Here are 2 problems that could sink the Russian military in a war

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by Gabriel92, Oct 22, 2015.

  1. Gabriel92

    Gabriel92 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    491
    Be afraid of Russian army ! @Akim @jouni @gadeshi @Cadian @pmaitra @apple

    -
    With a frozen frontline inside Ukrainian territory, the successful annexation of Crimea, and an ongoing intervention in Syria, Russia's military prowess appears firmly established.

    But despite the Kremlin's recent successes, the Russian military faces two deep structural problems that could prove disastrous if it ever faced off against another large conventional force.

    According to Dave Majumdar of The National Interest, Russia's military is facing deep manpower and hardware shortfalls.

    Conscription is a big part of Russia's military shortfall. A vast majority of military personnel, outside of the Strategic Missile Forces, airborne forces, and naval infantry, still rely on unmotivated conscripts who receive little training.

    "Only about a quarter of Russian ground forces are fully staffed, well-trained professional troops," Majumdar notes. "Those professional soldiers — who are not quite trained to Western standards — are part of a corps of rapid reaction forces."

    The remainder of Russian forces still rely on the draft to fill their ranks. That dependence, and the resulting lack of professionalism through much of the military, is readily apparent in the Kremlin's latest adventurism.

    "t doesn’t seem like we're fighting something big, just some alcoholics and homeless guys," 1st Lt. Alexey Chaban, of the Ukrainian army's 17th Tank Brigade, told War Is Boring. "Despite the fact that there are Russian soldiers fighting us, they don't have experience and make huge mistakes. Dying by the hundreds — they're not even real fighters."

    [​IMG]Shamil Zhumatov/ReutersRussian troops guard a military base in Perevalnoye, near the Crimean city of Simferopol, March 21, 2014.



    Chaban claims that Isa Munayev, a Chechen ex-military commander who went to Ukraine to help fight against the Russians, said that while Russia's elite troops were effective, the majority were untrained and unprofessional.

    "Isa always told me that the Russian fighters were just a bunch of drunks, but that if I ever saw [Chechen President Ramzan] Kadyrov's men, then you should be very afraid. These are professionals, they've been fighting for their whole lives. The same goes for Russian Spetsnaz, GRU. If you see any of them, just leave," Chaban told War Is Boring.

    Russia's conscription cycle makes it easy to build up a quantitatively impressive army, but hard to build it into a formidable fighting force. Conscripts serve for only one year within the military before being allowed to return to civilian life. This consistent turnover makes it difficult for the Kremlin to maintain a well-trained standing force as soldiers are constantly rotated out.

    Recent reforms have attempted to shift Russia's military away from a conscription force toward one consisting of "contract-employed" soldiers. These reforms have been slow in coming, and the Russian military still relies on the draft to fill its ranks.

    [​IMG]Mil.ru via Wikimedia CommonsRussia's aging Soviet-era Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier.



    The second major problem facing the Russian military is the state of its hardware and its faltering procurement process. Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia lost a good portion of its industrial and technological base, something that weakened the country's defense industry.

    "The country fell behind in many crucial technological areas, particularly during the 1990s," Majumdar writes. "For example, the Russians are well behind on key technologies for building precision weapons, targeting pods and active electronically scanned array radars — which are just a few examples."

    Shipbuilding was another area where Russia began to fall behind.

    "Russia no longer has the capability to build large warships the size of a carrier and it uses antiquated construction techniques," writes Majumdar.

    Russian soldiers are continuing to use Soviet-built hardware. And while Russia is investing in new hardware, overall procurement is likely to be difficult for Moscow because of Russia's continuing economic difficulties.

    These difficulties have led the Kremlin to delay or scale down several major defense projects. A new fifth-generation bomber, the PAK DA, was intended to enter service in 2023. The plane's development has been pushed back and Russia will instead focus on production of an updated version of the Soviet-era Tu-160 supersonic nuclear bomber.

