Govt looking at 100,000 MW solar power by 2022

[Singh]

On the same scale, you are for AAP because they are for blakanisation of India so that you can unite with your PakJabi brothers.

How would balkanization of India lead to unionization of Greater Punjab ?

==

Now how does that feel?

Not very good because I would prefer an Akhand Bharat, where all signboards are in Hindi and I get to burn Ravana in Ravan worshipping lands.

==

Btw, what I said was true. AAP leader of TN is the same dog which led the Anti-KKNP protests, the dog which is under the employ of the Church on the orders of his western masters. Also, was it not true that AAP is also against the Narmada dam height increase?

"In a dramatic move, PMANE coordinator S P Udayakumar on Thursday resigned from the Aam Admi Party (AAP) citing lack of 'clear-cut' policy on nuclear power projects in the Arvind Kejriwal led-outfit."
Upset Udayakumar Leaves Aam Admi Party - The New Indian Express

AAP for the forseeable future will be a Delhi-Punjab based party.


==

AAP in my eyes are worse than congress as they are blatantly anti-national and want balkanisation of India as per their western masters' wishes

BJP will do the bidding of their Brahmin masters sitting in Nagpur

 

[ladder]

Mindless retarded rant is ignored for being mindless retarded rant. If only DFI had a IQ checking system

Yes, if DFI would have had IQ checking system then somebody would have failed in JAN 2012. :taunt1:

 

[Mad Indian]

How would balkanization of India lead to unionization of Greater Punjab ?

So Punjab can hold its own against pakistan huh?Never knew Punjab was that strong

"In a dramatic move, PMANE coordinator S P Udayakumar on Thursday resigned from the Aam Admi Party (AAP) citing lack of 'clear-cut' policy on nuclear power projects in the Arvind Kejriwal led-outfit."
Upset Udayakumar Leaves Aam Admi Party - The New Indian Express

Why did they induct him in the first place? Did they not know what or who he was? Even then, they dint evict him. He left. Anyway, AAP still has a long way to go to clear my suspicions against it

AAP for the forseeable future will be a Delhi-Punjab based party.

Good for rest of India

==

BJP will do the bidding of their Brahmin masters sitting in Nagpur

I would prefer my brahmin masters(who are Indian) to the western masters:taunt1:

 

[Singh]

So Punjab can hold its own against pakistan huh?Never knew Punjab was that strong

You are right Pakistan will annex Indian Punjab.

And then Pakistan, and China will come to the aid of Sri Lanka and conquer Tamil Nadu.

Sinhalese and Punjabi will become the official languages of Tamil Nadu.

===

Why did they induct him in the first place? Did they not know what or who he was? Even then, they dint evict him. He left. Anyway, AAP still has a long way to go to clear my suspicions against it

Good for rest of India

Happens to any new outfit.
==

I would prefer my brahmin masters(who are Indian) to the western masters:taunt1:

I would prefer to be ruled by people with "imaginary western masters"

Brahmins are Aryans and anti-Dravidian, didn't Periyar say that ?

 

[TrueSpirit1]

Germany's renewable sourced energy is not applicable to India.

India require lot more electricity and that too very soon and very cheap.

Coal:
We have one of the world's largest coal reserves and thermal electricity generation cost is about <50p-1rs/ unit

Hydro:
We have a lot of hydel power potential, but because we are a very densely populated country, with dysnfunctional laws on land acquisition, resettlement and environment. It will take us a long time for gestation of such projects. And these projects also require a lot of $.

Nuclear:
It is a very cheap source of electricity, albeit with potential hazards. Problem with nuclear power is one and one only: the Liability clause.
BJP has made another U-turn and now decided to stick with UPA's liability clause. No company whether PSU or foreign will accept this liability clause.
Nuclear power will not take off for the foreseeable future. And if it does it will be very costly to mitigate the liability clause.

Gas:
Gas based electricity can also be used for critical sectors. Its definitely not as cheap as coal. However, GoI's decision both under Congress and BJP to raise Ambani's domestic Indian gas prices to present 6.17$/mmbtu (1 us$ = 62Rs) makes it one of the biggest crimes against the Indian public.
Oil and Gas prices are at an all time low worldwide and instead we are paying one of the highest rates for our own gas.

Renewables:
Whilst admirable, renewable electricity is expensive. That's the only problem I have. When you have an option of generation cheap electricity via thermal or nuclear, why go in for very expensive electricity via renewables ?
The Govt has to offer a lot of incentives, cheap loans, subsidises, and also raise the rate of electricity to make this sector viable.

