Hindutva losing steam--was the whole movement a mistake?

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by ashdoc, Aug 14, 2010.

  1. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    The late eighties saw the upsurge for the first time in centuries of hindu political consiousness--as the ram temple movement crystalised the idea of hindutva , a concept elucidated by Veer Savarkar decades ago , but which was brought to the forefront only by the ram temple movement.

    The TV serial ramayan helped to bring to limelight the issue of ram janmabhoomi in ayodhya..........as the whole nation used to come literally to a standstill when the serial was aired ........inspite of its shoddy production values.

    So much so ,that when the serial on the life of krishna was to be aired , the government of the day was so scared that the krishna janma bhoomi issue in mathura would also become important ,that it refused to let it get aired for a while ........and later agreed to airing it only on DD metro channel , which was available only in the major cities.

    The sangh parivar tried to unite the hindus who prayed to different gods by making them devotees of ram and ram only.

    The next decade saw the demolition of the babri masjid ,communal riots ,bomb blasts .........which finally culminated in the BJP led NDA coming to power.

    But today with the NDA losing repeated national elections , and the BJP in a mess ,hindutva seems to be on its way out.........or so it seems.

    Except in gujrat , the hindutva ideology has found little firm base .

    In MP the BJP has won repeated elections , but this state has a muslim population of hardly five percent ,and winning here is easy .

    Today ,when I talk to the same friends who were fired by the nationalistic zeal a decade a ago , they get bored of the topic and dont seem to get worked up by the same bomb blasts and acts of terror which used to anger them in earlier days.........even though the terrorism has increased , not deceased........

    The maharashtrians among them who earlier supported shiv sena nowadays follow Raj thakeray and fulminate against the hapless migrants from UP bihar ,since they are not capable of retaliating ..........and dont have the guts to attack the muslims , who can strike back.

    Of course , the unleashing of capitalism by P V Narsimha rao has not helped the hindutva cause , as upper caste hindus--the BJP's support base-- are now more interested in making money and spending it in shopping malls , good restaurants ........and above all , in stability ,which is the only way that the moolah can keep on rolling in .......

    For example , if a riot occurs , the first thing that gets affected is the economy of that particular city or state..........something that today's pleasure interested people can hardly afford---I mean literally---as the moolah that fuels their enjoyment is cut off.........

    So who wants hindu-muslim tensions ? ......which will only bring riots and instability ...........and so hindutva has to take a back seat..........

    To come to the main question ,was the whole hindutva movement a mistake ???............one certainly feels so ,considering the soft nature of the hindus .......

    Of course ,there is no doubt that in absolute terms ,there was need for a party , indeed a movement to take care of the interests of hindus.

    But if such a movement is started , it should naturally culminate in hindus dominating the country ,and achieving their goals of common civil code , abolition of article 370 , building of ram mandir etc.

    Instead , the movement failed to achieve these goals , but in trying to raise them it only succeeded in antagonising the muslims , some of whom took the support of pakistan ........the most spectacular example being dawood ibrahim , who shifted bag and baggage to pakistan , and also thereby shifted the support of some people of his konkani muslim community ........earlier India supporters........to pakistan.

    Many bomb blasts occured ,acts of terror became more commonplace , due to co-operation of a few indian muslims.

    Here I am not accusing the whole muslim community of being in cahoots with pakistan ,but a small minority has co-operated with pakistan and has helped pakistans schemes of terrorism in India.

    On the other hand , the hindus , after getting initially excited by the movement ,left it midway ,thus achieving double trouble ......not only the original goals of hindutva remain unachieved , but now the muslims are angry , which means that more bomb blasts are surely on the way..........

    In fact what has been revealed has been the soft nature of hindus , the fact that they buckle when under real pressure.

    Considering the soft nature of hindus ,their inability to face up to violence for long ,was the hindutva movement ,a naturally violent movement ,to be honest unsuited to the hindu nature ,a complete mistake ??

    Was Savarkar --the head honcho and initiater of the hindutva movement--wrong?

    Was he trying to fit a miltaristic ideology on a nation not naturally suited to such ideologies and adventures.........and divided by caste and language basis anyway........??

    Was he the wrong man in the wrong place ?

    It seems the congress has the gurukilli to manage India .......by mollifying the muslims' sentiments ,above all else........and thus maintaining the peace.....

    For if you cant fight with someone.........the muslims, in this case......its better to buy peace with him by giving concessions.

