Here are 2 problems that could sink the Russian military in a war

[pmaitra]

I am pretty sure that one professional soldier,well equipped equals to >10 poorly trained,equipped conscripts.
Why would you rely on conscripts,that most of them shows no will to fight ?

I am not so sure about that.

The two big factors in war are:

1. motivation
2. training

This is assuming adequate equipment.

A well trained but unmotivated soldier won't do well. A motivated but ill trained soldier won't do well.

There are many instances of civil war where milita defeated the military.

Personally, I prefer a professional military, but that is just a personal opinion, not an argument either for or against conscription. Both has its advantages and disadvantages.

Regarding your opening post, well, all I can say is that such criticism of the Russian military is welcome. It should help Russia improve itself. The point is not to brag about how great the military is. The point is to prove the greatness in action. Here is an example:

The US defence budget is more than 8 times the Russian defence budget. Now, we have all seen that Russia managed to do in two weeks in Syria what the US was not able to in one year. This, on top of the fact that Russia's Syrian deployment is small compared to the US' Iraq deployment.

 

[Gabriel92]

I am not so sure about that.

The two big factors in war are:

1. motivation
2. training

This is assuming adequate equipment.

A well trained but unmotivated soldier won't do well. A motivated but ill trained soldier won't do well.

There are many instances of civil war where milita defeated the military.

Personally, I prefer a professional military, but that is just a personal opinion, not an argument either for or against conscription. Both has its advantages and disadvantages.

Regarding your opening post, well, all I can say is that such criticism of the Russian military is welcome. It should help Russia improve itself. The point is not to brag about how great the military is. The point is to prove the greatness in action. Here is an example:

The US defence budget is more than 8 times the Russian defence budget. Now, we have all seen that Russia managed to do in two weeks in Syria what the US was not able to in one year. This, on top of the fact that Russia's Syrian deployment is small compared to the US' Iraq deployment.

As for Syria,i do not know what the Russians mean by "we achieved in two weeks etc",they coordinate their airstrikes with the Syrian army,they support them from the air,and Assad's army has currently launched big offensives,so that's normal that they strike many targets,the Syrians on the ground design to them targets,while the US-led strike only ISIS targets,such as training camps etc. (What Russia did against ISIS ? It seems that they prefer to intercept US drones over ISIS held areas (Then to make their funboys to have an orgasm?) that bombing them.)
The US-led did the same in Iraq,with the Iraqi army and Peshmergas and they well advanced.
Everyweek,our aircrafts take off from Jordan,UAE and are participating in CAS missions,but we do not exaggerate our work.

 

[pmaitra]

As for Syria,i do not know what the Russians mean by "we achieved in two weeks etc",they coordinate their airstrikes with the Syrian army,they support them from the air,and Assad's army has currently launched big offensives,so that's normal that they strike many targets,the Syrians on the ground design to them targets,while the US-led strike only ISIS targets,such as training camps etc. (What Russia did against ISIS ? It seems that they prefer to intercept US drones over ISIS held areas (Then to make their funboys to have an orgasm?) that bombing them.)
The US-led did the same in Iraq,with the Iraqi army and Peshmergas and they well advanced.
Everyweek,our aircrafts take off from Jordan,UAE and are participating in CAS missions,but we do not exaggerate our work.

That is my opinion. I was not reiterating what the Russians might have said. I said what I said from my observations.

Coming to what Russia did against ISIS. Well, you have to see the maps of Russian strikes. Look at maps from the British Brainwashing Corporation, and you will still see a few dots on ISIS controlled areas. Considering BBC will downplay anything that does not suit their narrative, it means, at least three/four/five times that many strikes were carried out by Russia against ISIS. There are maps posted in the appropriate thread. This is my answer to your question.

I disagree that the Russians prefer to intercept US drones. I think the Russians have other priorities, but interception of US drones might be because, and I am speculating, the Russians do not trust the US, and suspect them of being in collusion with ISIS, and hence suspect that the US might be passing off information about Syrian Army formations to ISIS, and hence, they are being cautious. Can't blame them, if my speculation is correct.