    [​IMG]
    Crown Copyright / UK MoDA British Royal Air Force Typhoon intercepts a Russian Tu-160.



    This isn't the only recent instance of Russia having to scale back on its military modernization ambitions. The Kremlin is also having problems financing its hulking third-generation Armata tank. Dmitry Gorenburg of Harvard University estimates that Russia will only be able to field a maximum of 330 Armata tanks by 2020, a fraction of the 2,300 originally planned.

    Russia may have a proven ability to take limited territory and sustain multiple small operations. But with its manpower and procurement problems, the Kremlin would struggle in a long war against a major rival military.

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-russian-military-has-two-major-problems-2015-10?r=US&IR=T
     
    Dark Sorrow likes this.
  2.  
  3. Cadian

    Cadian Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2014
    Messages:
    823
    Likes Received:
    780
    Location:
    Russia, Ryazan
    Stopped reading after this. Doesn't worth any attention.
     
    jackprince likes this.
  4. Gabriel92

    Gabriel92 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    491
    You cannot avoid the fact that you still rely on poorly trained,equipped conscripts.



    They would get butchered like chicken in face of a very professional army...
     
  5. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    5,454
    Likes Received:
    3,614
    Location:
    Kharkiv/Ukraine
    You usually citate those guys who were beaten and teared apart by Donbass workers and coalminers and then telling you a fairytales about how do they defeated Russian army...
    Or even worse - the guys who cannot differ APC from a tank and treat themselves as an experts.
    This is rediculous.
     
  6. Gabriel92

    Gabriel92 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    491
    On Russias VK social network photos appeared from Russias 200th Motorized Rifle Brigade being disguised as the so called 'NovoRossiya' rebel army.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    T72B3

    [​IMG]
     
  7. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    5,454
    Likes Received:
    3,614
    Location:
    Kharkiv/Ukraine
    Should I teach you how to create fake accounts, take somebodies images from the other accounts and create an "evidences" from them? :)

    There are only satellite photos and encrypted traffic graphs of Andromeda network centric warfare control system can be considered as real evidences here, but there are absent :)
    So Ukrainian bloggers are trying to compose anything that can look like proofs for inprofessional and simply stupid ukrainian media eaters.

    Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk
     
  8. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Messages:
    5,393
    Likes Received:
    2,230
    Location:
    Odessa
    I support conscription service. The army should not be fully contracted. Contract army in modern warfare, has a reserve of potential for a week of combat. If faced two armies amounting to combat training, the mobilization is needed. Much better if mobilized a have military training than if he can not distinguish the barrel from the butt. Nat knife edge, certainly have is professionals. In the rear, it can be stored for recruits. The Russian Army was a vestige of how dedovshchina. You're also conscripts discrimination on ethnic grounds.
     
    gadeshi likes this.
  9. Gabriel92

    Gabriel92 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    491
    I am pretty sure that one professional soldier,well equipped equals to >10 poorly trained,equipped conscripts.
    Why would you rely on conscripts,that most of them shows no will to fight ?
     
  10. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Messages:
    5,393
    Likes Received:
    2,230
    Location:
    Odessa
    Logistic component in the army is 3/5 of the total number of troops. Prompt me, why should a soldier of bringing bread or ammunition to the front lines, to be a professional?
     
    gadeshi likes this.
  11. Gabriel92

    Gabriel92 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    491
    What does that mean ? o_O
    I have no clue of what you wanted to say.
     
  12. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Messages:
    5,393
    Likes Received:
    2,230
    Location:
    Odessa
    I am also of the maximum increase of military age. In times of WW2 I noticed that the older soldiers, the more intelligent.
    97 year we arrived at military college of over 100 French cadets. They were only 2 course, but their age was equal to our alumni who graduated from the 4-year study.
    Soldier logistic support do not need special training.
     
