HAL Hawk

A.V.

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Upset over problems relating to spares supply for British 'Hawks' Advanced Jet Trainers (AJTs), India has shelved plans to place follow-on orders for the aircraft and instead floated new tenders to supplement its trainer fleet
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Indian Air Force (IAF) sources said here today that the new tenders -- Request for Proposals (RFP) in Defence parlance -- were issued about a month ago to six global aircraft manufacturers.

Surprisingly, United Kingdom-based Hawks manufacturer BAE Systems finds a place among the six companies which had received the fresh tenders. But it was being approached for an upgraded version of the AJTs, sources said.

Others trainers that the IAF has shown interest in and sent the tender papers to were Italy's Alenia for the M-346, Korean T-50s, the Chez L-159, Russian YAK-130 and MiG AT Trainer, sources said.

After a procurement process that lasted nearly 20 years, India finally entered a contract for the delivery of 66 Hawks trainers with BAE in 2004. The contract had an in-built provision for a follow-on order for 40 more aircraft.

But the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) had been finding it difficult to maintain the production lines for the aircraft at its facility due to considerable delays in spares supplies, sources said.

The move of the IAF to go in for a new brand of trainer aircraft came as a surprise, as it had originally planned to have a single type of trainers in the fleet to train future fighter pilots.


http://www.india-defence.com/reports-4275
 

EnlightenedMonk

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Very surprising... and that too the fact that BAE finds a place again in the list of companies contacted for the new AJT....

I wonder, why don't they go indigenous for this one too ??? Or, is it actually a ploy to get more indigenous trainers flying ???
 

shiv

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can anyone tell me what are the problems in our own HJT-36
 

EnlightenedMonk

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A few safety issues if Wikipedia is to be believed...

A canopy flying off here... one landing on its belly there... But, I'm pretty sure that HAL is capable of making a light jet trainer, given that they have done a decent job of the LCA....
 

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Surprisingly, United Kingdom-based Hawks manufacturer BAE Systems finds a place among the six companies which had received the fresh tenders. But it was being approached for an upgraded version of the AJTs, sources said.
What do you think? The jet trainers IAF already received are not up to their expectations? or has got trouble in maintaining them? Maybe the technology used in the current hawk trainers has got nothing new to offer in making the next generation trainers in house or improving the IJT?
 

Triton

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can anyone tell me what are the problems in our own HJT-36
Project HJT-36 was scrapped by HAL after its design part underwent evaluation by the IAF's air staff requirement in 2005. IAF was not interested in developing such trainer & went ahead on importing Hawks from UK
 

Singh

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Imo this has something to do with the govt policy, ie of issuing RFP to all competitors willing to supply to India ?
 

pyromaniac

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Indian Air Force Issues Request For Proposals for Advanced Jet Trainers; BAE Hawks Du

Upset over problems relating to spares supply for British 'Hawks' Advanced Jet Trainers (AJTs), India has shelved plans to place follow-on orders for the aircraft and instead floated new tenders to supplement its trainer fleet.

Indian Air Force (IAF) sources said here today that the new tenders -- Request for Proposals (RFP) in Defence parlance -- were issued about a month ago to six global aircraft manufacturers.

Surprisingly, United Kingdom-based Hawks manufacturer BAE Systems finds a place among the six companies which had received the fresh tenders. But it was being approached for an upgraded version of the AJTs, sources said.

Others trainers that the IAF has shown interest in and sent the tender papers to were Italy's Alenia for the M-346, Korean T-50s, the Chez L-159, Russian YAK-130 and MiG AT Trainer, sources said.

After a procurement process that lasted nearly 20 years, India finally entered a contract for the delivery of 66 Hawks trainers with BAE in 2004. The contract had an in-built provision for a follow-on order for 40 more aircraft.

But the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) had been finding it difficult to maintain the production lines for the aircraft at its facility due to considerable delays in spares supplies, sources said.

The move of the IAF to go in for a new brand of trainer aircraft came as a surprise, as it had originally planned to have a single type of trainers in the fleet to train future fighter pilots.


Indian Air Force Issues Request For Proposals for Advanced Jet Trainers; BAE Hawks Dumped | India Defence


Wasn't the hawk supposed to revolutionize how the IAF fought by having properly trained pilots?
 

A.V.

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Which AJTs should IAF choose?

The Indian Air Force has issued Request for Proposals (RFPs) for 56 more Advanced Jet Trainers (AJTs) to six aerospace companies

which AJTs should india go for?
 

Mohan

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Whats wrong with the Hawk, It seems to be a good plane and I am confused now why to have two kinds of AJT,s you know about logistics. I have worked on that plane.
 

pyromaniac

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Whats wrong with the Hawk, It seems to be a good plane and I am confused now why to have two kinds of AJT,s you know about logistics. I have worked on that plane.
The IAF scrapped the Hawk order after facing problems with the supply of spare parts, and is reportedly not keen on any BAE Hawks adorning its trainer fleet in the future. So that is the reason they want another Jet trainer and also why BAE prbly will not win.
 

