Greatest Indian of the 20th Century

[Pratap]

Ok meant Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose.The man who stood 4th in ICS exam.The man who took up arms against the British during WWII instead of spending his time on useless agitations.If Indians forget him we have no hope left in this country.

Did not you see that icon representing smile? In my view, Patel and Bose were greatest and let us put both of them on same pedestal. You have soft corner because you are Bengali but i am neither Bengali nor Gujarati.

 

[Peter]

True that. His brahmacharya experiments are also enough indication of his mental shallowness. If he remained active for a decade more, India would have been cut to Pakistan size. His remarks on Hindu women of Sindh and Punjab was also rather cruel as he asked them to go back to Pakistan when they fled jehadis due to danger of being raped. It is high time that Gandhi is publicly humiliated for his nonsense.

I really cannot believe Gandhi asked them to do so.The more I learn about him the more doubtful I become of this Mahatma.But then again lets not talk about their negative traits.

 

[Pratap]

Ok meant Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose.The man who stood 4th in ICS exam.The man who took up arms against the British during WWII instead of spending his time on useless agitations.If Indians forget him we have no hope left in this country.

(Gandhi and Patel also had many problems.Shows not everyone liked Gandhi.So Netaji was no exception.Only Nehru chacha had apparent love for Gandhi or did he?)

Patel objected to " brahmacharya experiments" of Gandhi and hence was sidelined.

 

[Pratap]

I really cannot believe Gandhi asked them to do so.The more I learn about him the more doubtful I become of this Mahatma.But then again lets not talk about their negative traits.

Are you in favour of censorship?

 

[Bhadra]

Being called nazi is too mild? Brahmins had and have many faults but they were not nazis .

Oh Nazies were promoting "Aryan Homeland" ideas and so were Brahmins.... The Aryavarta..

आसमुद्रात्तु वै पूर्वादासमुदात्तु , पश्चिमात्

तयोरेवान्-तरं गिर्योरार्यावर्तं विदुर्बुधाः --मनु 2-22

एतान द्विजातयो देशान् संश्रयेरन प्रयत्-नतः
शुद्रस्-तु यस्मिन् कस्मिन् वा निवसेद व्रतिकार्शितः----मनु 2-24


So what difference

 

[Peter]

Are you in favour of censorship?

No just dont feel that it would be good to talk bad about this famous men.

 

[Bhadra]

Being called nazi is too mild? Brahmins had and have many faults but they were not nazis .

Oh Nazies were promoting "Aryan Homeland" ideas and so were Brahmins.... The Aryavarta..

आसमुद्रात्तु वै पूर्वादासमुदात्तु , पश्चिमात्

तयोरेवान्-तरं गिर्योरार्यावर्तं विदुर्बुधाः --मनु 2-22

एतान द्विजातयो देशान् संश्रयेरन प्रयत्-नतः
शुद्रस्-तु यस्मिन् कस्मिन् वा निवसेद व्रतिकार्शितः----मनु 2-24


So what difference

 

[Peter]

Patel objected to " brahmacharya experiments" of Gandhi and hence was sidelined.

Now I get it.As Nehru not only allowed but also participated in Gandhi`s innovative "brahmacharya experiments" he was made PM of the country which has given us dynastic politics.This idea seems legit.Btw the post is getting a bit derailed I think.

 

[Pratap]

Oh Nazies were promoting "Aryan Homeland" ideas and so were Brahmins.... The Aryavarta..

आसमुद्रात्तु वै पूर्वादासमुदात्तु , पश्चिमात्

तयोरेवान्-तरं गिर्योरार्यावर्तं विदुर्बुधाः --मनु 2-22

एतान द्विजातयो देशान् संश्रयेरन प्रयत्-नतः
शुद्रस्-तु यस्मिन् कस्मिन् वा निवसेद व्रतिकार्शितः----मनु 2-24


So what difference

So buffalo and Jains are similar because both of them are vegetarians? You are out of mind if you compare Manu with Himmler.

 

[Bhadra]

Now I get it.As Nehru not only allowed but also participated in Gandhi`s innovative "brahmacharya experiments" he was made PM of the country which has given us dynastic politics.This idea seems legit.Btw the post is getting a bit derailed I think.

Why are you discussing individual as an individual and a man or a woman? How did Gandhi's experiment with Truth harm the socio political movement ??

Next you will discuss his goat and her milk.. ??

 

[Peter]

Why are you discussing individual as an individual and a man or a woman? How did Gandhi's experiment with Truth harm the socio political movement ??

Next you will discuss his goat and her milk.. ??

I am not discussing anything.To be said precise I just replied to a quote of Pratap.As I said earlier lets not talk ill of such men as it will only cause debate and argument.Lets talk of their contributions to Indian society.

