Hawk AJT:IAF orders 57 more; BAE-HAL may jointly market globally

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by A.V., Mar 21, 2009.

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which AJTs should IAF choose?

  1. ITALIAN alenia

    12 vote(s)
    11.5%
  2. BAE hawks

    39 vote(s)
    37.5%
  3. RUSSIAN yak-130

    20 vote(s)
    19.2%
  4. SOUTH KOREAN T-50

    17 vote(s)
    16.3%
  5. CZECH L-159

    5 vote(s)
    4.8%
  6. RUSSIAN mig-AT

    11 vote(s)
    10.6%
  1. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    .

    Indian Air Force (IAF) sources said here today that the new tenders -- Request for Proposals (RFP) in Defence parlance -- were issued about a month ago to six global aircraft manufacturers.

    Surprisingly, United Kingdom-based Hawks manufacturer BAE Systems finds a place among the six companies which had received the fresh tenders. But it was being approached for an upgraded version of the AJTs, sources said.

    Others trainers that the IAF has shown interest in and sent the tender papers to were Italy's Alenia for the M-346, Korean T-50s, the Chez L-159, Russian YAK-130 and MiG AT Trainer, sources said.

    After a procurement process that lasted nearly 20 years, India finally entered a contract for the delivery of 66 Hawks trainers with BAE in 2004. The contract had an in-built provision for a follow-on order for 40 more aircraft.

    But the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) had been finding it difficult to maintain the production lines for the aircraft at its facility due to considerable delays in spares supplies, sources said.

    The move of the IAF to go in for a new brand of trainer aircraft came as a surprise, as it had originally planned to have a single type of trainers in the fleet to train future fighter pilots.


    http://www.india-defence.com/reports-4275
     
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  3. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    Very surprising... and that too the fact that BAE finds a place again in the list of companies contacted for the new AJT....

    I wonder, why don't they go indigenous for this one too ??? Or, is it actually a ploy to get more indigenous trainers flying ???
     
  4. shiv

    shiv Regular Member

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    can anyone tell me what are the problems in our own HJT-36
     
  5. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    A few safety issues if Wikipedia is to be believed...

    A canopy flying off here... one landing on its belly there... But, I'm pretty sure that HAL is capable of making a light jet trainer, given that they have done a decent job of the LCA....
     
  6. Triton

    Triton Founding Member

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    What do you think? The jet trainers IAF already received are not up to their expectations? or has got trouble in maintaining them? Maybe the technology used in the current hawk trainers has got nothing new to offer in making the next generation trainers in house or improving the IJT?
     
  7. Triton

    Triton Founding Member

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    Project HJT-36 was scrapped by HAL after its design part underwent evaluation by the IAF's air staff requirement in 2005. IAF was not interested in developing such trainer & went ahead on importing Hawks from UK
     
  8. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Imo this has something to do with the govt policy, ie of issuing RFP to all competitors willing to supply to India ?
     
  9. pyromaniac

    pyromaniac Founding Member

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    Indian Air Force Issues Request For Proposals for Advanced Jet Trainers; BAE Hawks Du

    Upset over problems relating to spares supply for British 'Hawks' Advanced Jet Trainers (AJTs), India has shelved plans to place follow-on orders for the aircraft and instead floated new tenders to supplement its trainer fleet.

    Indian Air Force (IAF) sources said here today that the new tenders -- Request for Proposals (RFP) in Defence parlance -- were issued about a month ago to six global aircraft manufacturers.

    Surprisingly, United Kingdom-based Hawks manufacturer BAE Systems finds a place among the six companies which had received the fresh tenders. But it was being approached for an upgraded version of the AJTs, sources said.

    Others trainers that the IAF has shown interest in and sent the tender papers to were Italy's Alenia for the M-346, Korean T-50s, the Chez L-159, Russian YAK-130 and MiG AT Trainer, sources said.

    After a procurement process that lasted nearly 20 years, India finally entered a contract for the delivery of 66 Hawks trainers with BAE in 2004. The contract had an in-built provision for a follow-on order for 40 more aircraft.

    But the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) had been finding it difficult to maintain the production lines for the aircraft at its facility due to considerable delays in spares supplies, sources said.

