High Speed Railway Corridor

[Rowdy]

On the contrary, end-to-end distance cannot be MORE than 500 km. If the Mumbai-Ahmedabad line is charging 4000 per ticket, it comes to Rs. 8/km. If the distance is 2000 km (as in the routes you are proposing), the fare comes to Rs.16000 (one-way). And this is the bare minimum.

Think about it. No one will bother using the bullet train for such large distances since flights are much cheaper. Do the math.

Just one point.
The trains are hardly if even gonna be taken end to end ..... they will be taken in stretches where time/cost ratio is justified so they will connect intermediate stops.

 

[Bangalorean]

Just one point.
The trains are hardly if even gonna be taken end to end ..... they will be taken in stretches where time/cost ratio is justified so they will connect intermediate stops.

Yahbut, the issue is with long unviable stretches. Think of Kolkata-Mumbai. Mumbai-Pune is viable (200 km). Pune-Nagpur (maybe, its 50-50, but this is 500 km). Nagpur-Bhilai and further on through Orissa to Kolkata? Can't say - I would think, no.

I think it will be natural progression. There will be Mumbai-Ahmedabad and Delhi-Jaipur. The missing part of the leg will be covered when we have one city between Ahmedabad and Jaipur which will be a viable intermediate city.

 

[Rowdy]

Yahbut, the issue is with long unviable stretches. Think of Kolkata-Mumbai. Mumbai-Pune is viable (200 km). Pune-Nagpur (maybe, its 50-50, but this is 500 km). Nagpur-Bhilai and further on through Orissa to Kolkata? Can't say - I would think, no.

I think it will be natural progression. There will be Mumbai-Ahmedabad and Delhi-Jaipur. The missing part of the leg will be covered when we have one city between Ahmedabad and Jaipur which will be a viable intermediate city.

One thing...
These stretches will come up only when the local economies become strong enough...or the lines will be loss making....Kolkata stretch will be the very last .. as the economy is in ruins. The next lines are Delhi-Jaipur / Banglore Hyd/ and some time next decade Indore - ahbd.

 

[Illusive]

Is there anyway of moving freight at that speed cause that'd be more beneficial on the DMIC.

 

[Yumdoot]

The local enconomy bit as applicable to Ahmedabad-Mumbai circuit would be available reasonably quickly. Expect to see big investments in Solar parks in Gujarat & Rajasthan.

For manufactured goods the Sagarmala concept can be given more depth and Gujarat_Mumbai circuit itself may be spun out as a single Coastal Economic Region served by a parallel coastal shipping system. Currently it looks like its two CERs proposed. Much much cheaper with coastal shipping for cargo.

 

[blueblood]

Is there anyway of moving freight at that speed cause that'd be more beneficial on the DMIC.

You don't need to move freight at 300 km/h but Western Dedicated Freight Corridor is under construction and will be completed by 2017-2018 resulting in the lowest price manufacture of goods in the world.

 

[cobra commando]

Railways picks firms for high speed rail study

Railways has appointed consortiums led by Chinese, French and Spanish firms to conduct studies into building three high-speed rail lines linking major cities, as part of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s diamond quadrilateral project. A consortium led by China’s Third Railway Survey and Design Institute Group Corp. and Lahmyer International (India) Pvt., has been chosen to conduct a feasibility study for a 1,200 kilometre line between Delhi and Mumbai. France’s SYSTRA engineering consultancy will lead a consortium, which includes RITES and E&Y LLP, for conducting a study in a proposed high speed railway corridor between Mumbai and Chennai. The Railways has awarded the consultancy for conducting feasibility study on Delhi-Kolkata high speed corridor to a consortium of Spanish transport consultancy Ineco, TYPSA and Intercontinental Consultants and Technocrats Pvt.

