exist.

    Sources for the historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Christ myth theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Historical Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    @civfanatic, @happy, @Armand2REP, @Damian, @Ray, @trackwhack @Rage.
     
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  3. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    According to christopher catherwood in his book ' brief history of the middle east ' , jesus did exist and was the result of an illicit union between his mother mary who was a jewish woman and a roman soldier .
     
  4. happy

    happy Senior Member Senior Member

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    I think this is a very lame thread. I don't understand what you are trying to prove or un-prove. Also the tone of your post as well as your poll is in the past tense which is factually wrong. It should be in the present tense.

    JESUS is NOT ONLY THE PAST BUT ALSO THE PRESENT AND THE FUTURE.

    History itself revolves around JESUS !!!

    JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD. HE IS GOD PERSONIFIED in the form of man.
     
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  5. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    any proof for your statements ??
     
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  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    He was a historical figure.

    Not having met God, I cannot for sure vouchsafe his or anybody else equation with God.

    In fact, God existed or exists is what some wonder.

    I say, each to his own belief.
     
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  7. rvjpheonix

    rvjpheonix Regular Member

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    Keep all your proof with yourselves. Science has constantly kept changing over the decades, my faith has not. Even in the darkest times and places I have looked to my God and he has answered me. Its upto you to believe it or not. Relegion is something you experience not understand with proof.The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
     
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  8. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    Very well said friend.
     
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  9. Mr.Ryu

    Mr.Ryu Regular Member

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    Yes Agreed, You cant ask proof for FAITH
     
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  10. happy

    happy Senior Member Senior Member

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    The very existence of man is proof enough. The universe is filled with wonders which stand as HIS witnesses.

    From the smallest living organism to the unfathomable depths of the Universe there is proof of GOD.

    It is man's lack of understanding that prompts him to ask for proof of GOD.

    Just look into your body....what do you see ??? How many parts are there in your body ??? How many years does it take to study the human body ??? How many more years to become a specialist on a certain part ???

    If it takes so long for you to know so less about a finite part of your own body, how long more will it take for you to know about the infinite GOD ???

    JESUS is GOD OF THE LIVING and NOT OF THE DEAD. That is why we preach CHRIST CRUCIFIED, CHRIST RISEN and CHRIST ALONE !!!
     
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  11. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    Well said. Hence proved.
     
  12. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Actually, you should.

    It is understood that all those defending faith must rely on prayers. So, think about this.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Mr.Ryu

    Mr.Ryu Regular Member

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    Lame fools wordings :p

    I would say
    "Because i already
    know what you want;
    i just want you to work hard for it"
     
  14. happy

    happy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well, if you want to take it that way, who am I to say no ??? !!!

    IMHO, GOD knows what you want and what you need. HE answers promptly IF you believe in HIM.

    YET, your faith is directly proportional to receiving an answer for prayer. For "ASK AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE" is as much important as "FAITH AS SMALL AS A MUSTARD SEED CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS".
    @Mr.Ryu GOD is not asking anyone to work hard for receiving HIS gift. HE wants us to come to HIM as small children. We can understand this very clearly through HIS Word. HE is a GOD of love, mercy and kindness and forgiveness...in fact, HIS good qualities are endless.

    I am not worthy to speak for GOD. I believe that pureness of heart, mind, soul and body will enable a person to know GOD more intimately.
     
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  15. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Basically it's not love or any real belief. It is fear and obedience that compels faith in God. The love is just "assumed."

    A parent loves a child even if the child ends up making major mistakes, but God's "love" comes with strings attached.

    If there was a "real" God, within the basic tenets of Christianity, then that God should be able to love everyone equally, without a person fearing retribution of any sort. There should be no difference between a good guy and a bad guy in the eyes of God. But there is. And a gift is given depending on his/her actions.

    Faith and prayer are fictional creations, and that's why there are a lot of holes in your idea. There are plenty of people who have worked very, very hard, who have had utmost faith in God and still haven't been answered their prayers.

    Take the 10 Commandments.

    Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
    The first law itself is binding. It does not allow you to rebel. A sign of being chained. Primarily designed to kill competition.

    Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
    The second commandment is designed to completely chain mankind's greatest gift, his imagination.

    Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
    The third commandment is "complete obedience."

    Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    Gives the sheep a days rest. This keeps the workers happy. Gives them a false belief of control. We aren't talking about modern labor laws with one or two days of paid leave, we are talking about times in the past where workers were worked to death. Giving them a respite of a day a week by being a Jew or a Christian was a major relief, but you get this by only following the Lord God. A very nice choice to have.

    The following commandments are what you would say is obvious and is quite well represented in the animal kindgom too, especially among higher mammals. Even animals punish each other for breaking these natural rules.
    Honour thy father and thy mother.
    Thou shalt not kill.
    Thou shalt not commit adultery.
    Thou shalt not steal.
    Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
    Thou shalt not covet.

    Basically four binding laws that binds a person to the "faith" and 6 very, very general statements that changes (or are ignored) to suit the purpose of the ruler, be it the ruling class or the clergy.

    For a restricted mind, there is no room for escape.

    A prayer is a combination of the 4 binding laws. Enslave the mind (1st commandment), restrict the mind (2nd), obey the rules (3rd), receive a gift (4th).

