HAL Advanced Light Helicopter Dhruv

[abingdonboy]

So helicopter shortage at least partially being addressed through 8 chetaks , 16 dhruvs and ka-27 upgrade.

What stopped us making at least chetaks for time being? For every destroyer with 2 hangars we could have filled at least 1 empty slot with MATCH chetaks.

The Chetak would be totally inadequate for destroyers, the IN wants 10+12 ton NMRH with the latest ASW equipment, a Chetak is a utility helo at best.

 

[charlie]

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[kstriya]

Dhruv ASW in 2008

Dhruv ASW in 2017

Is this ASW variant accepted by the INDIAN NAVY? it can be a stop gap before a NMRH is bought or developed. Can we have this variant of ALH on every INS platform?

 

[abingdonboy]

Is this ASW variant accepted by the INDIAN NAVY? it can be a stop gap before a NMRH is bought or developed. Can we have this variant of ALH on every INS platform?

How is a 5.5 ton light helo meant to be as capable as a 10 (or 12) ton NMRH in the ASW role?

Let's not delude ourselves.

 

[aditya g]

Problem is that our mod cannot get is act together and conclude contracts. Navy has selected a Nmrh but we can't sign on dotted line

 

[kstriya]

How is a 5.5 ton light helo meant to be as capable as a 10 (or 12) ton NMRH in the ASW role?

Let's not delude ourselves.

We have a fixation on everything light, small or compact like with our indigenous aviation product examples. ALH in a ASW role can be a stop gap solution only but a cost effective JUGAD. Why is it a ASW helo needs to be in the medium.category why not a light helo dedicated to do ASW missions? With technology advances everything is getting small lesser weight and compact with which we have a good affiliation

 

[abingdonboy]

We have a fixation on everything light, small or compact like with our indigenous aviation product examples. ALH in a ASW role can be a stop gap solution only but a cost effective JUGAD. Why is it a ASW helo needs to be in the medium.category why not a light helo dedicated to do ASW missions? With technology advances everything is getting small lesser weight and compact with which we have a good affiliation

It's just not possible, a light weight helo doesn't have the range or payload capacity to carry the requsite sensor suite for a meaningful ASW role.

The technology clearly isn't advanced to the point that it can be fitted on a small platform, look at what others major nations operate; US Navy (10 ton S-70B, mainstay ASW helo), Royal/Spanish/Italian Navy (13 ton EH-101 mainstay ASW helo) French Navy (12 ton H225M mainstay ASW helo).

Again, let's not delude ourselves, the ALH is good for many roles but ASW is not one of them, why try to make a square peg fit a round hole?

 

[OmniCurious]

It's just not possible, a light weight helo doesn't have the range or payload capacity to carry the requsite sensor suite for a meaningful ASW role.

The technology clearly isn't advanced to the point that it can be fitted on a small platform, look at what others major nations operate; US Navy (10 ton S-70B, mainstay ASW helo), Royal/Spanish/Italian Navy (13 ton EH-101 mainstay ASW helo) French Navy (12 ton H225M mainstay ASW helo).

Again, let's not delude ourselves, the ALH is good for many roles but ASW is not one of them, why try to make a square peg fit a round hole?

Well, there aren't light weight 'combat helicopters', 'combat aircraft' either in US/Russian/French armies/airforces. But India carved out a niche for itself in creating them!!
The original reason why Indian Navy rejected Dhruv in ASW role was that the the chopper had too much vibration and the rotor blades couldn't be folded. Seems like both those problems have been fixed now.
ASW choppers do need to carry heavy loads - Torpedos especially. Dhruv ASW choppers could possibly carry the TALs.
That said, a bigger/heavier chopper is definitely more preferred than a smaller/lighter one - even though the Indian jugaad will work to some extent!!

 

[kstriya]

Well, there aren't light weight 'combat helicopters', 'combat aircraft' either in US/Russian/French armies/airforces. But India carved out a niche for itself in creating them!!
The original reason why Indian Navy rejected Dhruv in ASW role was that the the chopper had too much vibration and the rotor blades couldn't be folded. Seems like both those problems have been fixed now.
ASW choppers do need to carry heavy loads - Torpedos especially. Dhruv ASW choppers could possibly carry the TALs.
That said, a bigger/heavier chopper is definitely more preferred than a smaller/lighter one - even though the Indian jugaad will work to some extent!!

What is the weapons carrying capacity of ALH ? Is it light weight torpedoes used in ASW platform, if yes can the Indian LWT used in ALH?