Railways picks firms for high speed rail study

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Railways picks firms for high speed rail study

Railways has appointed consortiums led by Chinese, French and Spanish firms to conduct studies into building three high-speed rail lines linking major cities, as part of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s diamond quadrilateral project. A consortium led by China’s Third Railway Survey and Design Institute Group Corp. and Lahmyer International (India) Pvt., has been chosen to conduct a feasibility study for a 1,200 kilometre line between Delhi and Mumbai. France’s SYSTRA engineering consultancy will lead a consortium, which includes RITES and E&Y LLP, for conducting a study in a proposed high speed railway corridor between Mumbai and Chennai. The Railways has awarded the consultancy for conducting feasibility study on Delhi-Kolkata high speed corridor to a consortium of Spanish transport consultancy Ineco, TYPSA and Intercontinental Consultants and Technocrats Pvt.

Railways picks firms for high speed rail study

No Japanese. They have the best state of the art tech.

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

Green Signal: भारत में बुलेट ट्रेन प्रोजेक्‍ट को मिलेगी रफ्तार, जापान देगा 15 अरब डॉलर का सॉफ्ट लोन

नई दिल्‍ली। भारत में बुलेट ट्रेन के सपने को साकार करने के लिए जापान ने वित्‍तीय मदद देने का प्रस्‍ताव दिया है। जापान ने भारत को उसकी पहली बुलेट ट्रेन के लिए तकरीबन 15 अरब डॉलर का सॉफ्ट लोन देने की बात कही है। सूत्रों ने बताया कि इस लोन की ब्‍याज दर एक फीसदी से भी कम होगी। जापान इस कदम के जरिये चीन की बराबरी करना चाहता है, जो दुनिया के चौथे सबसे बड़े भारतीय रेल नेटवर्क में अन्‍य प्रोजेक्‍ट्स हासिल करने के लिए कोशिश कर रहा है।

मुंबई और अहमदाबाद के बीच 505 किलोमीटर का बुलेट ट्रेन कॉरीडोर का व्यवहार्यता अध्‍ययन टोक्‍यो ने पूरा कर लिया है और इसमें पाया गया है कि यह प्रोजेक्‍ट तकनीकी और वित्‍तीय रूप से व्यावहारिक है। यह प्रोजेक्‍ट नीलामी के लिए रखा जाएगा, लेकिन फाइनेंस के मामले में जापान इस दौड़ में सबसे आगे है।

पिछले महीने चीन ने दिल्‍ली और मुंबई के बीच हाईस्‍पीड ट्रेन के व्‍यवहार्यता अध्‍ययन का कॉन्‍ट्रैक्‍स हासिल करने में सफलता पाई है। 1200 किलोमीटर के इस ट्रेन रूट की लागत 30 अरब डॉलर होने का अनुमान है। इस प्रोजेक्‍ट के लिए अभी तक किसी ने भी लोन की पेशकश नहीं की है।

इंडियन रेलवे बोर्ड के चेयरमैन एके मित्‍तल ने कहा कि हाई स्‍पीड टेक्‍नोलॉजी देने के लिए कई कंपनियां आगे आई हैं, लेकिन टेक्‍नोलॉजी और फंड दोनों एक साथ देने वाला हमारे पास केवल एक ऑफर है और यह ऑफर केवल जापान ने दिया है। यह दो प्रोजेक्‍ट हाईस्‍पीड ट्रेन के डायमंड क्‍वाड्रिलैटरल का हिस्‍सा है, जहां 10,000 किलोमीटर के ट्रेक का निर्माण होना है और भारत इसके जरिये दिल्‍ली, मुंबई, चेन्‍नई और कोलकाता को जोड़ना चाहता है।

सूत्रों ने बताया कि जापान ने मुंबई-अहमदाबाद प्रोजेक्‍ट की कुल लागत की 80 फीसदी राशि सॉफ्टलोन के रूप में देने का प्रस्‍ताव दिया है। इसके लिए जापान ने एक शर्त भी रखी है। इस शर्त के मुतातिबक भारत को कोच और लोकोमोटिव समेत 30 फीसदी उपकरण जापानी कंपनियों से खरीदने होंगे।

जापान की इंटरनेशनल कोऑपरेशन एजेंसी, जिसने यह व्‍यवाहर्यता अध्‍ययन किया है, ने कहा है कि बुलेट ट्रेन चलने के बाद मुंबई और अहमदाबाद के बीच यात्रा का समय वर्तमान सात घंटे से घटकर दो घंटे का रह जाएगा। इस रूट पर 11 नई सुरंग के निर्माण की जरूरत होगी, जिसमें ण्‍क सुरंग मुंबई के पास समुद्र में होगी।

 

[pmaitra]

Look we can put ten WAG 9'S in a series and say we have the most powerful locomotive in the world rated at 61250hp, that is simply stupidity.