    You build certain rules for prayer, without knowing whether it really works or not, and you enslave yourself to these rules. The rule can be as simple as your statement, "your faith is directly proportional to receiving an answer for prayer." Then you restrict the mind by not allowing anybody to question these rules by either punishing them physically like done during the Middle Ages or by promising a one way ticket to Hell. Then you enforce these rules by invoking the 3rd commandment where no one shall take His name in vain, of course with the punishments included. The result is the 4th commandment, where you receive your gift. Of course, there is nobody to test it and you getting your gift depends on something that really cannot be quantified, faith. There is really nobody to tell you how much faith you need to get a gift of an appropriate value. But somehow all of this is quite convenient for a restricted mind.

    Basically, you are "requesting" somebody superior to you for something that you yourself cannot attain alone. That's what the cartoon refers to as "beg." And when you ask for something without providing anything real in return, you tell me if that's begging or not? Or is it possible that the rules change when we ask for something from God, just like the last 6 commandments?

    Anyway, this is just my opinion. And I made up all of the above as I typed, so you won't find it elsewhere. Naturally, bound by the first four commandments, you will resist this opinion, but as it has always been, to each his own. I am just saying not to take such things for granted.
     
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  16. happy

    happy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yeah...I agree that this is your own opinion and it may also be shared by others.

    IF as you said GOD's love is with strings attached, you should be dead by now for committing blasphemy because GOD does not take time for retribution or judgement. Pity you could not grasp this simple fact.

    GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE !!!

    Now the above statement is as simple as it gets....if you want to dig deeper you are free to do so, because, GOD still loves you and hopes that you might realize the truth someday before you die !!!
     
  17. PredictablyMalicious

    PredictablyMalicious Punjabi Senior Member

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  18. happy

    happy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Just to give you a perspective of how wrong you are in your assumptions, I choose to answer your every sentence albeit in a general tone.

    In the days before JESUS came to this world, it was as you said and yet the amount of sacrifices that man made for the atonement of sins was not sufficient to become Holy. Hence JESUS came into this world as a sinless sacrifice and made atonement for the sins of man thereby HE re-wrote the entire law.

    "Spare the rod and spoil the child"...I'm sure you have heard of this saying. If a child does not have fear of punishment, he/she is bound to cultivate bad habits that play a destructive role in his/her future. If I may remind you, a parents love for his child cannot save a child from escaping the gallows even according to human law.

    GOD loves everyone equally...good or bad, black or white, murderer or saint. The basic fact that he allows everyone to enjoy his creation equally is testament to HIS LOVE.

    If faith and prayer seem to be fictional in your POV, let it be so. Unless a man experience the Presence of GOD, these things do have a tendency to appear fictional.

    YES. GOD is ZEALOUS. HE wants HIS children to have unwavering belief and faith in HIM alone. I don't suppose your parents would like it very much if you keep calling everyone you see as MOM and DAD !!!

    This commandment is intrinsically related to the first commandment. Because when you start having another gods you will start creating its images. Why do you suppose India has 3.3 crore gods ???

    Naturally, obedience is part and participle of what a parent teaches his child.

    About the bold part, I sincerely do not know if that is true in the olden days.

    But coming to the coloured part, GOD made all days Holy. Even the Pharisees took grudge against JESUS for breaking their Sabbath.

    I do not know if man has suddenly become equal to an animal, because GOD has created man to be above and lord over all living animals and plants on the planet earth.

    Funny that these so called binding rules have been implemented in legal practices world over. I wonder what would be your opinion about IPC ??? Selective blindness, eh??

    A prayer is a supplication. It is a way of communication. If you want to bind yourself by these commandments, it is your wish but there is no rule as such.

    Again I repeat, prayer is a way of communicating with GOD. Whether you receive what you ask for or not depends on the relationship you have with GOD.

    Not someone just "superior" but the ONE who created us. As I said before, if you want to take it as begging, no harm done. What can you possibly think of that GOD would want from you?? Your money ?? Gold ?? Riches ?? Your car or house or job perhaps ??? Hilarious ain't it to even think that you can buy something from GOD ??? Rather, foolishness it is.

    There is nothing that you can offer GOD except your broken and humble spirit acknowledging your sins and begging for forgiveness if I may put it in your words. The 10 Commandments have never and will never change. In fact, the entire law is based on them.
     
  19. sydsnyper

    sydsnyper Senior Member Senior Member

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    @happy your faith, is your choice, irrespective of what others think of it.

    But what about those that do not believe in jesus as the son of god or call god by other names, what of them :namaste:

    @civfanatic - you are missing a gem of a thread....

     
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  20. parijataka

    parijataka Senior Member Senior Member

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    Do believe in a historical Jesus Christ and that he was surely some kind of an avatar ! But not in the propaganda of his followers that followers of all other faiths are condemned !
     
  21. happy

    happy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Exactly. As I said before in this very thread, the encounter with GOD will enlighten a man. I believe that there is and there can be only ONE GOD. The rest are figments of man's imagination. I do not mean any disrespect to any individual.

    My request for everybody irrespective of their religion is to search for GOD. In my experience, if you truly search for GOD, you will find HIM. And then no matter what one might say, you will cling to your GOD.
     
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