Hindu Mans Burden

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by OrangeFlorian, May 24, 2016.

  1. OrangeFlorian

    OrangeFlorian #GoldAndBlack Senior Member

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    Exhibit A: A bunch of Naxals were going to have a screening of anti-national propaganda, the institute didn’t allow them to do so. When they tried to cause trouble, the institute put their foot down and asked them to vacate the premises. This is the best way to solve the problem- nip it in the bud before it becomes a full fledged anti-national lobby group like Jamia and JNU. Anyway, Central government is going to take away the minority status of Jamia and AMU. There is no need for taxpayers money to be spent on Jihadi institutions so they could indulge in their little anti-national circlejerks. If minorities want to run minority institutions, let them fund it with their own money. India is a secular nation and it can’t be seen as favouring any particular religion. Next, India should stop paying Haj subsidies, why? Because India is a secular nation. The state have already stopped pampering the FTII Naxals and they have been asked to collect their leaving certificates and stop being a burden on the taxpayer. Tax-payer funded institutions cannot be used for anti-national purposes.

    The solution to these type of problems: Stop treating anti-nationals with kid gloves.

    The same treatment should be meted out to Muslims. The reason they love sickularism is because it allows them to be a parasite on Hindu tax money. If India starts following the French model of secularism, these snakes will get straightened within no time. No Burqa, no Haj subsidies and no reservations.

    Welcome to Secularism ver. 2.0

    Secularism cannot be a Hindu burden alone under this version.

    Hindu secularism must be reciprocal and proportional to Muslim secularism. It should not be compared with ‘ideal secularism’ but should be compared with how much ground Muslims have ceded in the secularism department.

    Many people will like to see India becoming a truly secular nation, which it clearly isn’t right now. At the moment, there are a lot of core issues which will continue to keep giving acidity to Hindus unless the status quo is changed. For example-

    1) Muslims are given autonomy over their religious institutions and donations, on the other hand Hindu temples are usurped by the government.

    2) Haj is given subsidy while Amarnath yatra is taxed.

    3) Ram Mandir is being presented as a petty real estate dispute despite it being the holiest place in Hinduism. Ram Mandir is to Hindus what Mecca is to Muslims.

    The pettiness shows in the fact that Muslims are contesting that land tooth and nail despite that land being of no significance to them religiously. This is being done just to spite Hindus. One can understand if the quarrel was about a piece of property which was religiously significant for both religions, like the Al-Aqsa mosque in Jarusalem, but this is not the case here. Ram Mandir was, in fact, one of the 40,000 temples which Muslim invaders destroyed to persecute the native Hindu population. The Hindu community holds no grudges against them for those 40,000 temples and have forgiven them unilaterally in the interest of peaceful co-existence (despite Muslims never having expressed remorse for the atrocities committed against Hindus). Instead of taking into consideration all those steps taken by Hindus in the direction of reconciliation, if Muslims show their petty mindedness by not even wanting to budge on one temple, then many Hindus will legitimately re-evaluate whether Muslims genuinely do want peaceful coexistence at all. The constitutional right (Article 25: Right to pray) of Hindus is violated every second Ram Mandir remains under Wakf control but it cannot go on forever.

    Reconciliation cannot be a one way street where Hindus keep making sacrifices while Muslims keep gnawing at their core interests and lecture them on secularism. This gives rise to a legitimate resentment against secularism, the way it is being practised, at the detriment of Hindus. Unfortunately Muslims in India still have that Mughal mindset where they think that secularism is a tax that only Hindus have to unilaterally pay towards Muslims, i.e. Jizya-2, and Muslims have to do nothing except relish the fruits of Hindu secularism. Muslims think secularism is an exclusively Hindu burden which is evident from their various stances ranging from refusal to sing national songs to saluting the flag based on religious doctrine. It is clear that they aren’t willing to budge even an inch from their religious hard line. They must realize that both communities have to take one step each to work towards a secular nation, it’s not an exclusively Hindu burden.