We are not putting ten WAG-9s. We are only putting two WAG-9s to match two units of the Alstom locomotives. Thereafter, on comparison, we see that we are already manufacturing more powerful locomotives.

Basically I am disagreeing with your statement in red below:

We build nothing comparable to these locos, what we have is vastly inferior both in terms of fuel efficiency and pulling power!
This is a technological upgrade similar to the one where the IR moved from steam to diesel and electric locos.

As far as the ALSTOMS are concerned you might say they are two units but as far as the IR is concerned they are one unit as they are designed, built , marketed and sold in a complete tractive unit of 12000 hp in one articulated body!
Either of the ALSTOMS as one tractive unit is far more powerful than one WAP7 or WAP 9.

Nope. It is not one body. It is two bodies. Each body is supported by two bogies. Please see spoiler below:

Spoiler: Exhibit A: Alstom 2ES5 (two units)

Spoiler: Exhibit B: CLW WAG-9 (two units)

Exhibit B > Exhibit A

Edited to add that with the CLW WAG-9, we have the flexibility of using one unit when excessive power is not required.

 

[bengalraider]

@pmaitra
But then I've never seen a 2ES5 operating as a single unit. I believe it's designed from the ground up to work as a set of two( your point) working homogeneously as a single unit.coupling two engines together is not homogeneous and wastes more energy.
Also what about starting tractive effort. That can't be increased by putting multiple engines in series .
We are looking at increasing the axle load on a wagon from 22.5 tonnes to 32.5 tonnes while simultaneously also increasing the length of an average goods train rake from 700mtr to 1500mtr for the WFC (at least). These massive cargo trains will require an enormous amount of tractive effort to get rolling.

 

[bengalraider]

Anyhoo I was wrong in selection of the locomotive type. It seems we shall be getting a custom version of the six axle co co version of the alstom prima 2 locomotive.

The Prima locomotive for Indian Railways will be 9,000 kW at the wheel rim and will run at a speed up to 120 km/h. This contract positions Alstom as the number one on heavy-haul electric locomotives segment with now over 1,200 double locomotives ordered for the last decade.

http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/...uble-electric-locomotives-to-indian-railways/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_(locomotive)

 

[bengalraider]

It's a workhorse for sure!
Anyhoo I believe this deal is much like that for the initial batch of ALCOs wherein the OEM builds the factory & the first tranche. We shall build many more of these at home once the technology has been completely absorbed into the workshops.

 

[pmaitra]

@pmaitra
But then I've never seen a 2ES5 operating as a single unit. I believe it's designed from the ground up to work as a set of two( your point) working homogeneously as a single unit.coupling two engines together is not homogeneous and wastes more energy.
Also what about starting tractive effort. That can't be increased by putting multiple engines in series .
We are looking at increasing the axle load on a wagon from 22.5 tonnes to 32.5 tonnes while simultaneously also increasing the length of an average goods train rake from 700mtr to 1500mtr for the WFC (at least). These massive cargo trains will require an enormous amount of tractive effort to get rolling.

The 2ES5 locomotive is designed as two individual locomotives joined together. That is why it is two unit locomotive, while the WAG-9 is a single unit locomotive.

The 2ES5 is a twin-unit 25kV AC electric loco designed for heavy freight work, and follows the EP20 passenger locomotive now being tested by Russian Railways.

Source: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...ew/prototype-2es5-freight-loco-completed.html

Can one unit of 2ES5 work as a single unit? I don't know. However, it appears that individual units can be added to increase the power of the entire multi-unit locomotive. So, an extra power unit can be added in the middle of the two units to have a three unit locomotive. The spoiler below shows two such three unit locomotives coupled to each other.