Anyway, I think we are discussing the same topic in two threads. If you wish to reply back, please reply back in the thread below, and not here.

Thread: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/russian-involvement-in-syrian-crisis.70000/

 

[pmaitra]

You cannot avoid the fact that you still rely on poorly trained,equipped conscripts.

You are correct that Russia still relies on conscripts, but @Cadian was talking about something else. He quoted a specific paragraph (see right below), and we don't know whether that is a fact or fiction. Does the ground reality corroborate these claims?

"t doesn’t seem like we're fighting something big, just some alcoholics and homeless guys," 1st Lt. Alexey Chaban, of the Ukrainian army's 17th Tank Brigade, told War Is Boring. "Despite the fact that there are Russian soldiers fighting us, they don't have experience and make huge mistakes. Dying by the hundreds — they're not even real fighters."

Did some research and thinking:

• "It doesn’t seem like we're fighting something big, just some alcoholics and homeless guys," - Probably because they are not Russian soldiers but volunteers?
• "Despite the fact that there are Russian soldiers fighting us," - How do we know it is a fact? We saw what the Russian Army is capable of in Crimea.
• "they don't have experience and make huge mistakes." - Probably true, and that is because they are not Russian soldiers, but volunteers?
• Alexey Chaban is a Facebook hero. I hope he is not a coward like Poltorak.

I understand you might not agree with me, so let's believe what each one of us want to. We can rarely impress upon each other when we are passionate about our positions anyway.

They would get butchered like chicken in face of a very professional army...

• We saw a "professional army" at Illovayisk.
• We saw a "professional army" at Debaltsevo.

The article as a whole is not bad, and I agree with some of the things it says.

 

[gadeshi]

Mostly unlikely.



Will they unleash an hordes of VDV and Naval infantry soldiers ? :hippo:

Unmotivated they were in Yeltsin times.
All depends on what do those conscripts do during service. If they do not leave the trainings day and night, they will be capable enough in 10 months of service. If they drink, work on commanders country houses and trying to survive searching food and clothes like in Ukraine, than they will be useless even after 10 years of service.

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[gadeshi]

In Donbass against Ukraine are fighting only contracted.

There were no Russian troops on Donbass at all. In reverse case they were standing near Kiyev in 6-7 days (if they act ground forces only). But this scenario is nonesense.

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[Gabriel92]

You are correct that Russia still relies on conscripts, but @Cadian was talking about something else. He quoted a specific paragraph (see right below), and we don't know whether that is a fact or fiction. Does the ground reality corroborate these claims?

Did some research and thinking:

• "It doesn’t seem like we're fighting something big, just some alcoholics and homeless guys," - Probably because they are not Russian soldiers but volunteers?
• "Despite the fact that there are Russian soldiers fighting us," - How do we know it is a fact? We saw what the Russian Army is capable of in Crimea.
• "they don't have experience and make huge mistakes." - Probably true, and that is because they are not Russian soldiers, but volunteers?
• Alexey Chaban is a Facebook hero. I hope he is not a coward like Poltorak.

I understand you might not agree with me, so let's believe what each one of us want to. We can rarely impress upon each other when we are passionate about our positions anyway.

• We saw a "professional army" at Illovayisk.
• We saw a "professional army" at Debaltsevo.

The article as a whole is not bad, and I agree with some of the things it says.

You cannot take as exemple an army that has been underequipped,and underfunded during many years....
@Akim might know more than i do.
If i understand,Russia sends its conscripts to Ukraine,not professional soldiers. Well i think this clam «homeless and drunk» is a little bit exaggerated. (Not the fact that they might be drunk i think )

 

[gadeshi]

You cannot take as exemple an army that has been underequipped,and underfunded during many years....
@Akim might know more than i do.
If i understand,Russia sends its conscripts to Ukraine,not professional soldiers. Well i think this clam «homeless and drunk» is a little bit exaggerated. (Not the fact that they might be drunk i think [emoji14]eace: )

Sending conscriprs is stupidity because they are unable to do the job and take almost as much resources as contractors.
Just time and money waist along with social sensitive losses. That's not Russian armys way.