    The longer Muslims feign ignorance about these issues, the more incidents like Babri will occur when Hindu anger will inevitably erupt. No one wants to live as second-class citizens in their own country, humiliated by a minority which shamelessly proclaims that secularism is against Islam and claims to have no obligation to abide by secular values. If this status quo isn’t amended and Hindus decide to start mirroring the bigotry of Muslims, then imagine the kind of situation that will prevail in the nation. Remember how Kashmir Pandits were slaughtered as all those champions of secularism conveniently kept quiet while common Hindus helplessly watched in horror. The longer India ignores this problem, the more Hindus will walk over the fence and join the extreme right. In 2002, sixty innocent Hindu saints were burnt alive in a train and the resulting riot resulted in the death of 250 more Hindus still the secular media calls it ‘anti-muslim riot’, completely ignoring the deaths of Hindus. The most shameful part is that in all secular discussions the act of violently burning down sixty peaceful saints is completely ignored. Hindus cannot be expected to never respond when provoked. Fact is Hindus can’t keep playing the role of a punching bag to get a secularism certificate from Muslims or so called intelligentsia.

    If the government doesn’t protect their interests then Hindus will have no option left but to arm themselves to keep their families safe. Hindus have been killed with impunity since the Mughal era and it cannot continue forever. Nowhere does it say in the constitution that Hindus have to be secular. Secularism is the responsibility of the state towards its subjects, not that of Hindus towards other faiths. In the current scenario Hindus look up to the state to be secular while Muslims hardly care. But Muslim should not feel entitled to appeasement from fellow Hindus because the constitution does not say that it is the sole responsibility of the Hindus to make Muslims feel good. For too long Hindus have been paying this unilaterally enforced Jizya-2 under the twisted secularism that is followed in India. But no more!

    The imposition of sickularism or Jaziya-2 is nothing but a forced manifestation of the white Hindu man’s burden.
     
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  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    @OrangeFlorian, if this is not your original content, then please post a link. Please read the forum rules.
     
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  4. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    We need our very own right wing Hitler.
     
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  5. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    @OrangeFlorian @pmaitra Just read on wiki that in May 2012, Supreme Court has ordered GOI to end the Haj subsidy by 2022 and to gradually decrease the amount till then.

    Is this true? If so, what is the subsidy now? (In 2008, as per wiki it was US $ 1815 per muslim)

    Maybe @Navnit Kundu knows?
     
  6. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    @Kshatriya87, Muslims are supposed to use their own money to finance their Haj pilgrimage. They are not supposed to take money from others. Haj subsidy is against the laws of Islam, but anything goes for vote bank politics.
     
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  7. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    I know that. Even the supreme court judge said its unislamic. What I need to know is the status of that court order. Is the subsidy being abolished?
     
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  8. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    That's true. Here are some quotes by Supreme Courts

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haj_subsidy#Supreme_Court_order_to_abolish_Haj_subsidy

    There is an SC directive to reduce it gradually with the aim of eventually ending it, just like there is a constitutional directive that "the state shall work towards implementing a uniform civil code". We all know how well both of these directive principles are progressing.

    Here are further citations :

    Abolish haj subsidy in 10 years: Supreme Court to government

    How much Subsidy does the Government extend to Haj Pilgrims?

    Centre Mulls Ending All Pilgrimage Subsidies

    India's Hajj Subsidy Program To Be Cut Following Supreme Court Ruling
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
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  9. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    @sayareakd Sir might be able to give the current status. It is unclear whether anything has been done at all, or just a suggestion has been made by the courts.
     
  10. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    As per wiki, it clearly says its a court ORDER. So it must be enforceable. But I need a valid source with the status if possible.
     
  11. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    I've replied with the citations above.

    This directive is just like the UCC directive enshrined in our constitution. The constitution mandates that the "state shall work towards national integration and implement a UCC", even that hasn't progressed, so I'm not optimistic about this SC directive about cancellation of Haj subsidies.

