HAL developing new varaint LCA-1P

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Jagdish58, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. Jagdish58

    Jagdish58 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    Bangalore
    HAL developing LCA-1P with AESA Radar

    Bangalore. India’s Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas programme has been delayed indeed, but to make up for it, HAL is now working on developing a new variant, LCA-I P, which will be equipped with an advanced AESA Radar and an electro-optic Electronic Warfare (EW) sensor suite.


    The timeline for this variant has been set at 2017, two years from now. The AESA radar will be supplied by Israel’s ELTA Systems, a subsidiary of Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI). ELTA had earlier supplied its AEW&C (Airborne Early Warning & Control) system for IAF’s IL-76 based Intelligence and surveillance aircraft, designated by IAF as AWACS (Airborne Warning & Control Systems) aircraft.

    AESA, or Active Electronically Scanned Array radar, is the key component in the AWACS, enabling a 360 degree look-down-and-around capability to IAF for about 400 km. The aircraft is designed to guide combat fleets and ground assets in a war scenario. With no moving part, AESA is much faster in capability than earlier airborne radars in which rotodomes moved mechanically – and rather slowly – to scan different areas.

    AESA in fact was always in the LCA programme, and there were discussions with some foreign companies as well as with the state-run BEL in developing it. Finally the choice has gone to ELTA, which in any case has been collaborating with BEL. LCA also has a sophisticated fly by wire system and glass cockpit. Once the programme gets going, HAL may manufacture some 200 aircraft for IAF and perhaps another 100 for the Navy.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    AESA in the LCAs will obviously have a lower range, but it will be well integrated within the IAF network, and give a quantum technology jump to IAF’s combat capability. Notably, the 36 Rafales being acquired by IAF in the Government-to-Government deal will also have the AESA radar, developed by Thales.

    IAF’s AWACS aircraft – three delivered, two on order – are already integrated with its combat, transport and land assets and also networked with aircraft of the Indian Navy.

    HAL has in principle support from the Government, and is now working on the proposal with the IAF (Indian Air Force) in this regard. This variant will be developed on the existing LCA-MkI model, and will meet IAF’s requirements till the larger LCA Mk II is developed by 2021 with the more powerful GE 414 engine.

    HAL Chairman and Managing Director (CMD) T Suvarna Raju told India Strategic in an interview that HAL shared the technology concerns of the user – IAF – as well as the urgency for production of the aircraft in view of the falling numbers of IAF combat squadrons due to obsolescence. The AESA and EW suite will make the new LCA variant more advanced than the supersonic MiG 21s in capability, even though it will be a subsonic aircraft compared to the ageing aircraft of the Soviet vintage.

    A key technology being adopted now is 3D printing, which will cut design and production time by months. This is now being used for engines but it is being adopted for various aspects of aircraft design and production.

    P in the LCA-I P stands for prototype, but once accepted by IAF, it could be designated LCA-MkI-A or whatever.



    LCA-MkI, which achieved IOC-II (Initial Operational Capability, stage II) in January 2014 for acceptance by IAF as it is produced and tested, is yet to get the FOC (Final Operational Capability) but the focus now is on adding the EW package, originally planned for the LCA-MkII.

    The aircraft will continue to have the same GE 404 engine however in this variant, but the lack of adequate power will be compensated by the warfare capability generated by the new sensors, with AESA providing a formidable force multiplication. This type of radar uses multiple frequencies to electronically scan several targets simultaneously.

    The earlier radars used to have mechanically moving parts, whose output was painfully slow compared to the new generation electronic technology.

    Notably, US companies Raytheon and Northrop Grumman have an established lead in the AESA systems while in Europe, Thales has just about achieved it for installation on Rafale and Eurofighter aircraft. In fact, AESA was a key requirement for India’s MMRCA (Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft) competition, and the 36 Rafale jets being acquired from France should have both the AESA as well as the Infra Red Search and Track (IRST) system.

    Israel is known for its excellence in electronic warfare systems, and ELTA should be able to meet IAF’s specific requirements.

    Notably, IAF is not happy with the GE 404 engine, regarding it as underpowered for warfare. But only 40 aircraft are slated for production with this engine. For LCA-MkII aircraft, there is an agreement for 99 GE 414 engines already with the US engine maker. The production of that aircraft is due to begin from 2021.

    [​IMG]

    The new LCA-MkI-P variant with the EW Package will also add some 50 kilos of more weight, but then, Mr Raju explained, the capability of the aircraft increases significantly, offsetting the disadvantage of a smaller engine.

    The current LCA-MkI version uses 210 kilos with ballast in the nose to stabilize the aircraft. This will be removed, and the AESA and EW suite weighing about 250 kilos will be added. The net weight gain will be of about 50 kilos.