  13. Gabriel92

    Gabriel92 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    491
    In our army,those that are in logistic units receive the same training,even if they have a different mission.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
    apple likes this.
  14. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Messages:
    5,393
    Likes Received:
    2,230
    Location:
    Odessa
    I know. But I do not see any difference between the conscripts and contract service, if he drivers a truck with the laundry. Contract army requires a lot of money. These costs can be reduced if the part of army will consist of recruit They will not trust never shoot from artillery guns, but the shells/rounds bring to it is quite capable.
     
  15. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    3,248
    Likes Received:
    1,862
    im a friend of russia and slavic peoples you can believe me because the alternative if russia was weak is that china gonna take over and some of us are of the opinion that such is not that great and we'd rather have russia to counterbalance and give us some alternatives ....besides this russia has been a real friend in the past, when india did not have a well-formulated diplomatic policy

    to be honest that does not mean that we cant form new friendship with the usa , but that is beside the point and i only mentioned that to give a balanced picture of indias diplomatic position these days .

    some of the posts above have talked about whether some sections of the russian army are professional or not and i shall not enter that argument because it does not touch on the two major points made in the article, which are
    (a) lack of population numbers for the armed services
    and
    (b) lack of production of military hardware for the armed forces

    we used to have a regular contributor on this forum from russia by the forum nickname of "Vladimir" but he has not been around for some time and we miss him as his contributions were of a high standard.

    But even he would not accept my points on this forum that russia has a v serious demographic problem and my foresight was that if this is not corrected then i felt china would walk into the Russian far east .

    also as a result of the lack of manpower then it would not be too difficult to understand the lack of production workers and thus the drop in the production of military hardware.

    hence the 2 major issues in the article have only one source, .....lack of manpower.

    and that is a serious lesson that india government planners have to take notice of, those who are thinking of two -child policy and silly ideas like that ....once tinkering with nature and it is gonna be hard to put it back into working order and may lose the whole of society in a handful of generations

    i know it is a tough struggle to provide jobs for a massively growing population but i think we would prefer that problem to one of a rapidly disappearing society

    @angeldude13@[email protected] [email protected]@[email protected] @Bornubus @brational@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected] [email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected] [email protected]&run
    @indiandefencefan@[email protected]@jackprince
    @Kunal Biswas@[email protected]@mhk99 @maomao @Neil@[email protected]@[email protected]
    @Rowdy@[email protected]@[email protected]
    @Sakal Gharelu Ustad@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected] enlightened
    @tejas warrior@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@Zebra
    @Nicky G@[email protected] [email protected] chauhan @Chinmoy @Vishwarupa
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
  16. Gabriel92

    Gabriel92 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    491
    BTW,i wasn't talking about conscripts in support units or whatsoever,but conscripts in frontline units. (combat units)

     
  17. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Messages:
    5,393
    Likes Received:
    2,230
    Location:
    Odessa
    So in the frontline, Russia uses only the troops of contract service.
     
    gadeshi likes this.
  18. Gabriel92

    Gabriel92 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    491
    Mostly unlikely.

    Will they unleash an hordes of VDV and Naval infantry soldiers ? :hippo:
     
  19. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Messages:
    5,393
    Likes Received:
    2,230
    Location:
    Odessa
    In Donbass against Ukraine are fighting only contracted.
     
  20. Gabriel92

    Gabriel92 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    491
    You mean professional soldiers or conscripts ?
    If conscripts,everyone know that Putin sends his conscripts in Ukraine as cannon fodder,body bags coming from Ukraine don't lie. :hippo:

    :peace:
     
  21. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Messages:
    5,393
    Likes Received:
    2,230
    Location:
    Odessa
    As part of the military units of the L/ DNR three groups: 1 mercenaries and volunteers from Russia 2. Location terrorists 3. Russian army. When the militants are big losses, connects the Russian army. All the artillery from the other side is controlled by professionals. Many tank crews of the Russian army. All e-intelligence service - the Russian army. All air defenses. Cannon fodder - are mercenaries.
    Do not underestimate the Russian army from overestimate too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015

Share This Page