 

[OmniCurious]

What is the weapons carrying capacity of ALH ? Is it light weight torpedoes used in ASW platform, if yes can the Indian LWT used in ALH?

After accounting for fuel and pilots, Dhruv should have 1.5 tonne load carrying capability (probably half of S-70) but should be ok to carry couple of TALs (220kgs each); a dunking sonar; maritime radar etc!!
ASW choppers normally carry short range torpedos (makes no sense to launch a long ranged torpedo when the chopper can fly much faster in the air towards the detected sub)

 

[OmniCurious]

What is the weapons carrying capacity of ALH ? Is it light weight torpedoes used in ASW platform, if yes can the Indian LWT used in ALH?

After accounting for fuel and pilots, Dhruv should have 1.5 tonne load carrying capability (probably half of S-70) but should be ok to carry couple of TALs (220kgs each); a dunking sonar; maritime radar etc!!
ASW choppers normally carry short range torpedos (makes no sense to launch a long ranged torpedo when the chopper can fly much faster in the air towards the detected sub)

In addition to TAL torpedos and other sensors Naval Dhruv could also carry couple of short-range (light weight) anti-ship missiles.

The big dead weight (that's normally part of ASW arsenal) that naval Dhruv can get rid off is the depth charges - traditionally ASW choppers literally carry a TONNE of depth charges, which are nothing but gravity bombs in water!!! These could easily be replaced with more precision oriented and lighter missiles. Not a bad jugaad!!!

 

[kstriya]

In addition to TAL torpedos and other sensors Naval Dhruv could also carry couple of short-range (light weight) anti-ship missiles.

The big dead weight (that's normally part of ASW arsenal) that naval Dhruv can get rid off is the depth charges - traditionally ASW choppers literally carry a TONNE of depth charges, which are nothing but gravity bombs in water!!! These could easily be replaced with more precision oriented and lighter missiles. Not a bad jugaad!!!

Any idea on the sensor package for ASW role, its dead weight and any new advancement in technology like compact or miniaturizing the package?

 

[OmniCurious]

Any idea on the sensor package for ASW role, its dead weight and any new advancement in technology like compact or miniaturizing the package?

Normally the ASW sensor suite involves:
A maritime radar - to detect surface ships and surface subs
A dunking sonar - to detect deep submerged subs
A towed MAD boom - 'magnetic anomaly detector' to detect close to surface subs (while the chopper is flying)

DRDO has developed it's own chopper based maritime radar (SV-2000 and XV-2004) and a Low Frequency Dunking Sonar. Not sure if DRDO has developed it own MAD boom (should be easy to purchase from other vendors)!!

The dead weight (unnecessary weight) that I was referring to in traditional (large) ASW choppers is the set of depth charges - that're heavy and not as effective as a torpedo!!

 

[kstriya]

Normally the ASW sensor suite involves:
A maritime radar - to detect surface ships and surface subs
A dunking sonar - to detect deep submerged subs
A towed MAD boom - 'magnetic anomaly detector' to detect close to surface subs (while the chopper is flying)

DRDO has developed it's own chopper based maritime radar (SV-2000 and XV-2004) and a Low Frequency Dunking Sonar. Not sure if DRDO has developed it own MAD boom (should be easy to purchase from other vendors)!!

The dead weight (unnecessary weight) that I was referring to in traditional (large) ASW choppers is the set of depth charges - that're heavy and not as effective as a torpedo!!

Thank you for the information, Indian Navy plans to have a 200 strong vessels force but without a ASW platform it can be a sitting duck. In 71 war the only vessel was lost to a porki sub. We can have two ALH instead of one NMRH if space allows on board to compensate the short leg and weapons carrying capacity. Also two ALH can cover mover area possibly. I guess this is the only best solution IN has.

 

[tejas warrior]

Turnover of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited soars to all-time-high

BENGALURU: The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has achieved the highest ever turnover of Rs 17,406 crore for the financial year ending March 31, 2017.

“It is business as usual for us with the company doing well on expected lines. We also contributed around Rs 800 crore to the government exchequer by way of interim dividend. This is in addition to Rs 162 crore paid to the government as dividend tax. The profit before tax (PBT) stood at Rs 3,294 crore,” said HAL Chairman and Managing Director T Suvarna Raju.

The company expects ‘Excellent’ MoU rating for the FY 2016-17 from the government as it has met all the relevant parameters related to its performance.

HAL’s total sales for the year 2015-16 stood at Rs 16,736 crore and the PBT was at Rs 3 288 crore, according to release issued by HAL.

