Greek PM announces referendum on EU membership

The Messiah

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Greek referendum: Papandreou 'dancing on a volcano

It is just a week since Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou was heralding "a new day for Greece and a new day for Europe" after marathon talks in Brussels to ease the country's debt burden.

There was a palpable sense of relief as EU leaders emerged from late-night talks, hammering out the deal which would write off half of Greece's debt and give another 100bn euros (£86bn; $140bn) to the country in new bailout funds.

But now, in one stroke, that relief has turned to panic, the whole agreement is threatened with disaster and markets worldwide have plummeted. The cause: the astonishing announcement by Mr Papandreou that a public referendum would be held on whether Greece should accept this latest debt deal.

He called it "a supreme act of patriotism and democracy", but many both in Greece and elsewhere would instead see it as a supreme act of misjudgement.

There is the feeling here that Greece can ill afford more instability and uncertainty and yet the call for a referendum creates just that.

Polls show the majority of Greeks are against the austerity measures and have a negative view of the latest debt deal.

If the No vote were to win in a referendum, it would lead Greece to declare bankruptcy, default on its debt and possibly force it to leave the euro altogether.

Nation 'divided'

One MP, Milena Apostolaki, has already defected from Mr Papandreou's Pasok party after the referendum announcement.

She told me: "At this extremely difficult time, the priority must be to make all the sacrifices of the Greek people worthwhile. But this plan divides the nation and puts at risk Greece's European perspective."

Other Pasok MPs have threatened to follow suit. With six senior party members openly calling on Mr Papandreou to resign, it is clear that the referendum plan has thrown Greece into a political crisis, to add to its financial woes.

European leaders reacted furiously. A senior member of Germany's governing coalition called it "an attempt to wriggle out of the deal". French President Nicolas Sarkozy said the move "surprised all of Europe". George Papandreou is likely to face a serious dressing down from the French and German leaders at the G20 summit in Cannes.

Ordinary Greeks, too, have been caught off guard. This country last held a referendum in 1974 when people voted to abolish the monarchy after a military dictatorship. There was no talk of a referendum after the previous two bailout deals negotiated in Brussels. Nobody here expected it to come this time.

A gruelling seven-hour cabinet meeting on Tuesday led to what the prime minister's office called "unanimous support" from the government. But beneath the surface, there are serious misgivings among many Greek politicians.

"The Prime Minister is tossing Greece's EU membership in the air like a coin", said a spokesman for the opposition New Democracy party.

They are also furious at a decision by Mr Papandreou to replace senior members of the armed forces, ostensibly because they opposed his plans for military spending cuts.

The move stirs uncomfortable memories in a country that lived under a military junta for seven years. New Democracy called it an attempt to fill the army with party faithful before fresh elections, which they want to be called immediately.

While Mr Papandreou insists elections will not come earlier than the scheduled poll in 2013, his government is now teetering on the verge of collapse.

He has called a confidence motion in parliament on Friday. With a majority of just two MPs since the defection of Ms Apostolaki, any victory would be on a knife edge. If he loses the vote, the government would break down and no referendum would take place at all.

So why did the prime minister make this high-stakes gamble?

One school of thought is that he wanted to shift responsibility for the austerity measures from his shoulders to those of the Greek people, so that in the case of victory he would be able to push on with his policies, reinforced by a popular mandate.

Another is that he is simply throwing in the towel, trying to leave Greece's political stage after realising that the depth of hostility here against him is irredeemable.

But he may also be banking on this - that while the majority here are hostile to the bailout terms, polls show that most Greeks also want their country to stay in the euro.

If the referendum question could be framed in terms of remaining in the eurozone or making a disastrous exit, he could yet win and strengthen his hand considerably.

It is, though, an extremely dangerous game for an already embattled prime minister.

George Papandreou is dancing on a volcano here. The question is, could that volcano erupt as early as this Friday's confidence vote, and could the referendum plan bring an end to Mr Papandreou's premiership?