    LCA-MkI and LCA-MkII are both single engine aircraft, hence the power of their engines to provide thrust to the aircraft and sustain their power-guzzling electric and electronic systems, particularly the radar, will always be critical.

    [​IMG]


    There are two naval versions also with high landing gear as technology demonstrators. The naval version has to be much stronger than air force aircraft as every landing on the limited space of a carrier is like a crash landing, and the aircraft has to be stopped by one of the three onboard arrestor wires which latches on to a hook in the tail of the aircraft. If the attempt fails by chance, then the aircraft has to take off again, and that is why its engine(s) are kept on full power.

    Mr Raju said that Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar was taking personal interest in the development of indigenous technologies and systems, including in the LCA, and HAL was working to speed up whatever it could do.

    For one thing, it is proposing now to take full charge of the LCA development programme to become the single responsible agency. Right now, the design and development of the aircraft, engines, weapons package etc, are with DRDO and its Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

    During a recent visit to HAL, this writer saw several young engineers, one of them trained in the UK. Like them, Mr Raju had joined HAL while young some 40 years back. He is as passionate now as he was perhaps then. He observed optimistically: We are taking steps in talent and technology to meet the timelines.

    There is an emphasis on composite materials, for which Indian companies, both in public and private sectors, need to do a lot. Significantly, about half of the LCA is made of composite materials, which are lighter but stronger than the aircraft grade aluminum.

    HAL has built seven LCA-MkI aircraft under LSP (Low Rate Series Production) and two under the SP (Series Production).

    Significantly, LCA has passed several crucial tests in operating from tough summer and mountainous terrains as well as in firing missiles.

    http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories3767_HAL_developing_LCA-1P_with_AESA_Radar.htm
     
  2.  
  3. mayankkrishna

    mayankkrishna Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    326
    200 follow on orders will be good for the industry !!
     
  4. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,418
    Most of them would be mk2.

    @Jagdish58 Mate is your avatar PS of F35 and mki?
     
  5. indiandefencefan

    indiandefencefan Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    130
    Wait ............ is this integrated into the tejasMK1 or tejasMK2 or is this a standalone variant ????
     
  6. Jagdish58

    Jagdish58 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    Bangalore
    It is a variant of LCA Mk1 , some thing like Tejas Mk1+
     
  7. Jagdish58

    Jagdish58 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    Bangalore
    [​IMG]
    LCA mk2 model , note bulged fuselage & wide intake

    [​IMG]
    FAN BOY LCA strike variant
     
    Lions Of Punjab and Srinivas_K like this.
  8. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,674
    Likes Received:
    3,351
    We should also go for DSI technology.
     
  9. Jagdish58

    Jagdish58 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    Bangalore
    From Basic F-16 A of 70's now it is a beast F-16 block 60 with AESA and enhanced EW systems

    LCA should also prevail in block only then true value of the project can be met

    it should not have a premature death like HF-24 Marut

    Navy will completely back LCA , IAF will brush it aside in favour of foreign high expensive toys
     
    ersakthivel and Kunal Biswas like this.
  10. Jagdish58

    Jagdish58 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    Bangalore
    Jungle camouflage LCA mock up

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Shirman

    Shirman Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    395
    Location:
    Siyasat-e-Hind
    Israelis have been proposing this since last Aero india 2013 I guess it was Tamir Eshel of Defence Update who came up with this or at least i knew the concept for the first time. He talked about integration of Python 5s, Derby, Litening targeting pod,IAI EL/M-2052 AESA and Elbit Dash 3 HMD which was posted either by @Kunal Biswas or @Twinblade in earlier post here is the link of that site :- http://defense-update.com/20130206_advanced-systems-improve-tejas-fighting-skills.html#.VW7-dFIprKs
    Regarding IAF going in for Expensive toys i guess it won't happen now they are seeing the writing on the wall........they got KLPD by Congress, Antony and Sonia big time in last 10 years...........
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2015
    ersakthivel, SajeevJino and Kharavela like this.
  12. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    27,610
    Likes Received:
    28,426
    Location:
    BHARAT, INDIA, HINDUSTHAN
    This Tejas variant is has capability of MK2 with enhanced ECM suit for protection as well as for electronic attack, But will be retaining Tejas MK1 body ..

    Tejas MK1P is important because it will be essential to keep running HAL production line until MK2 comes in picture ..
     
    archie, ersakthivel and tejas warrior like this.
  13. Ind4Ever

    Ind4Ever Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    117
    Wow .Amazing news till date . As far as weight to thrust ratio is concerned LCA is far better than Jf17 .

