Guardian Drones for Indian Navy

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by lcafanboy, Jun 22, 2017.

  1. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Guardian is the naval variant of the Predator B drone or to call it by its proper name, the MQ-9 Reaper.

    The Guardian Unmanned Aircraft System (UAS) was developed by the US Office of Air and Marine (OAM) in partnership with the US Coast Guard. It would be used by the Indian Navy for wide-area, long- endurance maritime intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance missions.

    The Indian Navy made the request for this intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) platform last year.
     
  2. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    The unit cost of a Guardian is 16.9 million (flyaway cost, as in 2013, maybe a max of $20 million a pop as of 2017). So that's about $450 million for 22 Guardians. As to how the figure of $2-3 billion has been arrived at is not clear. Even if one adds cost of training, spares, maintenance, life cycle costs etc the contract should not have been more than $1 billion. There's something more than meets the eye here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
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  3. mendosa

    mendosa Regular Member

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    Most US weapon sales come with a law which states that the US has a right to conduct annual examination of the weapons to make sure that they are being used under the terms that they were signed under.

    We purchased an amphibious landing craft INS Jalashwa and the US Navy annually inspects.

    Following is a quote from Wiki page : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Jalashwa_(L41)

     
  4. Wisemarko

    Wisemarko Regular Member

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    This is India paying back for getting into MTCR. There is no real need to get these drones from US. There are other naval platforms that are desperately needed and not being acquired.
     
  5. Johny_Baba

    Johny_Baba अज्ञानी

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    So much for a capitarist nation.

    Do you think Russians,Israelis and French make similar contracts when we buy their weapons?
     
  6. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yup, I concur.

    This deal looks like hafta to US for continued co-operation on other issues.

    We can get some indication when the deal goes for senate approval, based on changes done to the deal at senate approval we may get some clues.

    Instead for spending more on American lobbyists directly , our guys might be trying to leverage American defence lobby.
     
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  7. tharun

    tharun Patriot Senior Member

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    My guess the defence lobby in US is more powerful than any others,We are paying in-directly for lobbying.
     
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  8. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Its not obligatory. It depends on both the parties on how to get along with the deal. So this time around we migh not see the same clause. But anyway OEM would have one provision or other to ensure that their product can't be cloned or copied.
     
  9. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    I'd agree as well as disagree. 22 numbers for surveillance is bit too much for Navy alone. But it doesn't mean that it would be for Navy alone. couple of these would be for internal security purpose too. Remember we are using Israeli Heron for this purpose as of now.
    Moreover deploying P-8I each and every time for surveillance is a costly affair. We do need some alternative.
     
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  10. lcafanboy

    lcafanboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    China concerned by US-India surveillance drones deal

    In China, many experts see the Modi government crafting a much closer relationship with the US and deepening defence ties, but at the same time do not expect India to become an ally.

    Ananth Krishnan | Posted by Isha Gupta Beijing, June 26, 2017 | UPDATED 12:57 IST

    [​IMG]
    Narendra Modi and US President Donald Trump in Washington on Monday, with particular attention on the deal for surveillance drones that would boost India's capabilities in the Indian Ocean, Chinese experts have said.

    The agreement for around 22 unarmed surveillance drones is among the agreements on the agenda, while a deal for co-producing F-16 fighter aircraft was also finalised before the visit between Lockheed Martin and Tata.

    Han Hua, a leading Chinese strategist who is Director of the Center for Arms Control and Professor at the School of International Studies at Peking University, told India Today: "Some people in China are a little concerned. Still, it is not the most advanced technology being shared for example when you look at the F-16s. But that is only one issue of defence cooperation. There is also the transfer of surveillance drones in the Indian Ocean. It will increase India's capability to have a view over the entire Indian Ocean. That is more symbolic than the F-16 joint production."

    CHINA CLOSELY WATCHING OUTCOMES

    China is closely following the outcomes of the visit. As in Delhi, there was some concern in Beijing following Trump's election considering his unpredictability, although Chinese President Xi Jinping had a surprisingly cordial visit to the US, where he was welcomed at Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort.