BBC News - Greek referendum: Papandreou 'dancing on a volcano'
Hopefully the greeks decide to vote against the austerity :namaste:
 

Damian

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Hopefully this will be the beggining of the end of European Union... c'mon Greeks, fight for Your independence from these morrons in Brussels, and inspire other to fight for their freedom!
 

The Messiah

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Hopefully this will be the beggining of the end of European Union... c'mon Greeks, fight for Your independence from these morrons in Brussels, and inspire other to fight for their freedom!
You want poland to break away ?

I think poland has benefited more.
 

Armand2REP

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The referendum is only on accepting the bailout, not the EU or the Euro.
 

Damian

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You want poland to break away ?
Of course, all patriots in our country want to go out this sick thing called EU, look at other countries, they want this in UK, even many Germans want to break off EU.

Look what these morons are doing, they are increasing debt in all EU countries, they are destroying our economys, they are wasting money for useless initiatives, they are increasing taxes making people more poor. So:

I think poland has benefited more.
No we not, because many improvements were made by using foreing money, not money made by our economy, this is like debt, and it is debt, debt that is increasing each day, hour, minute, second.

All western world is sick, and this cancer is called socialism, one of forms of this socialism is EU.

Do You know what these bastards were doing to make my country less competetive? They were bulling (with succes) our goverment to increase taxes, soon we will have probably next taxes increase making our life even harder.

Listen what about EU are talking such people like Nigel Farage or Daniel Hannan, and they are talking not only about UK problems, but also about problems of each country in EU. And great respect for them, that they have a courage, to stand against these tyrants, liers and thiefs that are steeling our money, freedom and whant to destroy in the end our sovereignty.

These left wing fucktards are allready wanting to block our Independence March organized by patriotic movements, calling normal citizens and patriots fascists and nazis.

But this is not worst what these people are doing, what are they doing to Greece is even more horrible, horrible was when they bullied Slovakia to give money for Greece even when Slovakian Parliment voted against. This is how worth are rights of each nation for EU.


So yes, it will be a huge holliday for me and patriots in all European nations, when EU finally collapse.
 
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Armand2REP

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They can't say screw you or they lose their pension system. $30 billion worth of it in Greek Bonds is in jeopardy of being wiped out.
 

Damian

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It is better for them to screw Euro, bankrupt now, bring back Drahma, devaluate it, than bankrupt later with Euro.

Of course there are many reasons why current Freanch and Germans goverments are against this, even if more and more countries using Euro will bankrupt in future.

More and more people should realize that this system just don't work.
 

asianobserve

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I sold all my stock holdings yesterday. I was burned the first time Greece thithered on bankrupcy. This latest development is really bad news. Italy is threatening to be sucked into the vortex of bankrupcy - the dark side of capitalism and globalised economy. Now Athens is the center of the World again as the World waits for developments from the Greek capital...
 

Damian

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Don't worry, it will just end era of controled free market, and after some bad years we will back to normality. We just need such catharsis.
 

asianobserve

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It is better for them to screw Euro, bankrupt now, bring back Drahma, devaluate it, than bankrupt later with Euro.

Of course there are many reasons why current Freanch and Germans goverments are against this, even if more and more countries using Euro will bankrupt in future.

More and more people should realize that this system just don't work.


I would agree. But this would be bad news for the markets at leats on the short term.
 
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This one currency concept has been a dismal failure. Good thing USA did not push the Amero idea of one currency for Canada,US,Mexico.
 

Damian

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I would agree. But this would be bad news for the markets at leats on the short term.
Short term is better option than long term.

This one currency concept has been a dismal failure. Good thing USA did not push the Amero idea of one currency for Canada,US,Mexico.
Of course!
 

thakur_ritesh

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What is it that is prompting the call of referendum?

Is it just domestic politics as the article suggests?

One school of thought is that he wanted to shift responsibility for the austerity measures from his shoulders to those of the Greek people, so that in the case of victory he would be able to push on with his policies, reinforced by a popular mandate.