Some of the highlights of the FY 2016-17 included production of 12 Su-30 MkI aircraft in Phase-IV, 24 ALH, overhauling of 197 aircraft / helicopters, 473 engines and production of 178 new aero-structures.

The company received orders worth Rs 21,000 crore that included 12 Do-228 aircraft for the Indian Navy, 32 ALH for the Indian Navy and the Coast Guard and AL-31 FP engines for Su 30 MkI.

The year also witnessed maiden flight of HTT-40 and LUH in addition to carriage trials of LCA with fixed air to air refuelling probe, a release said.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/bus...s-limited-soars-to-all-time-high-1588930.html

 

[tejas warrior]

Turnover of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited soars to all-time-high

BENGALURU: The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has achieved the highest ever turnover of Rs 17,406 crore for the financial year ending March 31, 2017.

“It is business as usual for us with the company doing well on expected lines. We also contributed around Rs 800 crore to the government exchequer by way of interim dividend. This is in addition to Rs 162 crore paid to the government as dividend tax. The profit before tax (PBT) stood at Rs 3,294 crore,” said HAL Chairman and Managing Director T Suvarna Raju.

The company expects ‘Excellent’ MoU rating for the FY 2016-17 from the government as it has met all the relevant parameters related to its performance.

HAL’s total sales for the year 2015-16 stood at Rs 16,736 crore and the PBT was at Rs 3 288 crore, according to release issued by HAL.

Some of the highlights of the FY 2016-17 included production of 12 Su-30 MkI aircraft in Phase-IV, 24 ALH, overhauling of 197 aircraft / helicopters, 473 engines and production of 178 new aero-structures.

The company received orders worth Rs 21,000 crore that included 12 Do-228 aircraft for the Indian Navy, 32 ALH for the Indian Navy and the Coast Guard and AL-31 FP engines for Su 30 MkI.

The year also witnessed maiden flight of HTT-40 and LUH in addition to carriage trials of LCA with fixed air to air refuelling probe, a release said.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/bus...s-limited-soars-to-all-time-high-1588930.html

I thought we can make 36/yr, 24 is quite less.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

#Super_Vision_2000 an airborne 3D naval surveillance radar, meant for helicopters and light transport aircraft. The SV-2000 is a lightweight, yet high performance, slotted array radar operating in the X Band. It can detect sea-surface targets such as a periscope or a vessel, against heavy clutter, and can also be used for navigation, weather mapping and beacon detection. The radar can detect a large vessel at over 100 nautical miles (370 km). It is currently under modification to be fitted to the Advanced Light Helicopter, and the Navy's Do-228's. Variants can be fitted to the Navy's Ka-25's as well. The radar has been inducted by the Indian Navy and a more advanced variant of the Super Vision, known as the XV-2004 is now in production. The XV-2004 is also operational, and features an ISAR, SAR Capability.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Due to advanced design, the cabin of ALH Is almost as big as S-92. With more powerful engines, better transmission, new rotor assembly and blades we can have 10 ton MTOW Naval ALH within one year. But Import Raj Jindabad.

 

[kstriya]

Due to advanced design, the cabin of ALH Is almost as big as S-92. With more powerful engines, better transmission, new rotor assembly and blades we can have 10 ton MTOW Naval ALH within one year. But Import Raj Jindabad.

I fail to understand when we have the required technology, when we are so desperate that we are buying used ASW helps from Canada who themselves are abandoning it why just can we make use of brand new ALH with all latest technology for dedicated ASW platform?

 

[Alok Arya]

#Super_Vision_2000 an airborne 3D naval surveillance radar, meant for helicopters and light transport aircraft. The SV-2000 is a lightweight, yet high performance, slotted array radar operating in the X Band. It can detect sea-surface targets such as a periscope or a vessel, against heavy clutter, and can also be used for navigation, weather mapping and beacon detection. The radar can detect a large vessel at over 100 nautical miles (370 km). It is currently under modification to be fitted to the Advanced Light Helicopter, and the Navy's Do-228's. Variants can be fitted to the Navy's Ka-25's as well. The radar has been inducted by the Indian Navy and a more advanced variant of the Super Vision, known as the XV-2004 is now in production. The XV-2004 is also operational, and features an ISAR, SAR Capability.

It is very surprise and positive development, never heard such a programme is progressing. Want to ask few questions,
1. Is it indigenous development or jv or out right purchase .
2. Is it aesa ? As I heard that all software algorithms of Uttam tested on a smaller radar on a rotatory wing air born plateform . Is it snippoff of that smaller radar used in Uttam development ?
3. Can it be used as air to air targeting?