    Han Hua said, "I think the US-India relationship has an impact on the China-US relations. After the Bush administration opened the door to India, people in Washington have been talking about India's role in checking China's rise. Especially after the nuclear deal in 2005, the relationship between Washington and New Delhi has emerged as a concern among Chinese strategists. Especially the nuclear deal, as it's not just a nuclear deal. It is a more symbolic way to show the nature of the strategic partnership between US and India. In that sense, China is concerned."

    AT THE SAME TIME, BEIJING NOT OVERLY CONCERNED

    At the same time, one reason Beijing is not overly concerned is that in its view, ahead of India on the agenda for Trump is dealing with North Korea. "The Trump administration cannot solve the North Korea problem by itself. Maybe China provide a kind of solution. As many Americans think, China has a high stake in that issue," said Han.

    Han, who is also a leading expert on nuclear issues, also said she wasn't sure if Trump would do the heavy-lifting required to push India's membership to the Nuclear Suppliers Group. "We haven't witnessed any specific policy change on NSG after the Trump administration in terms of India's membership. Some people have said the administration supports the membership but a strong statement hasn't been made yet in that issue," she said.

    In China, many experts see the Modi government crafting a much closer relationship with the US and deepening defence ties, but at the same time do not expect India to become an ally as in the case of Japan or even Philippines.

    "I think my conviction is India in terms of foreign policy independence that is very well entrenched in the country no matter who is the ruling party." said Han. "Modi, people tend to think is more nationalist or takes a very realistic view on the world rather than the middle-line policies taken by Congress. In my sense, India is still a country with its own pride and glory so I don't think India will go very far from the current foreign policy decision-making. Some people say Modi has already been quite close to the US in strategic terms but for me that trend will go a little bit further but not far beyond the general non-alignment policy.
    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...lance-drones-defence-agreements/1/987508.html
     
  11. Starscream

    Starscream Regular Member

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    Yes there is. And you can't learn all with a screwdriver set. Almost most of the task is onboard data processing, classifying and transmitting. You can't read all of the code without they allowing you to. Same goes for the hardware. Or else we would have seen Chinese clone performing exactly similar to western counterparts.

    Umm not really. Last time we got C130s we did swap out the comm suite. That would mean having command centers on near shore locations. This could possibly justify the cost.

    Hi, good see a familiar name. I have been a regular visitor of the Porky(everything but) Defense Forum. Joined here few months back. Active only a few weeks.

    With the amount of space based assets Navy is planning to have and with the recent heavy lift capability we see ISRO has gained, I don't think will be relying on US STACK. We can already see that even in earlier acquisitions we had swapped out IFFs and the radios. Plus won't these systems already have Link 16 on them? We won't anyways have Link 16 on them there is no rationale to have US SATCOM stack. Herin lies the secret of that high price tag...
     
  12. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    They should be concerned..
    It's because of them and their R.A.N.D.I Friend that we are buying these....
     
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  13. mahesh

    mahesh Regular Member

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    As we also reaching our hands to Israel drones. Can we equip this with US unarmed drones with Israeli once ?

    Sent from my irisX8 using Tapatalk
     
  14. airtel

    airtel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Guardian UAV deal with U.S. still a work in progress
    [​IMG] Dinakar Peri
    NEW DELHI, July 17, 2017 00:02 IST
    Updated: July 17, 2017 01:24 IST

    [​IMG]

    • Share Article
    • Reuters

      Defence sources say New Delhi is evaluating options
      An American approval for the sale of 22 Guardian maritime surveillance has come India’s way, but defence sources say the actual deal is a long way off as New Delhi is evaluating the options available.

      They gave a willingness. We have to look at the options as we have specific requirements. There are a few options available. This specific issue is on the table now. We got the offer and we will look into it,” a senior defence official told The Hindu.

      Another official said government-to-government discussions were under way but declined to put any timeline as to when it could be concluded. There was much speculation that the deal, likely between $2-2.5 billion, would be announced during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Washington last month. However, while there was no such announcement, the U.S.-India joint statement issued at the end of the visit said Washington had “offered for India’s consideration the sale of Sea Guardian Unmanned Aerial Systems” which would enhance India’s capabilities and promote shared security interests.