 

[Bhadra]

So buffalo and Jains are similar because both of them are vegetarians? You are out of mind if you compare Manu with Himmler.

You are strangeman ??


I was talking of comparison between Nazi ideas of "Lebensraum" and Manus ideas of "Aryavarta" .....

Manu and Himler ?? Himmler was never an ideologue ? He was incharge of extermination Camps ??

If you want to know about Nazi ideologues then read this :

List of Nazi ideologues - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[shinoj]

Difference between Hitler and Manu was Hitler wanted his idealogy to be implemented at any Cost and at any cost of any number of Humans. He was an extremist while Manu was not.

The Difference is not that hard to understand

 

[Bhadra]

Difference between Hitler and Manu was Hitler wanted his idealogy to be implemented at any Cost and at any cost of any number of Humans. He was an extremist while Manu was not.

The Difference is not that hard to understand

Ha... I will now quote from Rigveda that will show you deliberations, hardness and intentions :

INDRA and Soma, burn, destroy the demon foe, send downward, O ye Bulls, those who add gloom to gloom.
Annihilate the fools, slay them and burn them up: chase them away from us, pierce the voracious ones.
2. Indra and Soma, let sin round the wicked boil like as a caldron set amid the flames of fire.
Against the foe of prayer, devourer of raw flesh, the vile fiend fierce of eye, keep ye perpetual hate.
3. Indra and Soma, plunge the wicked in the depth, yea, cast them into darkness that hath no support,
So that not one of them may ever thence return: so may your wrathful might prevail and conquer them.
4. Indra and Soma, hurl your deadly crushing bolt down on the wicked fiend from heaven and from the earth.
Yea, forge out of the mountains your celestial dart wherewith ye burn to death the waxing demon race.
5. Indra and Soma, cast ye downward out of heaven your deadly darts of stone burning with fiery flame,
Eternal, scorching darts; plunge the voracious ones within the depth, and let them sink without a sound.
6. Indra and Soma, let this hymn control you both, even as the girth encompasses two vigorous steeds-
The song of praise which I with wisdom offer you: do ye, as Lords of men, animate these my prayers.
7. In your impetuous manner think ye both thereon: destroy these evil beings, slay the treacherous fiends.
Indra and Soma, let the wicked have no bliss who evermore assails us with malignity.
8. Whoso accuses me with words of falsehood when I pursue my way with guileless spirit,
May he, the speaker of untruth, be, Indra, like water which the hollowed hand compresses.
9. Those who destroy, as is their wont, the simple, and with their evil natures barm the righteous,
May Soma give them over to the serpent, or to the lap of Nirrti consign them.
10. The fiend, O Agni, who designs to injure the essence of our food, kine, steeds, or bodies,
May he, the adversary, thief, and robber, sink to destruction, both himself and offipring.
11. May he be swept away, himself and children: may all the three earths press him down beneath them.
May his fair glory, O ye Gods, be blighted, who in the day or night would fain destroy us.
12. The prudent finds it easy to distinguish the true and false: their words oppose each other.
Of these two that which is the true and honest, Soma protects, and brings the false to nothing.
13. Never doth Soma aid and guide the wicked or him who falsely claims the Warrior's title.
He slays the fiend and him who speaks untruly: both lie entangled in the noose of Indra.
14. As if I worshipped deities of falsehood, or thought vain thoughts about the Gods, O Agni.
Why art thou angry with us, Jatavedas? Destruction fall on those who lie against thee!
15. So may I die this day if I have harassed any man's life or if I be a demon.
Yea, may he lose all his ten sons together who with false tongue hath called me Yatudhana.
16. May Indra slay him with a mi weapon, and let the vilest ofghty
all creatures perish,
The fiend who says that he is pure, who calls me a demon though devoid of demon nature.
17. She too who wanders like an owl at night-time, hiding her body in her guile and malice,
May she fall downward into endless caverns. May press-stones with loud ring destroy the demons.
18. Spread out, ye Maruts, search among the people: seize ye and grind the Raksasas to pieces,
Who fly abroad, transformed to birds, at night-time, or sully and pollute our holy worship.
19. Hurl down from heaven thy bolt of stone, O Indra: sharpen it, Maghavan, made keen by Soma.
Forward, behind, and from above and under, smite down the demons with thy rocky weapon.
20. They fly, the demon dogs, and, bent on mischief, fain would they harm indomitable Indra.
Sakra makes sharp his weapon for the wicked: now, let him cast his bolt at fiendish wizards.
21. Indra hath ever been the fiends' destroyer who spoil oblations of the Gods' invokers:
Yea, Sakra, like an axe that spilts the timber, attacks and smashes them like earthen vessels.
22. Destroy the fiend shaped like an owl or owlet, destroy him in the form of dog or cuckoo.
Destroy him shaped as eagle or as vulture as with a stone, O Indra, crush the demon.
23. Let not the fiend of witchcraft-workers reach us: may Dawn drive off the couples of Kimidins.
Earth keep us safe from earthly woe and trouble: from grief that comes from heaven mid-air preserve us.
24. Slay the male demon, Indra! slay the female, joying and triumphing in arts of magic.
Let the fools' gods with bent necks fall and perish, and see no more the Sun when he arises.
25. Look each one hither, look around Indra and Soma, watch ye well.