Spoiler: 2ES5K

Source: http://www.tmholding.ru/journal_files/Transmashholding03_14_en.pdf

My point is, when comparing 2ES5 with WAG-9, we are essentially comparing two Alstom locomotives with one CLW locomotive. When two CLW locomotives are coupled together, they also work homogeneously. That is how they are designed. You don't need a loco pilot on both locomotives. You only need one loco pilot and only one control cab. The other three control cabs remain vacant.


Our current CLW WAG-9 and WAP-7 are very much state of the art locomotives and comparable to European locomotives. The only power units that are better are the ones used in ICE, TGV, Talgo, etc..

 

[bengalraider]

@pmaitra - THE 2ES5 is manufactured in both 2 section types and 3 section types by ALSTOM for the Russian Railways, it's a modular design and 2 or 3 modules can be added as required.

You are correct when we speak of horsepower alone , but as i pointed out earlier in terms of starting tractive effort the ALSTOMs seem to steal the show with 833kN of starting traction compared to the WAG 9's 460kN.
That said i did a quick study of all 10,000hp+ locos working today almost all seem to use the same double bo-bo design with two sets of twin axle units coupled together using an articulated arrangement, the WAG-9 also fits in with the rest of the 6000 Hp crowd that uses a co-co arrangement with two sets of three axles each.

 

[bengalraider]

Also before i forget the locos we are getting are customized non articulated six axle co-co versions of the Prima 2, i.e they will be one unit not double units! It seems our entire debate here has been quite meaningless it seems

 

[pmaitra]

@pmaitra - THE 2ES5 is manufactured in both 2 section types and 3 section types by ALSTOM for the Russian Railways, it's a modular design and 2 or 3 modules can be added as required.

You are correct when we speak of horsepower alone , but as i pointed out earlier in terms of starting tractive effort the ALSTOMs seem to steal the show with 833kN of starting traction compared to the WAG 9's 460kN.
That said i did a quick study of all 10,000hp+ locos working today almost all seem to use the same double bo-bo design with two sets of twin axle units coupled together using an articulated arrangement, the WAG-9 also fits in with the rest of the 6000 Hp crowd that uses a co-co arrangement with two sets of three axles each.

The sets you are talking about is called the bogie. The bogie can swivel under the body. This means, the unit is articulated. What you are calling articulated is actually two articulated bodies coupled together.

See the example below:

This is a model well wagon. The bogie is turned out. This means, this well wagon is an articulated wagon.

Similarly, see the image of another bogie below:

This is a coach with a bogie that is turned out. This is also an articulated coach.

Also before i forget the locos we are getting are customized non articulated six axle co-co versions of the Prima 2, i.e they will be one unit not double units! It seems our entire debate here has been quite meaningless it seems

They will still be articulated. You cannot have non-articulated vehicles of that length. They won't be able to negotiate curves.

Below is an example of a non-articulated wagon. These wagons have to be very short:

 

[bengalraider]

Anyhoo now it seems we're getting the ones from GE below very very TFTA videos

The GE Evolution series 4

 

[pmaitra]

You are correct when we speak of horsepower alone , but as i pointed out earlier in terms of starting tractive effort the ALSTOMs seem to steal the show with 833kN of starting traction compared to the WAG 9's 460kN.

I think we are going back to the same discussion.

(833 kN) is less than (460 kN x 2 = 920 kN)

I think our existing CLW locomotives are still stealing the show from Alstom.

I understand these Alstom locomotives are new, and we always love new things, but let us compare based on technicality, not novelty.

 

[bengalraider]

I think we are going back to the same discussion.

(833 kN) is less than (460 kN x 2 = 920 kN)

I think our existing CLW locomotives are still stealing the show from Alstom.

I understand these Alstom locomotives are new, and we always love new things, but let us compare based on technicality, not novelty.

I don't believe starting reactive effort can be increased by adding more locos in series. If you have any information to the contrary please enlighten me!