    So ,was hindutva all wrong ??
     
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  3. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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    Hinduism as a Religion has been Tolerant, but when you say that Hindutva failed because Hindus are peaceful, then it cuts across the "human" factor. We Humans, Be it, Muslims or Christians can turn Violent, and take up Violent ways, and this is not Connected to any Religion I honestly feel. At the Most, somebody can use "religion" as a scapegoat when it comes to such violent events. Its basically the Human Factor at work, not Religious.

    Now Being, Hindutva a Failure, well it is a failure because it was started by people with Selfish Ideas. The BJP never wanted to Build a Ram Mandir, they just wanted to be in Power, and they took the masses to be a-ss-es. Hence they failed, and with them, the movement they started too is on the way down.

    And About the Muslim Community being angry at the Hindus, thats utter non sense. I am from the Muslim Community, and I dont see my folks being sore at the Hindus for Demolishing the Babri Masjid. Yes, Muslims might be sore at Uma Bharati and Advani and all the gang which made the demolition possible, but hating the whole Hindu Community? I dont think so.

    Do You, or other Hindus Hate the whole of the Muslim Community, because some zealot places a bomb?? Do Muslims Hate all Hindus, because some Fanatic bombs a mosque or a train or pulls down a mosque? I Dont think So! If that was the Case, Me or My Family Wouldnt have been able to Live in India and practice our Religion Freely! And Neither would any Temple or Mosque be safe again for worship as they all would have been firebombed by each community!!! God Speed
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2010
  4. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    The BJP and sena also erred in trying to ape the islamic fundamentalists and opposing valentines day , preventing couples from smooching at places like five gardens in mumbai ( the double seats there were removed and single seats put in place ) or band stand in bandra in the name of culture etc.

    beating pub going women also created a negative image about them.

    many of my friends ( even male ) joined the pink chaddi campaign to protest against it.

    beating couples on valentines day must have not endeared them to young people who want to flaunt their love ,and celebrate romance.

    certainly many of its acts were anti-women's freedom ,and the modern woman who likes to wear jeans and top was hardly going to like all this .

    instead of proving that they are different from islamic fundamentalists ,they became more like them

    the hindus who supported the sena and BJP to oppose fundamentalism ( the islamic variety ) found themselves confronted by a similar fundamentalism ( the hindu variety ) which was impinging on their lives more than islamic fundamentalism.
    __________________
     
  5. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Hindutva in the real sense was mixed with a little bit of extremism and politicised. Though when asked BJP harps on the real meaning of hindutva being a way of life. But in practical sense, it has propagated an extremist ideology. Now the main thing is that it used this to get into power. It worked for a good 10 years on this format and won in 98. But then when it came to power, it realized sitting in the opposition it can talk about anything, but when in power its a different ball game altogether. You cannot run a government based on extreme ideology. It had to work on nation building at the turn of the millennium. It was no different from Congress in its policy. Be it on foreign or economic policies. Even on terror, though it calls Congress a failure on terror and talks about a more aggressive policy, it was no better when in power when major terror attacks took place.

    People also realize now (i hope a large majority of them) that what matters more is their personal lives. I mean what are you going to gain from all this? They need the basic "roti, kapda aur makaan". My personal opinion is that may be people dont bother about mandir masjid anymore. They all want to work in a booming india to make money for themselves and secure their future as well as their families.
     
  6. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    All those so called Hindu parties who tried to rip political gains of representing them as Hindu organization are totally snubbed by the masses of India. Nobody cares is that temple going to come or not. A sensible, educated Indian needs employment security, income hikes & stable society to live in.

    No wonder RSS took out its open support to such parties, organizations. Even RSS has realized that these are not the goals of its very foundation.

    Any movement based just on extreme religious views will never succeed in country like India. So in turn any such movement will loose its steam, fade away & will be forgotten in the known time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2010
  7. samarsingh

    samarsingh Regular Member

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    in other democracies political parties are based on political or economic ideologies , in our country the world's largest democracy, unfortunately it is easier to rouse the masses using caste, region and religion. BJP's hindutva is a part of it, so is BSP's "Bahujan" samaj , All India Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen politcs in Hyderabad, SS and MNS's regional chauvinism. As a patriot I want all these experiments to fail, but the alternative Congress, Communists, Naxalites are no good either. The other regional parties are just as opportunistic. On the eve of our 64th independence day I do not wish to sound too pessimistic. So I hope with increasing economic prosperity our people with vote for real issues and our MP's will debate real issues in the parliament (and if they are too fond of flowers, I hope they exchange bouquets and stop hurling flower pots at each other)
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2010
  8. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    What is hindutva??? can any one define it?????
     