In my understanding, the source which:

1) generates least pollution,
2) has minimal impact of environment & health
3) is sustainable for future generations (in terms of requirement of other nonrenewable natural resources, e.g. fresh water as coolant)

should be the one, to go for. We need not ape everything what the West did decades did ago (maybe, is still doing). We should go for what suits Indian conditions. India- a peninsular landmass with huge coastlines along with substantial desert regions. A nation that enjoys significant sunlight throughout the year.

Short term cost-savings have a huge bearing on national exchequer in form of "requisite healthcare outlay". How much the govt. allocates is immaterial. What matters is, more outlay would be required to cater to health issues (very much avoidable), arising out of pollution.

So, while coal/thermal appears cheap & alluring, we should remember that there are other sources (e.g. Wind in coastal & desert regions, & Solar in 90% of Indian landmass) which albeit appear costly (only initially- only till economies of scale come into play & technology hones), would exact a much lesser toll on the lives of our children.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

It is not without any reason that Rajasthan- a state enjoying revitalized governance model with structural reforms already completed/underway & Gujrat (governance needs no introduction, here) are ordering/commissioning more & more Wind Energy plants.

The only thing worth discussing in this thread (at least, what I would be really interested in) is:

1) Data comparing pollution caused by Conventional vs. Non-conventional sources
2) Comparison of required non-renewable natural sources in case of Conventional vs. Non-conventional sources (e.g. which one would need least water/fresh water & real estate) as well as, capital outlay & gestation period.

 

[Singh]

@TrueSpirit1

Sorry but in both your posts you are talking like a hippy who thinks India is a developed, western nation.

As an Indian who wishes for his country to grow at over 8% and be on the path to development, I would only go for the cheapest source of energy.

Those worried about pollution and its effects may go for expensive energy or appropriately subsidise me.

 

[ladder]

Welspun Energy forays into solar rooftop space; builds three projects

Welspun Energy forays into solar rooftop space; builds three projects - Economic Times

Through cumulative 795 kilowatt capacity, WEPL is reducing the carbon footprint by helping to generate an estimated 11 lakh units of clean energy annually, the statement said.

=====================

Duty exemption on components used for rooftop solar power projects: Ministry of New & Renewable Energy

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...New-Renewable-Energy/articleshow/45350661.cms

 

[TrueSpirit1]

@TrueSpirit1

Sorry but in both your posts you are talking like a hippy who thinks India is a developed, western nation.

As an Indian who wishes for his country to grow at over 8% and be on the path to development, I would only go for the cheapest source of energy.

Those worried about pollution and its effects may go for expensive energy or appropriately subsidise me.

8% or 800% ..but, at what cost ? At the cost of what ?

My health ? My children's health ?

Health is wealth- is it redundant now ? Is health not related to well-being <feeling nice & being happy> ?

Or, some self-serving statistics can substitute for our basic need of "feeling good & being healthy". Are you not aware of rampant Cancer incidences in Punjab, Great Noida etc. & their causes ?

Or, you have absolute no concern for the health of millions Indians who live in areas where mining of fossil-fuel happens ? Since, you live so far away from the wretched areas, where the mineral wealth of India lies, makes you impervious to their plight. Why not, for starters, shift to some area where coal-based thermal power plants are based. I have visited enough plants (in UP) to understand this, first-hand.

If you have some data that proves "renewable sources cause comparable/more pollution vis-a-vis fossil-fuels", then, please share.

"Numbers/growth charts, etc. will not compensate for human desire to be healthy". Hence, requesting- If you have some data that proves "renewable sources cause comparable/more pollution vis-a-vis fossil-fuels", then, please share.

All other discussion on this thread is pure BS.

This obsession with 8% growth at whatever cost is beyond ridicule or sympathy. Unhealthy populace cannot sustain 8% & lest you forget, there are enough studies to prove that India already looses on economic growth rate, due to poor healthcare.

 

[ladder]

Welspun Energy forays into solar rooftop space; builds three projects - Economic Times



=====================



Duty exemption on components used for rooftop solar power projects: Ministry of New & Renewable Energy - The Times of India

================

Solar boost: TN tops in rooftop installations

Solar boost: TN tops in rooftop installations - The Times of India

Tamil Nadu accounts for 50 megawatt (MW) of the total 285MW of installed rooftop solar power capacity in India

"A major driver for the adoption of solar power has been the shortage of power. Cost of solar power vis-a-vis diesel gensets used by industries is low, and this has driven up number of solar installations," said Basant Jain, CEO of Mahindra EPC Services, which puts up solar power systems for companies. Power from diesel gensets costs about 15 per unit, while solar power from a captive rooftop system costs about 7 a unit.