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[Gabriel92]

Unmotivated they were in Yeltsin times.
All depends on what do those conscripts do during service. If they do not leave the trainings day and night, they will be capable enough in 10 months of service. If they drink, work on commanders country houses and trying to survive searching food and clothes like in Ukraine, than they will be useless even after 10 years of service.

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Because you think they are all motivated these days ?
I have heard,many do not obey the orders,many are deserting etc..
I think Russia should have a professional army,it might be less in numbers,but with a good training and the best equipment...

 

[Akim]

There were no Russian troops on Donbass at all. In reverse case they were standing near Kiyev in 6-7 days (if they act ground forces only). But this scenario is nonesense.

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Ок. It's talented "miners and tractor operators," who learned higher mathematics, ballistics, studied artillery tables learned military electronics, electronic warfare, and many other military sciences. I needed 5 years, but apparently there are geniuses.

 

[gadeshi]

Because you think they are all motivated these days ?
I have heard,many do not obey the orders,many are deserting etc..
I think Russia should have a professional army,it might be less in numbers,but with a good training and the best equipment...

Russia has a professional army now. It is called Immediate Ready Forces. It is 40% of land forces now.
All you "have heard" is lie or rumors. As for DNR/LNR forces - yes, they are made from locals (many of those are Afgan veterans, just Soviet Army veteran officers with battle experience), as well as from volounteers from all over the world, even from France. It's like antifa international brigades in Spain 1934-1938.
Yes, they are instructed and advised by Russians, but not directly aided or so.
As for motivations:
What could be your motivation, if some nazi and western ukrainian dumb peasants has taken the powers in your country, made Bandera and the other traitors and collaborators as their heroes, and stated that Russians must undergo banderizaton or extinction?
What if you know, that all of those orcs will come to your house, ravage it, rape your wife and kill your children?
There are dozens of confirmed facts of these crimes made by Azov, Aidar, Shakhtersk/Tornado and the other nazi battalions on Donbass?
Right... You will fight them untill your last breath just to not allow them to come.

 

[gadeshi]

Ок. It's talented "miners and tractor operators," who learned higher mathematics, ballistics, studied artillery tables learned military electronics, electronic warfare, and many other military sciences. I needed 5 years, but apparently there are geniuses.

What electronics warfare in DNR/LNR???
Give me even a single photo of Russian ESM/ECM vehicles on Donbass : )
Ukrainian army is a bunch of unprofessional drunken tramps or compact nazi gangs, which don't need sophisticated measures at all to defeat them, especially don't need electronics warfare.

 

[gadeshi]

What about generic infantry actions - you can see conscriptors-complected reconaisence units in action after 10 months of service on Tsentr-2015 military drills:

 

[Akim]

Russia has a professional army now. It is called Immediate Ready Forces. It is 40% of land forces now.
All you "have heard" is lie or rumors. As for DNR/LNR forces - yes, they are made from locals (many of those are Afgan veterans, just Soviet Army veteran officers with battle experience), as well as from volounteers from all over the world, even from France. It's like antifa international brigades in Spain 1934-1938.
Yes, they are instructed and advised by Russians, but not directly aided or so.
As for motivations:
What could be your motivation, if some nazi and western ukrainian dumb peasants has taken the powers in your country, made Bandera and the other traitors and collaborators as their heroes, and stated that Russians must undergo banderizaton or extinction?
What if you know, that all of those orcs will come to your house, ravage it, rape your wife and kill your children?
There are dozens of confirmed facts of these crimes made by Azov, Aidar, Shakhtersk/Tornado and the other nazi battalions on Donbass?
Right... You will fight them untill your last breath just to not allow them to come.