  9. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    Hindu Youth

     
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  10. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Ah... the confused youths........
    So the question still the same what really is hindutva?????
     
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  11. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    All secular countries have a right wing Nationalist party and a secular centrist party.
    Islamic countries declare themselves as Islamic republics .So there is no need for a right wing party.

    In India Congress party was the centrist secular party since the beginning of freedom movement.
    And since India is a Hindu majority country ,It was a just a matter of time that A right wing Hindu party would emerge as AN ALTERNATIVE.

    Since there was no alternative to the congress It wasted 45 years from 1947 to 1991. After 1991 BJP became powerful because of Ram Mandir Movement.

    So emergence of BJP has helped in strengthening democracy .Congress cannot take people for granted.
     
  12. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    when savarkar elucidated the idea of hindutva ,he meant that the hindus had to rise and literally dominate the indian nation .

    the muslims had to call themselves as mohamedan hindus and the christians had to call themselves christy hindus etc.

    for achieving such a goal ,the hindus had to unite ,first of all......forgetting caste and regionalistic differences.

    at that time ,the ram janmabhoomi movement was not important.

    when the hindutva forces were on the riise , savarkar was long dead , and the movement in the modern era had some goals like building of ram temple ,abolition of article 370 in kashmir ,common civil code etc.

    of course ,it was articulated by modern practical politicians like LK advani ,and had relatively realistic goals and ambitions ,unlike savarkar who was more of a dreamer , however lofty his dreams might have been.

    i am talking of it in terms of the upsurge of hindu miltancy that occured for some time due to it ........not literally its ideology .
    __________________
     
  13. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Hindutva being propagated by savarkar caused extremist ideology among his modern followers. Hindutva the real thing got forgotten.
     
  14. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    How can you define congress as centrist,rightist or leftist.its neither. Congress basically is a CON party which cons indians by jumping ideologies which ever suits it.
     
  15. Phenom

    Phenom Regular Member

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    Hindutva like every other political ideology has to adapt with time, but BJP has proved to be remarkably incapable of doing that. IMO, the biggest blow for BJP and Hindutva came when they failed to get Modi's resignation. The softer side of Hindutva was overwhelmed by the far-right and the whole image of hindutva got associated with violence. BJP could still salvage the whole project but its going to be pretty difficult.
     
  16. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Savarkar is not responsible for the fools today trying to secure vote bank in the exchange of temple. What vision Savarkar saw was in reference to the Hindu Rashtra i.e Hindustan i.e residents of India calling them Hindus; not necessarily extreme religious Hindus.

    Savarkar didn't create any extremist ideology. The nuts today do not represent Savarkar's ideology. Today's so called Hindu movements are greedy, selfish, short-sighted, misguided, without leadership & most of all bearing materialistic ambitions.
     
  17. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    If RAM mandir could have been handled peacefully BJP would not have emerged at all.
    The Congress party and Muslim leader ship could have tried for a compromise.

    BJP arguement was SIMPLE And Effective . AYODHYA is as dear to Hindus as Mecca is to Muslims.
    Since there is plenty of historical evidence that Hindu temples were demolished by Muslim rulers ,BJP peddled the lie that RAM mandir had been demolished by BABAR.

    IN EMOTIVE issues truth does not matter.
    Hindus wanted to sort out this matter peacefully but then demolition was perhaps inevitable.
    Because The refusal of Muslms angered hindus. EVEN congress leaders wanted demolition.
     
  18. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    First of of hindutva is not a political ideology.And those claims so are confused people and they are confusing others.Hindutva is is personal atonement of spiritual well being.
     
  19. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I agree with you bold part. The emergence of BJP or any other party to the national level has strengthened Indian Democracy. However, these Hindu-centric organizations doesn't seem to be united. If they stick together & actually make strong position on national level, they can actually hold the power. Although, the present movement has lost the direction.
     
  20. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    If I could, I would have triple thanked the post! Million $ words..! One of your best posts I have seen.. :happy_8: :emot112:

    This sums up quite indeed the very idea of Hindutva to a large extent & the present situation..
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2010
  21. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    no ,it is not merely so.

    hindutva was a term coined by savarkar originally ,and he certainly had political objectives in mind.
     

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