Adoption in residences is slow because the concept of net metering where consumers who generate excess power from their rooftop systems can sell the power to the state grid is only now picking up. Across India, only 112MW of residential rooftop capacity is installed driven more by a desire to have green power than because of commercial benefits.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

India needs India-specific solutions. We need not necessarily ape anyone or jump at prospect of cheap/free electricity. That's so, AAP-like.

Anyway, a populace saddled with respiratory issues, & smog-infested cities can do little contribution to GDP in the medium to long-term. So, all this talk of cheap-goodies (here, electricity) is mere hogwash. There are no free lunches & everything comes at a cost. And, if something comes at the cost our health, do we really have to go for it ? Isn't it supposed to be a no-brainer ?

Come on @Singh, think clearly & think of things that matter, beyond numbers.

***********************************************************************

Instead, a gradual transition to renewable sources are is called for & the govt. is already working on it.

In time, the % of electricity generated by coal-based plants would reduce & that produced by Solar/Wind would increase. Substantially. Within our lifetime.

 

[Singh]

8% or 800% ..but, at what cost ? At the cost of what ?

My health ? My children's health ?

Health is wealth- is it redundant now ? Is health not related to well-being <feeling nice & being happy> ?

Or, some self-serving statistics can substitute for our basic need of "feeling good & being healthy". Are you not aware of rampant Cancer incidences in Punjab, Great Noida etc. & their causes ?

Or, you have absolute no concern for the health of millions Indians who live in areas where mining of fossil-fuel happens ? Since, you live so far away from the wretched areas, where the mineral wealth of India lies, makes you impervious to their plight. Why not, for starters, shift to some area where coal-based thermal power plants are based. I have visited enough plants (in UP) to understand this, first-hand.

If you have some data that proves "renewable sources cause comparable/more pollution vis-a-vis fossil-fuels", then, please share.

"Numbers/growth charts, etc. will not compensate for human desire to be healthy". Hence, requesting- If you have some data that proves "renewable sources cause comparable/more pollution vis-a-vis fossil-fuels", then, please share.

All other discussion on this thread is pure BS.

This obsession with 8% growth at whatever cost is beyond ridicule or sympathy. Unhealthy populace cannot sustain 8% & lest you forget, there are enough studies to prove that India already looses on economic growth rate, due to poor healthcare.

Again,

Which country can afford to look after its people well, one which is growing @ 8% or one which is growing @0% ?

Which country can afford to go up the value chain and invest in green, one which is developed and its people rich, or one which is developing and its people poor ?

Be rational !

Look at Developed countries during their industrial ages/growth ages vs Now.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

Again,

Which country can afford to look after its people well, one which is growing @ 8% or one which is growing @0% ?

Which country can afford to go up the value chain and invest in green, one which is developed and its people rich, or one which is developing and its people poor ?

Be rational !

Look at Developed countries during their industrial ages/growth ages vs Now.

Jumping to conclusions & pronouncing quick-fix remedies. Again, very AAP-like. How come making a transition to Solar/Wind energy going to stall our growth at 0% ? How come only coal-based plants alone deliver & sustain 8% growth ?

Tell you what, making a transition to Solar/Wind energy, would have ZERO impact on our growth rate. And, we are lucky to have a govt. that understands this & has a concomitant vision.

A hybrid model is already-in-works & the transition to alternative forms of energy is already in motion. If we really want to out-run & out-grow others, instead of aping others, we need to develop India-specific original solutions. This applies to automobile sector, as well.

 

[Singh]

@TrueSpirit1

Actually let me point out the irony in your posts. You are talking like a typical hippy Jholachap or someone who is supposed to be an AAPtard, and you are also blaming AAP of being a right wing economic party.
I am sure elitist NAC folks would find a lot of resonance in your posts.

I will let @Mad Indian do the honours of explaining to you why cheap and plentiful energy is required for India.

 

[ladder]

@Singh, Nuclear, Coal and Hydro are base power plants. Where as Solar PV/CSP are peak power plant stated to replace diesel, FF, oil fired and other peak power plants and variables in daily load.

Comparing Apples and Oranges. Both are needed.

Coal power plant (thermal power plant) is not a switch on- switch off system. It takes a lot of effort to start and synchronise it to grid.