Another is that he is simply throwing in the towel, trying to leave Greece's political stage after realising that the depth of hostility here against him is irredeemable.

But he may also be banking on this - that while the majority here are hostile to the bailout terms, polls show that most Greeks also want their country to stay in the euro.
Is china playing its cards back door of a spoiler to the EU?

Could china step in to foot in the bill for Greece, if Greece was to decide on giving up on EU?

Can someone please clarify? Thanks.
 

Tshering22

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So they're wanting to return back to Drachma? I don't think Eurozone really suits the Greek economy well. Considering that they're worst case in European Union and that France and Germany seem to be bailing out everybody, I think EU should cease and there should be a return to the old system of individual currencies.

But dissolution of the Euros would make Dollar the most dominant world reserve currency with only alternatives left as British Pounds, Chinese Renmibi, German Mark and Indian Rupee (I don't want this to happen as of yet).
 

Damian

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But dissolution of the Euros would make Dollar the most dominant world reserve currency with only alternatives left as British Pounds, Chinese Renmibi, German Mark and Indian Rupee (I don't want this to happen as of yet).
Why the hell You are so affraid USD as main currency? It worked well in the past it will work well in future, what USD need is a reform and back to the gold standard, if this will happen everything should be ok.

And the more currencies over the world, the better it will be, we all know that decentralisation is a good thing. :)
 

The Messiah

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Why the hell You are so affraid USD as main currency? It worked well in the past it will work well in future, what USD need is a reform and back to the gold standard, if this will happen everything should be ok.

And the more currencies over the world, the better it will be, we all know that decentralisation is a good thing. :)
Because then the yanks can keep on printing unlimited dollars without its value depreciating.

I for one dont want that or usa to remain superpower.

In other news the greek pm has canceled the referendum :laugh:
 

Damian

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Because then the yanks can keep on printing unlimited dollars without its value depreciating.
If they will give chance to people like Ron Paul and people from his camp, situation should change for better, better for US and for the rest of world.

I for one dont want that or usa to remain superpower.
On the other hand I want USA as a superpower, mainly because they are the only superpower where people belive that they can change the world for better without conquering it with military means... something very unique and positive.

But I know I know, You belive that Yanks = Devils, and everybody should love Che Guevara that was a mass murderer. ;)

In other news the greek pm has canceled the referendum :laugh:
He is idiot... or maybe not, I just heard the rethoric of these eurocrats and I wonder if any country if it want will let be out of EU or they will force such country to stay by any means possible, and I fear the worst.
 

The Messiah

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You see you and me want the same thing for different reasons. Id love nothing better than hardcore right wingers to gain power in usa because they'll weaken it even more.

If che is a mass murderer then so are the allies in europe because they executed nazis after the war or what about after the yank civil war, mr lincoln is a saint aint he :laugh:
 

Damian

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You see you and me want the same thing for different reasons. Id love nothing better than hardcore right wingers to gain power in usa because they'll weaken it even more.
Typical socialist babble talk. You have no idea about what right wing is and about free capitalist economy. Look at PRC, they actually besides official ideology said fuck you socialistm and hey, they have one of the most quickly growing economy on this planet. If people let back normality to our countries (west) we will once again be strong.

I say this easier:

Give us lower taxes, we will be less poor, we will buy more, companys will have more money for investitions and for workers, eliminate social spending, people will start working, because it will be more profitable than using public money, and because people will be less poor, they will be buying more goods, companys will have more work, more work means more workers needed, everything that = economy growth.

Of course, there will be interim stage where situation will not be beatifull, but it is better than slowly die and bankrupt because of socialist economy made by left wing politicians.

if che is a mass murderer then so are the allies in europe because they executed nazis after the war or what about after the yank civil war, mr lincoln is a saint aint he :laugh:
There ae no saints, but Che was one ugly motherfucker, it is good that someone get rid that piece of shit out of face of earth, pitty that more socialists were not killed... fucking cancer.
 

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