Mohan

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The IAF scrapped the Hawk order after facing problems with the supply of spare parts, and is reportedly not keen on any BAE Hawks adorning its trainer fleet in the future. So that is the reason they want another Jet trainer and also why BAE prbly will not win.
The numbers inducted/serving in airforce is small right now regarding spares considered and its a complete transfer of technology and the Guys in Hal are still working on the planes and transfer of technology.
 

VayuSena1

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Whats wrong with the Hawk, It seems to be a good plane and I am confused now why to have two kinds of AJT,s you know about logistics. I have worked on that plane.
I believe that according to what the training academies speak and what newspapers say, the Hawks are having a tough time obtaining spare from the BAe and therefore it is hampering the training schedules for the trainee pilots. As you know, it is essential that irrespective of whatever country we receive our equipment from, spares are a crucial element in them. Now I do not know how much truth is there in this but if the air force is seeking a newer fighter trainer, I would consider opting for the MiG-AT trainer.

Not only would this back up the MMRCA with Russia where the most, favored choice of the military and civilians alike is Dassault's Rafale ( being an independent choice to either USA or Russia and being quite contrary to the media reports of a US potential winner, although F/A-18 SH is most likely the second or third favorite).

This is of course only the political perspective of what I feel. But when considering the reality and the on-ground facts, I think all would depend on which aircraft can satisfy the Air Staff Specifications of the proposal committee.
 

Mohan

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If they go for mig trainer then i believe that's a sign indicating that the 126 MMRCA will be a Russian aircraft or is it to just keep Russia happy if the airforce decides a non Russian aircraft. I am confused.

Well they even might have thought of working out customisation's they can make in the mig tariner to suit both the latest Mig and the stealth aircraft in future, this is all my speculations thats it.
 

Texasjohn

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I picked the L-159. Here is why IMHO.

A proven airframe - but not necessarily a wimpy one. Will accept many different avionics for example.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/l159/

COCKPIT

The cockpit arrangement and controls correspond to a modern fighter aircraft configuration. The Flight Visions Head-Up Display (HUD) with raster capability is the primary flight instrument and weapon aiming system. The multifunction colour displays are used for the display of flight and navigation information and weapons systems status. The Hands-On Throttle And Stick (HOTAS) control enables both pilots to control the aircraft without removing their hands from the throttle or the control stick.

The cockpit is protected with composite and ceramic ballistic armour. Survivability is also increased by the provision of a fuel tank inerting system, an On-Board Inert Gas-Generating System (OBIGGS). VS-2 zero ejection seats and a canopy jettisoning system are fitted. The standard aircraft configuration also includes an On-Board Oxygen-Generating System (OBOGS).

WEAPONS

"The ALCA has been developed in the single-seat L159A and two-seat L159B versions."The aircraft is equipped with a Hamilton Standards Stores Management System. There are seven hardpoints to carry stores: three under each wing and one under the centre fuselage. These are capable of carrying a wide range of NATO standard weapons, including AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles, AGM-65 Maverick air-to ground missiles, rockets and free-fall bombs, a gun pod, laser-guided bombs, reconnaissance pods, electronic countermeasures pods and fuel drop tanks.

The system is adaptable for the future addition of new weapons, including medium-range air-to-air missiles and special pods for ECM, reconnaissance, night navigation and targeting.

COUNTERMEASURES

The electronic warfare system consists of the BAE Systems Sky Guardian 200 radar warning receiver and the Vinten Vicon 78 series 455 countermeasures dispensing system. Provision is made for the installation of an electronic countermeasures (jamming) pod.

AVIONICS

The avionics system meets multi-mission requirements and provides capabilities similar to current-generation frontline fighter and ground attack aircraft. Avionics integration is via a MIL-STD-1553 databus, which facilitates future growth. The avionics system performs the following functions: target sensing, controls and displays, stores management, communication, navigation and identification, self-protection, and data loading and recording.

The L159A aircraft is equipped with a Grifo-L multimode pulse Doppler radar produced by the Italian company, FIAR. For air-to-air search the radar has five modes of operation, can track up to eight targets and has track-while-scan capability. There are four submodes for air combat and nine modes for air-to-surface operations. The L159B is fitted with an electro-optical sensor or laser designator in the nose.

"The system is adaptable for the future addition of new weapons, including medium-range air-to-air missiles."The aircraft's autopilot and yaw damper, supplied by BAE Systems Flight Controls, has Stall Avoidance System mode (SAS), automatic attitude hold (ATT HLD), heading hold (HDG HLD), altitude hold (ALT HLD) and Control Stick Steering mode (CSS).

The Aircraft Monitoring System (AMOS) collects, processes and records data about the aircraft systems and aircraft loading, and provides automatic data retrieval and data transfer, via a Fairchild data transfer system, to the aircraft maintenance management system.