Now, tell me which is the cheapest means of peak power generation? And then compare it to solar PV/CSP. You will get your answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant

 

[Singh]

@Singh, Nuclear, Coal and Hydro and gas are base power plants. Where as Solar PV/CSP are peak power plant stated to replace diesel, FF, oil fired and other peak power plants and variables in daily load.

Comparing Apples and Oranges. Both are needed.

Coal power plant (thermal power plant) is not a switch on- switch off system. It takes a lot of effort to start and synchronise it to grid.

Now, tell me which is the cheapest means of peak power generation? And then compare it to solar PV/CSP. You will get your answer.

What you are saying is correct but it is applicable in Western/developed countries.

India is a 1.2 billion population country with one of the worlds lowest per capita consumption of electricity. Indians will suck up any electricity you throw at them. The massive loadshedding on a 24*7*365 cycle is ample proof that we don't even produce electricity to meet constant demand.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

@TrueSpirit1

Actually let me point out the irony in your posts. You are talking like a typical hippy Jholachap or someone who is supposed to be an AAPtard, and you are also blaming AAP of being a right wing economic party. I am sure elitist NAC folks would find a lot of resonance in your posts.

Instead of hurling adjectives, why not trying rebuttal of my post, point-wise ? Hurling adjectives indicates you have already understood why transitioning to Solar/Wind energy is not going to stall our growth at 0%. & why a unhealthy populace tends to decelerates the economy.

First, you made outrageous & ridiculous claims of growth stalling at 0% if Wind/Solar energy is resorted to & when confronted, you are using adjectives that best define you alone (as per the popular notion on DFI, run a poll).

I am in sync with the GoI & what the BJP state govt. across India are already doing on ground. It is another matter, the AAP-tards would continue to smell a fish even here. If you think that you know better than GoI (who have real experts at their beck & call), all the best.

I will let @Mad Indian do the honours of explaining to you why cheap and plentiful energy is required for India.

Cheap...Free....Subsidies...cannot get over it...right ? This is what AAP-tardness does to you.

I will continue trying to get this point across without anymore typing:

Remember, nothing comes cheap/free. Cheap itself is a relative term. Part of it you pay in bills & the remaining through other channels I have already pointed out.

Plentiful... what is more plentiful than Sun ? It is supposed to last for next 5 billion years, IIRC. Wind blows all over for free. Mass-scale adoption would brings prices to sustainable levels. Transition is always painful but I would be more than eager to bear that minor pain, if at all, for a better future of our progenies.

All this talk of cheap-goodies (here, electricity) is mere hogwash. There are no free lunches & everything comes at a cost. And, if something comes at the cost our health, do we really have to go for it ?

Instead, a gradual transition to renewable sources are is called for & the govt. is already working on it.

In time, the % of electricity generated by coal-based plants would reduce & that produced by Solar/Wind would increase. Substantially. Within our lifetime. Modi-led GoI would ensure this. I am attuned to Modi's vision.

@Mad Indian If you have some data that proves "renewable sources cause comparable/more pollution vis-a-vis fossil-fuels", then, please share. Request not to repeat yourself.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

@Singh 8% growth is a means (tool) towards an end (objective/goal). It is not the end-goal, in itself.

The end-goal is a employed, productive (healthy/literate/skilled ), stable & prosperous India.

However, unmitigated health-issues (on a mass scale) arising out of unbridled pollution hamper productivity, defeating the end-goal as well as killing the tool (8%) growth.

Forget 8% when fiscal deficit to sustain healthcare expenditure starts ballooning. That is why, GoI has something called Bharat Emisson Standards. which is becoming increasingly stringent as pollution increases & technology improves.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

That is why, all I am asking for:

If you have some data that proves "renewable sources cause comparable/more pollution vis-a-vis fossil-fuels", then, please share.

 

[ezsasa]

One of my friends is setting up a small scale industry he says there is actually no power downtime where he is setting up the plant. Government mandates 4 power holidays per month and that does not mean there is no power during those days but actually that they have to buy private power on those days at 16 Rs per unit.

On the topic of solar energy, govt is encouraging the states to setup solar parks in the lines of Gujarat and Rajasthan. Private players have to set up the plant and deliver the power to the grid in the park. This should save some capital on transmission for private players.

On the topic of roof top solar plants. There are two types isn't it . one is typical individual households where people can connect solar panels to their inverters. Other one being large establishments like movie theatres , shopping malls , stadiums, apartments etc. these one could theoretically partly divert some of their power from solar.

At this point in time I am not seeing much marketing from pvt companies either. They can easily market solar panel roofs a false roof on terraces which will reduce some temperature in the house in summers.