      “Given the Sea Guardian’s capabilities, such a U.S. response to the Indian Navy’s request demonstrates a major change in U.S. policy as this type of aircraft capability is only exported to a very select few of America’s closest defence partners. This represents tangible implementation of U.S. Congress’ designation of India as a Major Defence Partner,” Dr. Vivek Lall, Chief Executive, U.S. and International Strategic Development, General Atomics said.

      Boosting capabilities

      The Navy currently operates Israeli Medium Altitude Long Endurance (MALE) UAVs and is keen on acquiring High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) to augment its maritime surveillance capabilities. The other option is to go for Israeli HALE drones, which India is quite familiar with. Last year, the Navy asked General Atomics for the details of the Guardian, following which company officials made presentations on its capabilities.



      http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-still-a-work-in-progress/article19290017.ece

      so it was just another American Propaganda Like F-16 deal :laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
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  15. lcafanboy

    lcafanboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    US releases Guardian to India, mulls on Avenger UCAV deal
    Published July 21, 2017 SOURCE: FE

    [​IMG]

    The US has confirmed that the critical Category One UAV technology from US-based General Atomics has been released, acceding to India’s strong request. Also, the Indian Air Force has requested for 100 units of Predator C Avenger aircraft worth $8 bn.

    Highly placed sources told FE, “The White House under President Donald Trump spearheaded the interagency process to make a very significant policy change in favour for India by granting this technology as desired by India based on senior Indian government requests.”

    As reported by FE earlier, Indian Navy had sent the letter of request for 22 Sea Guardians in June 2016 and under the Obama administration no tangible action was taken. However, the biggest tangible take away from the Trump-Modi deliberations in Washington DC recently was operationalisation of the major defence partner relationship.

    General Atomics chief executive Vivek Lall, a former Boeing official and NASA scientist, who is considered as the father of US India defence relations, met US Vice President Pence post the Prime Minister Modi visit.

    Lall had commented, “We are extremely pleased President Trump and Prime Minister Modi have had excellent deliberations and the path forward for a game changer in US India defence relations has been charted. Given the Sea Guardian’s capabilities such a US response to the Indian Navy request demonstrates a major change in US policy because this type of aircraft capability is only exported to a very select few of America’s closest defence partners.

    This represents tangible implementation of US Congress’ designation of India as a major defence partner.” According to sources, India has been requesting predator technology for several years, and it was only the combination of Trump and Modi that they were able to move the decision to this point. India was able to join MTCR after significant role of United States backing its entry. Observers term this as another major foreign policy success for Modi.

    Earlier this year, the Indian Air Force (IAF) had also officially requested the US government for General Atomics Predator C Avenger aircraft. This request is being actively considered by the White House as a second step after operationalising the 22 Guardian aircraft for the Indian Navy.

    As military aviation transforms globally to autonomous systems, US and India have a great opportunity to collaborate at the highest levels of technology and innovation. Overall Indian requirement for UAVs is approximately 650 units.

    http://idrw.org/us-releases-guardian-to-india-mulls-on-avenger-ucav-deal/#more-141869 .
     
  16. SELVAM

    SELVAM Regular Member

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  17. SELVAM

    SELVAM Regular Member

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    Did we really need this surveillance drones? Why we r spending 2 billion $ for just 22 unarmed drones?
     
  18. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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  19. rkhanna

    rkhanna Regular Member

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    These Drones will cover Littoral needs and take pressure of the other manned Surv Assets/ enabling them to go further out. They will also form layered surv with the Searcher IIs currently with the navy.

    We have a LARGE coastline and a number of Islands to cover and a certain Straight to keep an eye on.

    The operating costs of these drones are much lower than our current manned fixed wing assets.
     
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  20. WolfPack86

    WolfPack86 Senior Member Senior Member

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    I hope India and US to complete Sea Guardian deal by December 2017.
     

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