ENGINE

The aircraft is equipped with a Honeywell ITEC F 124-GA-100 engine developing a maximum thrust of 28kN. The F124 is a two-shaft non-afterburning turbofan engine with three-stage LP axial compressor. The HP compressor has four axial stages followed by one centrifugal. An Engine Monitoring System (EMS) is embedded in the dual Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) to store mechanical and performance data during flight, and has the capability to provide analytical and condition check-out on the ground.

Aero Vodochody is flight testing L-159 aircraft equipped with an in-flight refuelling probe.

In conclusion a very versatile choice, no matter what India picks for the 126 fighter tender
 

venom

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NEW DELHI — Rolls-Royce Defense Aerospace is exploring further opportunities in India as it awaits decisions in numerous pending bids in the military engine and civil nuclear arenas.

“We wish to take advantage of India’s competitive edge [by] extending our relationship with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) and in newer areas of value-added components,” said Anil Shrikhande, president of Rolls-Royce India.

“Engineering services is another area of expansion,” Shrikhandea added. “India has engineering talent in IT and its skill sets are evolving in engineering services… Labor rates remain attractive… [We will] look at a high labor content.”

There are 60 Rolls-Royce-designed vessels and more than 300 vessels with its Marine equipment operating in India, plus an additional 39 UT design vessels currently under construction at Indian shipyards. The company also opened a new Marine MRO facility in Mumbai last year.

Rolls-Royce is competing with Honeywell in a race to re-engine the Indian Air Force’s 125 Jaguar aircraft, with Rolls-Royce offering the Adour Mk 821 and Honeywell proposing the F125IN turbofan engine.

Rolls-Royce feels its strength is that HAL has been manufacturing the Adour Mk811 for the Jaguar since 1981 and is now producing the Adour 871 for the new Hawk Mk132 advanced jet trainer under a new licence agreement. India ordered 66 Mk132s.

There is a possible follow-on order for 57 more Hawks, with 40 for the Indian Air Force and 17 for the Indian Navy. The Hawk AJT aircraft powered by the Adour are being used to train the next generation of Indian pilots. The first HAL-produced Hawk aircraft with the HAL-produced Adour engine already has been delivered to the Indian Air Force.

Last month, Rolls-Royce said it had successfully installed and tested the Adour Mk 821 engine in a Jaguar aircraft to prove its capability and suitability for the Jaguar upgrade requirement. The Mk 821 engine was installed into a Royal Air Force Jaguar for the ground test at Cosford, which was witnessed by a representative of the Indian government. “The installation went smoothly and required no airframe changes. During testing the Adour Mk 821 ran at full reheat and passed all performance targets set down by the Indian Air Force,” Rolls says.

“As the only engine certified for the Jaguar we were always confident that the Adour MK 821 could be successfully installed without any aircraft modification, even with the new technologies and enhanced performance, but this exercise has allowed us to demonstrate this high level of compatibility to the Indian Air Force,” said Martin Fausset, managing director for Defense Aerospace. India’s Jaguars currently have the Adour Mk 811.

HAL is producing the Mk 871 for the advanced jet trainer Hawks. Commonality between the Mk 811 and Mk 871 is 90 percent, according to Rolls-Royce. “HAL can avoid costly investments in export control restrictions. Rolls offers the most cost-effective solutions,” Fausset insists. “Our Fadec [full authority digital engine control unit] will require less change with our system as far as cockpit changes, for instance, are concerned.”

Meanwhile, Honeywell is looking at the Jaguar aircraft with its F125IN turbofan engine. “Improved propulsion and enhanced safety features in the engine can save the [Indian Air Force] more than $1.4 billion in lifecycle costs compared to the other options being considered,” an official said early this year.

Rolls-Royce Eyes Business In India | AVIATION WEEK
 

Sridhar

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Monday, September 28, 2009

India's Next Advanced Trainer Competition













In April this year, the Indian Ministry of Defence put out requests for information (RFI) for advanced jet trainers to meet a requirement of 57 new lead-in trainer aircraft, of which the Indian Air Force needs 40 and the Indian Navy, 17. The RFIs were sent out after the Indian government, to the great agitation of BAE Systems, chose not to use the option of purchasing 40+17 additional Hawk-132s from BAE as part of the 2004 deal for 66 Hawks AJTs, currently being built under license by HAL. A small saving grace for BAE is the fact that they received an RFI too, for the Hawk-128, the trainer programme's latest build variant. Firms like RAC-MiG and Aero Vodochody, which were part of the unprecedented two-decade long advanced jet trainer competition that ended in BAE winning in 2004, are back in the fray, and will be hoping to capitalise big time on the tentative bad-blood that has been allowed to ferment between HAL and BAE Systems. The government is budgeting $1-billion for the next line of trainers. The six airplanes pictured above will compete once the formal tender is out. And that, of course, is contingent on whether BAE manages or fails to convince the government to change its mind and stick to the Hawk-132.

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: India's Next Advanced Trainer Competition
 

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