    Last month SC was hearing a petition from 17,000 muslim women challenging triple talaq, and the SC had invited statements from stakeholders from religious scholars and Muslim law board said, even before the case could be concluded, that the SC has no standing as far as Muslim personal laws is concerned. I don't know what happened to the legal status of that case after that but it fizzed out of public memory for sure.
     
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  12. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    But the other part of the order didn't. The court order says abolish the subsidy and use that money for minority education.

    Right now if you go to government minorities website, you will see various appeasements there. One of them includes subsidy on education loan interest for minorities studying abroad. This infuriated me.

    This just means that the majority does not deserve this subsidy? What's so special about minorities? What if a minority student belongs to a multi-millionaire family? Yup, he still gets the subsidy.
     
  13. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    There are 2 parts to that SC statement, one is mere observation, which is not legally enforceable. The SC keeps making such 'observations' from time to time, for example they frequently keep asking the Center when Ganga cleaning project will conclude. These observations are not legally enforceable, they are merely suggestions for the legislators to consider and make a law if they want.

    In the same observation, the SC judge Aftab Alam has said
    So, it's not clear which one is the legally enforceable part here. Looks like the SC just provided a loophole for the lawmakers to exploit and so the subsidies continue unabated under one name or other.

    About all other appeasements in general, it all boils down to the hollowness of our leaders during 1947. Can you imagine? some thief comes into someone's house and says "this hall is mine" does anyone say "I disagree with you but I will still allow you to keep the hall"? that would be stupid right? that's how we negotiated the partition. Muslims said that Muslims and Hindus can't live together and claimed a piece of land only for Muslims, India said "we disagree, but we will still give you the land", so Muslims got a separate land in Pakistan while still maintaining heavy presence in India, those snakes have now grown to bite us. Jabh practically zameen surrender karne ka decision le hee chuke they, toh sirf theorotically disagree karne mein kya matlab tha?

    We should have either disagreed and kept the land or agreed and removed all Muslims. No middle path here.

    There were so many killings during partition that Hindus were up in arms everywhere, had they been granted a free hand, the Muslim community would have been wiped out. It was Nehru and Patel and others who pacified the Hindus and saved these snakes. Abh bhugto. We are paying for the Karma of our forefathers, what else can we say.

    Subramanian Swamy has articulated this very well when he was repeatedly questioned on Ram Mandir issue and how it links to current nationalism, he said, it's not about the Mandir, the current nationalism is a metamorphosis of the discontent which stems from Hindus who have started to realize that we have been given a raw deal since independence. The zeal which you see in present day nationalists stems from the enthusiasm to change the entrenched status quo. And in one simple line, he enunciated the Hindutva ideology without any religious jargon.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
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  14. fooLIam

    fooLIam Regular Member

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    i dont know weather it was unfortunate or karma or simply we are declining civilization that we had such "leaders" i mean no genuine leader will let his land partitioned and people slaughtered and instead of defending them ,they are urging them to drop weapons .what foreign invaders could not do in 1000 years, these "leaders" were able to pull off in few decades.millions of hindus who resisted for 1000 yrs got slaughters,converted,raped in few decades(pakistan and bangadesh).

    I hope such leaders should also born in west ,china ,muslim world. gandhism and nehruhism.:devil:

    have you guys read any statement by maluana nehru in international conflicts like israel-arab conflict. really what a clown our forefathers had choosen.
     
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  15. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Read this piece of eye opener from none other but raging bull called Katju: https://indiankanoon.org/doc/709044/

    So as long as India does not spend half of its GDP for Hajj, SC seemed to be fine!! But that was under Katju maharaj!
     
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  16. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sum up all the subsidies, reservations and relaxations we give to minorities. It obviously won't be half of the GDP but takes away a large chunk of money.

    Question is, why this discrimination? Isn't the majority entitled to cheap education? Isn't the majority supposed to have the right to worship? Doesn't the majority need jobs?
     
  17. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Ask that to Katju!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  18. OrangeFlorian

    OrangeFlorian #GoldAndBlack Senior Member

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    This article was made by Navnit Kundu
     

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