    The move of the IAF to go in for a new brand of trainer aircraft came as a surprise, as it had originally planned to have a single type of trainers in the fleet to train future fighter pilots.


    Indian Air Force Issues Request For Proposals for Advanced Jet Trainers; BAE Hawks Dumped | India Defence


    Wasn't the hawk supposed to revolutionize how the IAF fought by having properly trained pilots?
     
  10. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    Moderators please merge... this thread already exists
     
  11. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    threads merged.
     
  12. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    Which AJTs should IAF choose?

    The Indian Air Force has issued Request for Proposals (RFPs) for 56 more Advanced Jet Trainers (AJTs) to six aerospace companies

    which AJTs should india go for?
     
  13. Mohan

    Mohan Respected Member

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    Whats wrong with the Hawk, It seems to be a good plane and I am confused now why to have two kinds of AJT,s you know about logistics. I have worked on that plane.
     
  14. pyromaniac

    pyromaniac Founding Member

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    The IAF scrapped the Hawk order after facing problems with the supply of spare parts, and is reportedly not keen on any BAE Hawks adorning its trainer fleet in the future. So that is the reason they want another Jet trainer and also why BAE prbly will not win.
     
  15. Mohan

    Mohan Respected Member

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    The numbers inducted/serving in airforce is small right now regarding spares considered and its a complete transfer of technology and the Guys in Hal are still working on the planes and transfer of technology.
     
  16. VayuSena1

    VayuSena1 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    I believe that according to what the training academies speak and what newspapers say, the Hawks are having a tough time obtaining spare from the BAe and therefore it is hampering the training schedules for the trainee pilots. As you know, it is essential that irrespective of whatever country we receive our equipment from, spares are a crucial element in them. Now I do not know how much truth is there in this but if the air force is seeking a newer fighter trainer, I would consider opting for the MiG-AT trainer.

    Not only would this back up the MMRCA with Russia where the most, favored choice of the military and civilians alike is Dassault's Rafale ( being an independent choice to either USA or Russia and being quite contrary to the media reports of a US potential winner, although F/A-18 SH is most likely the second or third favorite).

    This is of course only the political perspective of what I feel. But when considering the reality and the on-ground facts, I think all would depend on which aircraft can satisfy the Air Staff Specifications of the proposal committee.
     
  17. Mohan

    Mohan Respected Member

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    If they go for mig trainer then i believe that's a sign indicating that the 126 MMRCA will be a Russian aircraft or is it to just keep Russia happy if the airforce decides a non Russian aircraft. I am confused.

    Well they even might have thought of working out customisation's they can make in the mig tariner to suit both the latest Mig and the stealth aircraft in future, this is all my speculations thats it.
     
  18. Texasjohn

    Texasjohn Regular Member

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    I picked the L-159. Here is why IMHO.

    A proven airframe - but not necessarily a wimpy one. Will accept many different avionics for example.

    http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/l159/

    COCKPIT

    The cockpit arrangement and controls correspond to a modern fighter aircraft configuration. The Flight Visions Head-Up Display (HUD) with raster capability is the primary flight instrument and weapon aiming system. The multifunction colour displays are used for the display of flight and navigation information and weapons systems status. The Hands-On Throttle And Stick (HOTAS) control enables both pilots to control the aircraft without removing their hands from the throttle or the control stick.

    The cockpit is protected with composite and ceramic ballistic armour. Survivability is also increased by the provision of a fuel tank inerting system, an On-Board Inert Gas-Generating System (OBIGGS). VS-2 zero ejection seats and a canopy jettisoning system are fitted. The standard aircraft configuration also includes an On-Board Oxygen-Generating System (OBOGS).

    WEAPONS

    "The ALCA has been developed in the single-seat L159A and two-seat L159B versions."The aircraft is equipped with a Hamilton Standards Stores Management System. There are seven hardpoints to carry stores: three under each wing and one under the centre fuselage. These are capable of carrying a wide range of NATO standard weapons, including AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles, AGM-65 Maverick air-to ground missiles, rockets and free-fall bombs, a gun pod, laser-guided bombs, reconnaissance pods, electronic countermeasures pods and fuel drop tanks.

