Hazing is Simply Intolerable

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Ray, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Excerpts of a very contemporary issue that is affecting the world armies.


    This happens.

    Even in the NDA, it has become a trend (though it was not so earlier).

    Is Hazing correct?

    Does hazing build 'camaraderie'?

    Does this practice instil in the individual a sense of discipline to obey orders without question?

    Or does it ruin self esteem of the victim?

    Or is it a psychological phenomenon of otherwise insecure people, misusing their authority, to give confidence to themselves that they are 'superior'?
     
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  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Those who have seen the film, "A Few Good Men" will be able to connect.

    Galloway: Why do you hate them so much?
    Lt. Weinberg: They beat up on a weakling; that's all they did. The rest is just smokefilled coffee-house crap. They tortured and tormented a weaker kid. They didn't like him. So, they killed him. And why? Because he couldn't run very fast.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2012
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  4. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    In that film the word used was Code Red, if IRC. Also, the order for Code Red came from Jack Nicholson, who was a Colonel and was commanding the base.

    Amongst new entrants in the NDA, maybe that is done in disguise of ragging (I don't know, I am just assuming). But, is it prevalent in the higher positions of the Army as well?
     
  5. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    "You can't handle the truth!"
     
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  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Ragging (as known here) is Hazing.

    The fratricides that are reported could be because of hazing.

    What are the pros and cons of Hazing.

    Does it build character, team spirit, camaraderie et al or does it ruin the self esteem, self confidence and is merely a tool for the psychologically handicapped, who misuses his authority to prove to himself that he is superior?!
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2012
  7. Param

    Param Senior Member Senior Member

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    Hazing or ragging or whatever, Any soldier in any army any where in the world should make good use of his gun to put an end to this menace.
    Hell with rules and heirarchy when injustice is meted out.

    If I was that young soldier I would have killed as many "hazers" as possible before puling the trigger on myself.

    There is no team spirit building or camaraderie in ragging, it is just a sadistic expression of desire for control over subordinates or juniors.
    And all it promotes is a disgusting culture of subservience where one does not question the higher ups.
     
  8. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Hazing has been part of military culture, since ancient times. If people call hazing cruelty than what of war ? is it now cruel ? would the enemy be chivalrous ?

    Hazing builds character, it helps you harden up. It is better to shed a few tears during hazing, than to spill blood during war.

    And from what I have heard, and I hope some one from the military can attest to this fact; you may want to kill your seniors when you are enduring hazing but a few years down the line you cannot but feel a bond of brotherhood with them. These are the same people who will at a moment's notice give up their lives for you in battle.
     
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  9. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    All depends on what kind of "hazing" or "ragging" we are talking about, really.

    NDA ragging is common, but afaik, it happens less and less as one moves up in the military - certainly does not happen at the higher levels. That's what I hear from all my friends in the mil...
     
  10. Vyom

    Vyom Seeker Elite Member

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    If I were a soldier, I would prefer my dignity over my life. Ragging or hazing, as long as it is within limits is fine. But something that crosses the line of dignity or torture cannot be acceptable.
     
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  11. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    You join, you take shit.
    You get out in the battlefield, you take more shit .
    You climb a little higher, you take less shit.
    Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like.
    Welcome to the army, son.


     
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  12. Param

    Param Senior Member Senior Member

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    I agree.

    If ragging or "hazing" in military is something good then those institutions should be be open about it.

    Maybe they should state it as part of the training program like a personality development course.:namaste:

    Atleast if it is regulated and recognised it won't go out of hand. The informal nature is the biggest problem.

    Atleast people, young aspirants, parents would know what their wards are getting in to.
     
  13. Param

    Param Senior Member Senior Member

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    There are hardened thugs who have spent years in prison, they too can take any shyt.:D
     
  14. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    One would not expect chivalry from enemy but senior is not the enemy. I think people are given training to face the enemy. So, is hazing part of the training? If so, then the academy should be upfront about it.

    Some light ragging or hazing is understandable. But I imagine that it wont be light. And it can easily get out of hand. Also, not everyone can take it. It can have long term adverse affects on the individual.

    I think the logic for it is simple: I endured it when I was young. I am better for enduring it. Now, I'll do the same to my juniors.

    But if there is a junior who cannot take it, then he will be seen rebellious/defiant. And then the seniors can get quite cruel.

    Ideally, such things must not happen. Some banter is fine, but there should be limits. And I am sure people can build bonds(and give up lives in a moment's notice) without hazing and ragging.

    Actually, not just military, it applies to any environment where youngsters of a single gender stay together away from their families. Then, ragging and hazing can be expected. In a military environment, such things may get amplified.
     
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  15. tiranga

    tiranga Tihar Jail Banned

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    It should be allowed only if the person who is hazing can tolerate this type of behaviour with himself
     
  16. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    Individuals differ. What may seem tolerable(and light) to one, may seem untolerable(or extreme) to another and vice versa.
     
  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    There are some chaps who ragged me and they were lucky that I did not meet them during my service! [​IMG]
     
  18. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    We are not talking about us city folks, who sit in air conditioned homes and offices, and for whom ego and freedom means something.

    Military has a different ethos. Here the soldiers are not only willing but eager to embrace hell, adversity. It is a matter of great dishonour for a regiment if another is sent before it particularly if the conditions are adverse.

    If you can't take up hazing, how can you endure war ?

    Now, I don't mean we go down the route of Russian style hazing which is sadistic nor should we go down the nordic route where everything is too pc.

    The moment you start relishing hazing and adversity, you are golden.
     
  19. Param

    Param Senior Member Senior Member

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    Enduring the physical and mental effects of war are different from undergoing Hazing.

    Very often people who are meek give into being bullied , it is the brave ones who stand up to it. They are the ones who often face the wrath for their courage and defiance.

    Hazing or ragging is just a method to break down a person so that he perfectly fits in organisation where orders have to be obeyed without question.

    The only problem is why is hazing unofficial? Why not make this an officially recognised part of the training program?
    Unless there is something inherently wrong or bad about hazing there is no reason for not recognising it as officially a part of training.

    There are really tough hardened professional thugs in prison, I've known a few. They can take any thing thrown at them. They can endure any war, the one characteristic they lack is discipline.
     
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  20. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Let us be sure we note the difference between "motivation" as applied by trainers to recruits or military school candidates, and bullying of individual soldiers by their peers. The former is not hazing.
     
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  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    There are legal and professional methods to toughen up cadets and others.

    Bullying, thrashing and harassment, as a method, is not one of them!
     

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