The Rig Veda/Mandala 7/Hymn 104 - Wikisource, the free online library

 

[Pratap]

Why are you discussing individual as an individual and a man or a woman? How did Gandhi's experiment with Truth harm the socio political movement ??

Next you will discuss his goat and her milk.. ??

Because once an individual is arrogant, he thinks that he is above " petty social morals"and resorts to indecency. This means that man is tyrannical and has massively narcissitic view of himself. Such a man would never be good to society. That was the case with Mao, that was the case with Gandhi and that was the case with Nehru. These individuals did not fail but deliberately broke normal social morals having an ego which is unrivalled.

In case of Gandhi, his experiments caused bitterness between him and Patel and hence it had negative fallout too.

 

[Pratap]

Difference between Hitler and Manu was Hitler wanted his idealogy to be implemented at any Cost and at any cost of any number of Humans. He was an extremist while Manu was not.

The Difference is not that hard to understand

Manu was just a law giver who was concerned with maintaining caste hierarchy, purity of religion and well being of society. Those who attack him should know that he lived in an age when Romans were castrating hundrerds of thousands of boys and turning them into passive eunuchs.

All pre modern societies were inequal not just India.

 

[Bhadra]

Because once an individual is arrogant, he thinks that he is above " petty social morals"and resorts to indecency. This means that man is tyrannical and has massively narcissitic view of himself. Such a man would never be good to society. That was the case with Mao, that was the case with Gandhi and that was the case with Nehru. These individuals did not fail but deliberately broke normal social morals having an ego which is unrivalled.

In case of Gandhi, his experiments caused bitterness between him and Patel and hence it had negative fallout too.

No wonder, this way you will not leave Sri Ramchandra also...

 

[Pratap]

No wonder, this way you will not leave Sri Ramchandra also...

Ramchandra never broke any social morals of his age( his killing of sambuka was justified by that society) and comparing him with sexually obsessed rats like Nehru is like comparing Jugnu with Surya.

Ramchandra's message was to raise arms when needed not " turn the other cheek". Gandhi was just an Englishman posing as Indian in dhoti preaching humbugness of some 20th century westerners . If this nation has to progress, it has to dump Gandhiwad and Nehruism in dustbin.

 

[Peter]

No wonder, this way you will not leave Sri Ramchandra also...

Hey please do not start talking bad of Sri Ramchandra.He is a godly figure for many including me.I just cannot stand anyone talking bad about him.So avoid turning this into a dirt throwing thread.

 

[Pratap]

@Bhadra
Read this

So, Gandhi's religious pluralism, today his main claim to fame, was essentially the transposition of a Western ideological fashion. Of Vivekananda, it is routinely claimed that he was besieged by alternative religionists as soon as he set foot in the USA, and that this influence coloured his view and presentation of Hinduism. Gandhi's worldview too was determined by Western contacts, starting in his student days in England, when he frequented vegetarian eateries, the meeting-place par excellence of various utopians and Theosophists. It must be emphasized that he borrowed from one current in Western culture while ignoring another, viz. the critical questioning of religion. Historical Bible studies had reduced Jesus to a mere accident in human history, neither the Divine incarnation worshiped by Christians nor the spiritual teacher venerated by many Hindus. In the pious Mahatma, this very promising rational approach to religion was wholly absent.

Hindus themselves are partly to blame, having long abandoned their own tradition of philosophical debate, embracing sentimental devotion instead. This has led to a great flowering of the arts but to a decline in their power of discrimination. Great debaters like Yajnavalkya or Shankara would not be proud to see modern Hindus fall for anti-intellectual soundbites like "equal respect for all religions". Very Gandhian, but logically completely untenable. For example, Christianity believes that Jesus was God's Son while Islam teaches that he was merely God's spokesman: if one is right, the other is wrong, and nobody has equal respect for a true and a false statement (least of all Christians and Muslims themselves). Add to this their common scapegoat Paganism, in India represented by "idolatrous" Hinduism, and the common truth of all three becomes unthinkable. It takes a permanent suspension of the power of discrimination to believe in the syrupy Gandhian syncretism which still prevails in India.