    Adding AESA and EW suite will make this little best the most modern single engine fighter second to latest version of F16s This is no point in buying whole new fighter from abroad when we have flying prototypes and buying few state of the art equipments will do the trick .

    I still remember I discussed the very issue in baki forum .Few months ago during 36 MMRCA deal our DM said MK1 + version is under way .Which will be having many capabilities planned for MK2. And MK2 is set to undergo serious changes literally starting from scratch so time like could be by 2021 we will start inducting MK2. Till then " Improved "Tejas MK1 not the current version but improved version will be added in numbers making total to 100 or 80 or 60 more .till MK2 production starts ...

    Bang ON . I love this government the way they work is really good. Taking care of very unique problems resulting delays. Good going Modi Ji and team . Simply fabulous . :hail:

    Hope this time line for 2017 will never be missed . Good we bought AESA radar directly from Israel rather waiting for UTTAM radar

    :biggrin2::bounce:,
     
    archie, Kharavela and tejas warrior like this.
  14. Ind4Ever

    Ind4Ever Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    117
    Wow .Amazing news till date . As far as weight to thrust ratio is concerned LCA is far better than Jf17 .

    Adding AESA and EW suite will make this little best the most modern single engine fighter second to latest version of F16s This is no point in buying whole new fighter from abroad when we have flying prototypes and buying few state of the art equipments will do the trick .

    I still remember I discussed the very issue in baki forum .Few months ago during 36 MMRCA deal our DM said MK1 + version is under way .Which will be having many capabilities planned for MK2. And MK2 is set to undergo serious changes literally starting from scratch so time like could be by 2021 we will start inducting MK2. Till then " Improved "Tejas MK1 not the current version but improved version will be added in numbers making total to 100 or 80 or 60 more .till MK2 production starts ...

    Bang ON . I love this government the way they work is really good. Taking care of very unique problems resulting delays. Good going Modi Ji and team . Simply fabulous . :hail:

    Hope this time line for 2017 will never be missed . Good we bought AESA radar directly from Israel rather waiting for UTTAM radar

    :biggrin2::bounce:,
     
    ersakthivel likes this.
  15. Ind4Ever

    Ind4Ever Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    117
    Exactly .IAF must stop whining about MMRCA which is a white elephant and start follow Navy's way to develop indigenous capabilities . AESA Radar , EW suit , BVR , refueling pods , Multi role , reliable engine ... What else do we need ?

    Am sure we gonna push numbers of MK1 P to 60 + as 40 MK1 are already ordered . Fabulous news . MK2 AMCA will have more range and power punch for the future .
     
  16. Ind4Ever

    Ind4Ever Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    117
    IAF for sometimes acting like jealous siblings of Navy . First they want one then they want what ever Navy wants lol :p

    And LCA won't die .Just now it got real life . MK1- P will be hot seller for Many countries which can't afford double engine fighters . Vietnam should be our main buyer it benefits us in many other dimensions ;)
     
    ersakthivel and tejas warrior like this.
  17. Jagdish58

    Jagdish58 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    Bangalore
    Truth is LCA Naval mk1 surprised experts in first ski jump test, rate of climb expected was 5.7 degree but aircraft actually achieved excess of 10 degree and angle of attack 21.6 degree

    Why it is such a big deal?? Aircraft which had heavy undercarriage , landing gear , under power engine and labelled not carrier combat cabaple fought against odd in extreme sea level condition

    hence this bird can take off aboard carrier with full combat load with current airframe and powerplant, but IAF still feels it's airforce cousin still not combat ready lol they need gripen and rafale so that they can spend trillions in upgrade

    LCA-P1 will make it to both the carriers and keep the production running till mk2 comes in,10 out of 10 for both HAL and ADA for coming up with this new variant and it will pave way for quicker induction since there will be no major change in airframe

    Who knows in future hybrid kaveri engine can also make a come back with mk1 and mk1P

    Let IAF whimp
     
  18. tejas warrior

    tejas warrior Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    674
    Likes Received:
    1,398
    Location:
    India
    Looks combat ready. Is this a real aircraft or just a prototype on display ?
     
  19. Jagdish58

    Jagdish58 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    Bangalore
    Guess it is mock up going with the shape
     
  20. Jagdish58

    Jagdish58 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    Bangalore
    Kunal Biswas likes this.
  21. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    6,359
    Likes Received:
    3,661
    Location:
    New Delhi
    The time frame of the new engines GE 414 need to be expedited.

    With the active backing of the new RM this spells good news for the LCA Project. Now we need at least one squadron in the IAF as soon as possible. MK 2 will have to develop out of the trials and regular sorties that IAF will do with this squadron. And HAL will have to spruce up their supply chain so that the spares for the LCA are available for regular maintenance.
     

Share This Page