    The system is adaptable for the future addition of new weapons, including medium-range air-to-air missiles and special pods for ECM, reconnaissance, night navigation and targeting.

    COUNTERMEASURES

    The electronic warfare system consists of the BAE Systems Sky Guardian 200 radar warning receiver and the Vinten Vicon 78 series 455 countermeasures dispensing system. Provision is made for the installation of an electronic countermeasures (jamming) pod.

    AVIONICS

    The avionics system meets multi-mission requirements and provides capabilities similar to current-generation frontline fighter and ground attack aircraft. Avionics integration is via a MIL-STD-1553 databus, which facilitates future growth. The avionics system performs the following functions: target sensing, controls and displays, stores management, communication, navigation and identification, self-protection, and data loading and recording.

    The L159A aircraft is equipped with a Grifo-L multimode pulse Doppler radar produced by the Italian company, FIAR. For air-to-air search the radar has five modes of operation, can track up to eight targets and has track-while-scan capability. There are four submodes for air combat and nine modes for air-to-surface operations. The L159B is fitted with an electro-optical sensor or laser designator in the nose.

    "The system is adaptable for the future addition of new weapons, including medium-range air-to-air missiles."The aircraft's autopilot and yaw damper, supplied by BAE Systems Flight Controls, has Stall Avoidance System mode (SAS), automatic attitude hold (ATT HLD), heading hold (HDG HLD), altitude hold (ALT HLD) and Control Stick Steering mode (CSS).

    The Aircraft Monitoring System (AMOS) collects, processes and records data about the aircraft systems and aircraft loading, and provides automatic data retrieval and data transfer, via a Fairchild data transfer system, to the aircraft maintenance management system.

    ENGINE

    The aircraft is equipped with a Honeywell ITEC F 124-GA-100 engine developing a maximum thrust of 28kN. The F124 is a two-shaft non-afterburning turbofan engine with three-stage LP axial compressor. The HP compressor has four axial stages followed by one centrifugal. An Engine Monitoring System (EMS) is embedded in the dual Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) to store mechanical and performance data during flight, and has the capability to provide analytical and condition check-out on the ground.

    Aero Vodochody is flight testing L-159 aircraft equipped with an in-flight refuelling probe.

    In conclusion a very versatile choice, no matter what India picks for the 126 fighter tender
     
  19. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

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    Monday, September 28, 2009

    India's Next Advanced Trainer Competition

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    In April this year, the Indian Ministry of Defence put out requests for information (RFI) for advanced jet trainers to meet a requirement of 57 new lead-in trainer aircraft, of which the Indian Air Force needs 40 and the Indian Navy, 17. The RFIs were sent out after the Indian government, to the great agitation of BAE Systems, chose not to use the option of purchasing 40+17 additional Hawk-132s from BAE as part of the 2004 deal for 66 Hawks AJTs, currently being built under license by HAL. A small saving grace for BAE is the fact that they received an RFI too, for the Hawk-128, the trainer programme's latest build variant. Firms like RAC-MiG and Aero Vodochody, which were part of the unprecedented two-decade long advanced jet trainer competition that ended in BAE winning in 2004, are back in the fray, and will be hoping to capitalise big time on the tentative bad-blood that has been allowed to ferment between HAL and BAE Systems. The government is budgeting $1-billion for the next line of trainers. The six airplanes pictured above will compete once the formal tender is out. And that, of course, is contingent on whether BAE manages or fails to convince the government to change its mind and stick to the Hawk-132.

    LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: India's Next Advanced Trainer Competition
     
  20. NSG_Blackcats

    NSG_Blackcats Member of The Month OCTOBER 2009 Senior Member

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    ITALIAN alenia

    It develops and builds the advanced M346 twinjet lead-in fighter trainer, the M311 turbofan basic trainer and the latest variant of the classic F.260 piston-engine primary trainer. Now we have to see if they are short listed which version of the AJT IAF will be interested in.

    Here is the pics of M311.
    Pics copyright :- Alenia Aermacchi

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  21. F-14

    F-14 Global Defence Moderator Senior Member

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    i would rather go for the A/T-50 Golden egal sinces it can be used as a supersonic AJT and a Fighter jet also
     

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