With WW1. Donbass was the most demilitarized region in Ukraine. There was no military regular formed. During the Soviet era in Donetsk was only one military school, which trained - political officers (commissars in the old way). In Lugansk, there was one military school, which trained navigators for the Strategic Air Command. Both military schools were closed in the early 90's due to the uselessness of course, you can even teach a monkey to shoot a machine gun, but it will never become an officer. Only in the DNR

What electronics warfare in DNR/LNR???
Give me even a single photo of Russian ESM/ECM vehicles on Donbass : )
Ukrainian army is a bunch of unprofessional drunken tramps or compact nazi gangs, which don't need sophisticated measures at all to defeat them, especially don't need electronics warfare.

Do not irritate me with their obstinacy! Look in another topic. Ceased to convert non-core topic! OK. We all will soon surrender. Just do not cry!
.

 

[Gabriel92]

Russia has a professional army now. It is called Immediate Ready Forces. It is 40% of land forces now.
All you "have heard" is lie or rumors. As for DNR/LNR forces - yes, they are made from locals (many of those are Afgan veterans, just Soviet Army veteran officers with battle experience), as well as from volounteers from all over the world, even from France. It's like antifa international brigades in Spain 1934-1938.
Yes, they are instructed and advised by Russians, but not directly aided or so.
As for motivations:
What could be your motivation, if some nazi and western ukrainian dumb peasants has taken the powers in your country, made Bandera and the other traitors and collaborators as their heroes, and stated that Russians must undergo banderizaton or extinction?
What if you know, that all of those orcs will come to your house, ravage it, rape your wife and kill your children?
There are dozens of confirmed facts of these crimes made by Azov, Aidar, Shakhtersk/Tornado and the other nazi battalions on Donbass?
Right... You will fight them untill your last breath just to not allow them to come.

Did the UKROP Nazis invade Russia ? It is funny how you put everyone in the same bag,seeing some Neo Nazis in a volunteer bataillon,doesn't mean all Ukrainians are. There are Nazi fondamentalists,like they are Ukrainians fighting for their motherland.

What about generic infantry actions - you can see conscriptors-complected reconaisence units in action after 10 months of service on Tsentr-2015 military drills:

It looks interesting,too bad no English subtitles.
And did you see all the soviet-era equipment ? Nothing is modern.
Russia should allocate the little ressources that they'll have into some profesionnal,smaller,more mobile and modern units.

 

[gadeshi]

Yeah, you will go to nowhere soon...
But now please enjoy this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...iews-arrested-killing-cops.html#ixzz3pJxNKvuw

 

[gadeshi]

Did the UKROP Nazis invade Russia ? It is funny how you put everyone in the same bag,seeing some Neo Nazis in a volunteer bataillon,doesn't mean all Ukrainians are. There are Nazi fondamentalists,like they are Ukrainians fighting for their motherland.
It looks interesting,too bad no English subtitles.
And did you see all the soviet-era equipment ? Nothing is modern.
Russia should allocate the little ressources that they'll have into some profesionnal,smaller,more mobile and modern units.

Look, man, I've NEVER said that all the ukrainians are nazis and will never say this stupid thing. Ever.
But not to admit and confirm that nazis has helped the current regime to come to the power and continue to make war crimes on Donbass is the same supidity as for me.

 

[Gabriel92]

Look, man, I've NEVER said that all the ukrainians are nazis and will never say this stupid thing. Ever.
But not to admit and confirm that nazis has helped the current regime to come to the power and continue to make war crimes on Donbass is the same supidity as for me.

Russia contains more Neo Nazis/Nazis per km² than any other European country,and that's pretty funny and stupid i'd say,since Hitler considered you guys as an inferior race.

Yeah, you will go to nowhere soon...
But now please enjoy this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...iews-arrested-killing-cops.html#ixzz3pJxNKvuw

 

[Akim]

Yeah, you will go to nowhere soon...
But now please enjoy this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...iews-arrested-killing-cops.html#ixzz3pJxNKvuw

This super-proof. Now I collect things and running in Russia, because I'm Russian.

 

[gadeshi]

Russia contains more Neo Nazis/Nazis per km² than any other European country,and that's pretty funny and stupid i'd say,since Hitler considered you guys as an inferior race.

Russian neo-nazis are out of the law, they are hunted and imprisoned if caught.
But they are not heroes, they are not justified by the government, they are not in the government and not in the army.